"In praise of women only spaces"

... since the same kind of thing may be said of men-only spaces. But the matter of whether it's right to create these spaces by law or policy, even legally "private" policy (as with women-only hotel floors, etc.), is different. Much different.

i can see lesbian women thinking that the whole damn world should be "women only" and that all men should be shot off via a rocket (invented by men, btw)into the sun and wiped out entirely.it's at the very core of lesbian-feminist ideology, in fact. (and don't think there aren't plans to eventually actually wipe you blokes out of existence, by these looneys, because there are. remember, i am a former militant feminist, i have some inside knowledge).
however, as a straight woman, i simply do not understand the mentality of "ahhh a world without men". uhh.. hello? i LIKE men. i don't want a world without them...!
also, i do not understand why most other women cannot see their own hypocrisy.
i.e. men-only places are sexist, but female-only is not.
as thundercloud used to say: "women have become what they once claimed to oppose."
and i couldn't have agreed more with him. instead of the "sexist pigs" of the past, we now have the "sexist sows" of the present.

i say it again, chaps. it's later than you think. your gender is LITERALLY being OUTLAWED! can you not see this? can you not conceive of it?
do you not care? are you blinded by complacency?
i simply don't understand why the majority of you gents are not involved in some sort of revolution to stop these hags and like-minded women.
to be honest with you, i'm considering leaving this site.
looking back at Thunderclouds old posts from all the way back to the 1990s, i see that things have NOT improved for men. things have only gotten worse, and it seems that will continue to be the case.
i speak out every chance i get. i feel so alone and frustrated in all this i want to cry.
what happened to you men? the men of the WWII generation would have NEVER allowed women to do what we have done in these times. it would NEVER have even gotten this far.
but YOU... YOU men allow it. and continue to do so.
this will be your downfall, i assure you.
WAKE UP, DAMMIT!!!

Most men simply don't understand what is happening and so it isn't registering with them. Perhaps men as individuals are experiencing the effects of feminism and simply think this is the result of their own personal lives not going as well as they would like and they're not connecting the anti-male bigotries in society up to their personal experiences.

Men tend to be raised to view their life experience as being about their choices and the cause-and-effect outcomes thereof, while I think women are more likely to be raised to view these things as coming from outside them. Thus as change agents, feminists found it easy to organize and mobilize in an effort to alter the world (the social world in particular) in which they lived since they saw their lives' experiences being defined by external forces. Only later did men become more involved in feminism (I am thinking now of the 1970s liberation version), though the women's rights movement of the 19th century had more than a few men involved and they were critical allies to the suffragettes. (Men as *the* voting bloc voted to grant women the right to vote simply because the suffragettes made a perfectly valid case for guaranteed voting rights for adult women. It couldn't be ignored by reasonable men and it wasn't.)

Many men since the 1970s, after being greeted by anger and shaming language and behavior from liberationist female feminists, ingested a great deal of disempowering shame. Feminist finger-pointing was, IMO, psychologically equivalent to a never-ending rebuke from "mommy". A lot of men of the time were raised with little daily involvement with their dad since he was at work and so all the child-minding, including disciplining and lecturing, came from females (mom and her fellow stay-at-home mom friends). So even after reaching adulthood, men had the habit of accepting at face value the rebukes of females since their entire lives it had been females doing the rebuking in the process of raising them. It typically was only left to dad to rebuke or punish kids when they were seriously naughty or after reaching a certain age. But the psycho-emotional hooks were in, and hard. "The hand that rocks the cradle rules the world."

Well, lots has changed both in child-rearing ideas/gender roles around it, and people are not being raised the same way nearly as much anymore. Many kids have 2 or more families they are divided between: a family of origin and a step-family. Some even have more then two! The intact nuclear model that includes kids and their parents who stay together at least until the kids grow up is not the norm anymore. But that in itself shows there has been a shift in men's thinking, even though females initiate around 7/10ths of all divorces in the US. That leaves 3/10th being initiated by the husband. Not what you'd expect from members of a class who are categorically dependent emotionally on members of the class they are married to, yes? So men aren't quite the same, either. Our tolerance for putting up with B.S. in a rel'p has really fallen, I have noticed. The MRM itself is an example of this.

