Ectogenesis: Will Artificial Wombs Help Men Fight the Child Custody War?

Submitted by Matt on Tue, 2014-08-19 23:22

Article here. It so pains me to quote myself as follows (LOL, yeah, right, you guys believe *that*...):

'For a woman, having children without including their father in the equation post-conception has several routes. Artificial insemination is one, but the less expensive routes can still be pursued: have sex with a man/men "casually" and tell them they needn't use condoms because she's using birth control and STDs aren't a concern based on her last visit to the doctor. A less astute man may believe her and become a father without ever knowing it. For financing, she can file for "public assistance", or pursue a child support order, assuming she is ready to tell the father that he is one.

Men have no such options. If a woman with a child is married to the father, there's always no-fault divorce and the high likelihood she'll get custody (with child support) and possibly alimony, either indefinitely or at least for some time. Wilful paternity fraud is possible, especially in places where men have no right to a paternity test or if actual paternity becomes irrelevant after some time period. Several options for her, but not for him.

So unsurprisingly, ectogenesis appeals to men seeking a safer path to parenthood. But before concluding this, consider a few things.

An artificial uterus is a device, not a right. As long as women can still do to men what has been described above and men's recourse is either limited or non-existent, men's rights in this area remain unchanged. Ectogenesis does not provide men the right to a "paper abortion", a legal right to renounce parental rights (such as they are) and obligations (a lot of those) within a given time after a man is named the father by the mother or the state, as does women's option to abort. Not much changes for men, rights-wise, with ectogenesis.'

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I was shocked to see someone describe how women can trick a man into fatherhood and how men have no choice in the matter until I realized who was writing the article. Outside of MRA circles, any mention that women might mislead a man into fatherhood is verboten. The standard view on pregnancy today is that it's something men do to women. A woman doesn't choose to get pregnancy or risk getting pregnant by having sex. It's simply something the man does to her.

Of course, the man has no control over what happens to a woman's body after he has sex. He cannot control the sperm or its interaction with the egg or anything else. Saying he alone is responsible is simply being dishonest. Biologically, it very much takes two.

The woman, on the other hand, has a lot of control over what happens to her body and to the sperm, thanks to the many forms of birth control. Of course, sometimes these don't work--but mostly they do, or women would quit buying them. But despite all this, and the fact insurance now provides free BC pills to women, if a woman gets pregnant, it's not her fault--it's his. He caused her to get pregnant. She had nothing to do with it. In fact, she is entitled to consequence-free sex. Ergo, if she gets pregnant, it's his fault, not hers. Even when some people say "it takes two," what they really mean is the man did it to her. The phrase is used to emphasize HIS responsibility for what happened, not their joint responsibility.

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Submitted by el cid on Wed, 2014-08-20 14:50

I am not supportive of anything that inhibits the formation of 2-parent biological families wether it "benefits" men or women. (I put "benefits" in quotes because I think in the long run the destruction of families harms society)

The artificial womb could greatly impact the value of women if it allows men to become single parents, however it doesn't address the biggest hurdle...how do they get an egg? Women don't generally give those away easily. Because of "supply and demand," eggs are far more valuable compared to sperm, plus there is the issue of extracting them. Men will have to pay a hefty price to be single parents. Even with an artificial womb, the price wont be cheap. Nature can always do things cheaper compared to the artficial version.

PS- just realized this article is written by Matt Campbell. Congrats Matt!! (I didn't pay attention to your opening sentence about how it "pains me to quote myself" - now it all makes sense)

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Submitted by Kris on Wed, 2014-08-20 15:28

than ectogenesis that is happening here. the up and coming world of robots, artificial intelligence, artificial this and that, and all that star-trek/wars/baby stuff is happening. its coming very fast as things come and go. there are already machines that assist humans in obtaining that 'lovin place' w/o the possibility of pregnancy.

women/fem's/other guys make fun of males who seek out this sort of thing, but as one would expect, females of the species have had 99,000 different types to choose from for decades. its not really unlike that old woody allen movie where he was hiding from the cops when he got zapped into the future, and the only lonely phone booth handy to hide was a sex machine. if memory serves about the third time coming out he was easily apprehended. what a guy.

anyway, my point being that guys are, of course going to get screwed by the system every way feminist lawyers paid for by our tax $$ (v.a.w.a., and such) can arrange. I'm guessing our best shot in coming out of this w/o winding up paying ALL the bills (present and future) as usual is to demand equal access to all new science. we are still humans, right? we still have G_d given rights, don't we?

as for me personally? you'll have to ask my robot, and she only speaks Japanese unless I'm around, by my command no less!

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Submitted by daveinga on Wed, 2014-08-20 17:33

Funny you should've mentioned the robots issue. When suggesting cloning plus ectogenesis could make for a much easier way to create a stronger army/slave "race" than without these technologies, I deliberately left out the Star Wars-like "battle 'droid" idea. I did so because whether gov'ts will feel comfortable enough to release artificially intelligent autonomous fighting machines onto a battlefield before ectogenic technogies combined with gene splicing and cloning allow for the creation of slave armies with all desire to disobey (or even question) orders genetically modified out of them remains to be seen. And, it wasn't really pertinent to the point I was making: That when going to enslave others, people have been a lot readier to see men enslaved than women. But as for job-eliminating, labor-saving device invention and evolution goes, that die is cast. And, it's already cast farther than most realize, and we're just getting started. Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU

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Submitted by Matt on Thu, 2014-08-21 03:42

catchy, huh?

I think people in the u.s. are already well on their way to loving robots, in diverse ways. the number of unemployed is what, 110 mil? nobody to replace there. and who doesn't have a bot communicator in his/her pocket? atm, ebt, credit, debit, you name it.

I worked 7 years in the space program at CCAFS & KSC and I can see where bots will soon be in space in a big way. actually, our military has been launching bots into space for decades. every time a shuttle launched, at least 1-2 military payloads went up, and more safely (see Delta launch vehicle). I've oft wondered if some of the sci-fi shows weren't just to condition us for the truth. I believe there were a couple of shows about that too.

this one just recently retired, so its a moot point for me about the employment future for humans. good video btw. however, if there ever were generations ready to accept somebody/something else taking over their jobs, its these generations. bevis and butthead have finally found their niche. party on garth!

I just want to live longer now to see where all this is heading. I already have new eyes (20/20 after optical implants + u.v. protection built in) and a new knee. there are new drugs being developed all the time that offer stiff competition for nature's old ways. bf can only do so much? i'll smoke him, no problem. another up and coming area of development, augmented humans. how long before we have replacement bodies to maybe help reap the benefits of the next round of robot love? ha! strange times indeed.

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Submitted by daveinga on Thu, 2014-08-21 19:55