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Greek liner incident shows "men still considered expendable"
Submitted by lance on Wed, 2007-04-11 00:57
Story here.
While men and women are supposed to be consider "equal" under the law, no one seemed to pay any mind to the outrage that occurred last week during the Greek cruise ship disaster: the assumed expendability of the male passengers. While most people probably take for granted that a lot has changed since the days of the Titanic, when it comes to Maritime law, everything is still 1912. When the Greek liner went aground and began to sink, the dreaded "women and children first" slogan was announced over the PA, and men were not allowed to disembark before all women had been saved.
Not only is this sentiment purely sexist in its own right, but it pre-supposes (a) that the lives of women are worth more then the lives of men, (b) that women must be protected by men and therefore it is the duty of men to give up everything - life, rights, etc., and (c) that all of the children on board will have a female parent/guardian available to take care of them on shore while they wait for male parent/guardian to be released.
Of course in this case, few were in any real danger since if worst would have occurred, most could have swam to shore, but I think it indicates a much larger problem: while most people agree that women and men should have equal rights, this belief only seems to apply when it is convenient to women and that chivalry still holds sway.
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Comments
THIS IS DISCRIMINATION...BUT ALSO THIS IS GREECE
In the USA this would not stand.
If this order was given on a US ship in US territorial waters it would be clear discrimination based upon sex.
The maritime rulings should be reviewed to ensure there is no sexual discrimination in who enters the lifeboats when.
oregon dad
Agreed. And I hope you
Agreed. And I hope you would be correct concerning US vs. Greece - but I don't know. I was unable to find anything on the 'net concerning US law. I also couldn't find any statements concerning detailed disaster procedures. Certainly, if I were on this ship there would have been a huge lawsuit in the works the moment my feet hit shore - regardless of country.
Incidentally, your subject seems to suggest that this is less important since this is Greece..Discrimination is discrimination, and I figure if women are allowed to get all hot and bothered by discrimination in Africa, then we can do the same about discrimination in Europe... :)
Men and Children First
I don't know very much about the laws in specific countries. However, I do know this. If this was a country where the policy or law was women last (men and children first), the media reports would not have been so casual. Instead of reporting on the sinking of a ship, we would have seen endless stories about the systemmatic discrimination faced by women in the country.
If anything, women should be last when it comes to life boats. On average, they have more body fat and can survive in the water longer than men (at least cold water).
Actually, that's what shocks me....
After reading this story I searched and searched and searched.... this is the ONLY story that I've found which mentions that the age-old discrimination of women and children first still exists! Fox, CNN, Yahoo... none of the big news sources mentioned it at all!
I hope that Louis Cruise Lines gets their asses sued off! I know that I will never take a cruise with that company, and if I ever do decide to take a cruise, one of my first questions will be the evacuation policy.
If this was bigger news, I'm sure the cruise market would sink like their ship. What man wants to be placed into a situation where his life is secondary to every woman's and child's on board?
We need to make this big news somehow.
anti-male discrimination is tolerated by many
I'd be interested in hearing feminists such as Gloria Steinem, Gloria Alred, and Lis Wiehl comment on the "women and children first" evac policy of some of these cruise companies. I could hear them saying something like "well, these companies, like society in general, are dominated by men who use the old patriarchal practices that limit women's freedom and choices, blah, blah.." They'll always put a spin on the explanation so as to blame men and, of course, protect women from responsibility.
Todays Show
The first place I heard it was on the Today's show Sunday morning when one of the weekend anchors was interviewing two survivors. The anchor glossed over this issue but underscored how similar to the Titanic it was. Personally, I was amazed...I didn't think people did that anymore!
Incidentally, I seem to remember this past summer during the Lebanese war that Greek ships showed up to rescue western "women and children" as well (again, as if western men caught in the fray were any less deserving).
Perhaps this is a Greek thing, or perhaps this is just the way it is the world over and we in the west have so few disasters anymore that it doesn't come up anymore?
I'm 100% in favor of gender equality - as long as it is 100% equal!
From what I've heard...
From what I've heard, Greece is still very old fashioned. So this may just be the way things are there. Chauvinism still exists there because it actually has a logical place in society.
logical?
I just wonder how many men in the US would do the same? In fact, I wonder how many men (and women for that matter) in the US think that this is the way it should be? Probably a large percentage (though I do not know that for sure since I don't know if there has ever been a poll). I find that chivalry, and the expectation of chivalry, is alive and well in the US.
not really
Most men are stronger and can probably swim longer than women, so it does make a bit of sense.
But yes, it is disgusting. It should have been "people who can't swim first"..
Fat floats
I think you're mistaken N.J. Women have more fat stores (insert irreverent remark here), which is bouyant. Men, with more muslce mass, are less bouyant. If anyhting, treading water in a male body would be more difficult.
Even if men of similar age
Even if men of similar age were better swimmers, shouldn't older men go before younger women? I doubt a guy in his 40's can swim as long as a woman in her 20's.
It gets even better...
Searching for more information on the rescue, interesting the many versions but it appears most have gone out of their way to not mention the women and children first issue.
Here's a version with a 16 year old female passenger punching a 40 year old man to get his life jacket for her friend because "he was 40 and we were kids" and then punching another man for his life jacket for herself. That her story is told and written indicates approval of such action. Talk about entitlement...
http://channels.netscape.ca/news/article.adp?id=20070409083909990007
Shameful
That's absolutely shameful, Kirk.
I wonder how she'd feel if she found out that one of the men she punched to get his life jacket was the 45 year old father that's still missing...
I mean, the guy might have had a medical condition...
And she comes off sounding proud of herself... so proud that she did it twice, and gloats about it.
Not sure why this thing
Not sure why this thing bothers me soo much but it does - maybe because these kinda things only appear when the worse things happen and then it's as though it's excusable. Probably something to do with why I cannot sit through a Titanic movie: watching heart wrenching affairs and then being told that my heart is considered as a lower life form.
Here's the email I sent to Louis Cruises:
Hello,
I couldn't help but notice that when it comes to an emergency, certain lives are considered expendible:
http://channels.netscape.ca/news/article.adp?id=20070409083909990007
The 16 year old who punches 40 year old men for their life jackets I'm sure has not been charged with any crime. How do you justify taking payment from 40 year old people when they are regarded as second class - do you tell your customers that are male and over 40 that they are second class?
Do you tell 40 year old males that may have a heart condition that a 16 year old fit female deserves the life jacket more? I assume she must be fit if she can punch 40 year old males with impunity.
Why in the world would I recommend, let alone go myself, on a cruise where I'm considered a lesser person when things go wrong. Is my pain not as important? my blood not as red? Where or what are you to stand in such incredible judgement.
How this incident was handled shall be remembered as long as I live, and it shall color all that I touch. Hate bounces.
Address?
Do you happen to have the address you used? I'd be happy to add my words, and if they all go to the same place, it might make a dent (probably not...but...).