As for the political and economic dangers feminism poses to men: Well, things will, I predict, need to get worse before they get better. I get your frustration, Erika, and I agree, it can be very hard to keep your chin up when confronted by sheer denial or even open collaboration with feminists coming from those it has been designed to eventually destroy. But look at things from a more historical perspective: Most causes don't become popular until they do. That is, there is a tipping point at some point. Feminists are at the moment still pretty far from being able to implement their no-more-males-in-humanity agenda. The science isn't there, nor is the necessary mind-set among the typical woman, much less man, to make it happen. It's likely at least two centuries away. (I am allowing for the fact that science and technology will continue to advance rapidly; otherwise, my predicted time-frame would be a lot farther out.) But I agree, they're working on it. And most men (and women) seem blissfully ignorant about what is happening. And, it isn't like the feminists are actively advertising their full agenda, but are doing things to pursue it. The Nazis never announced their mass-murder campaigns to the German public. Why expect feminists to announce their humanity-without-males agenda publicly, too? But eventually, the cat'll be out of the bag for good and feminism will be stopped. It's just all the damage and ruined lives it'll continue to inflict as feminists push their agenda that's to be mourned.

your response makes me feel a bit better.
however the thing that frustrates me the most, is that outside of a few (cathy young, christina hoff summers, chamomile paglia and only a scant few others)women remain not only silent, as a general rule, but complicit, on the matter!
i, for a very long time, believed that we women were the "fair" sex. that men believed in inequality and that women (and women alone) believed in equality.
of course, talking with thundercloud and other m.r.a.s woke me up to the fact that i was dead wrong.
in fact it is WOMEN that allow, tolerate, perpetrate and practice the absolute MOST BRUTAL SEXISM i have ever seen outside the jihadists of Saudi Arabia. (funny how silent far-left-wing feminists are on that subject, eh, what?)
although i am certain there had to be some men that did/do hate women so much that they wish they could slaughter and wipe us all out, as a whole. but i have never once heard a man utter such a thing about women.
on the other hand..., i hear MANY women very openly speak of their hatred of men and quite candidly remark how much fun it would be to maim them sexually and to kill them. and even still others publicly and openly speak of "gendercide".
not too long ago, i actually got up the gumption to confront a small number of women, who were discussing just this issue. laughing and making anti-man jokes, just as a Klans-person makes similar derogatory statements of minorities.
at first they seemed rather taken aback, that a fellow woman would even QUESTION them on this matter.
then they did the whole "oh we're just kidding" excuse.
but when i asked them if a group of MEN were sitting about talking of the wholesale slaughter of the entire female gender, would they not find it in the least bit disturbing? and they became quite confrontational!
and... of course they hurled the usual feminist textbook retorts at me.
"You are a self hating woman" "you're a transgender man" (if you saw me, that accusation is laughable, as i am more feminine than the average woman...)
oh, and my favorite fem-accusation: "You're a conservative, republican woman that wants to end abortion, give men back all the control, bleh bleh bleh", and all that tommyrot! (just for the record i am a democrat! ...but may not be for much longer...) (and yes, just for the record, i am British).
anyways, it looked as if the situation might actually become violent, so i simply shook my head and walked away.
it's these types of things that i keep seeing, hearing and experiencing and the complicit western man that upsets me the most.

yes... "men" have been guilty of sexism. but i never once have seen men be as vitriolically, hatefully, murderously, psychotically, genocidaly sexist towards women, as i have seen my own gender be towards men.
it sickens me.
but what sickens me the most is the men that sit there with that idiotic, sheepish GRIN on their faces while these ghastly and horrific things are said of them AND done to them!
okay, sorry...
i'm done now.