Overwhelming Victory for the Motion "Men Are Finished" at Intelligence Squared U.S. Debates

Submitted by anthony on Wed, 2011-09-21 21:01

Article here. Excerpt:

'NEW YORK, Sept. 21, 2011 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- Last night at NYU'sskirball Center audience members gave an overwhelming victory to the team defending the proposition "Men Are Finished." According to the final votes, Dan Abrams and Hanna Rosin convinced 46% of the audience to change their minds over the course of the evening, winning the Oxford style debate by a landslide (See full numbers below). Their argument: as a result of a changing economy and shifting cultural values, men, who were once seen as the dominant sex, are now in a deep slide to number two status.

The resolution was opposed by Christina Hoff Sommers and David Zinczenko, who argued that men still hold more political and economic power, and that, although women have caught up or surpassed men in some regards, this does not mean that men as a whole, are finished.'

Note: Website with details here, including downloadable transcript and video clips.

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Comments

The outcome was a foregone conclusion. Nymphotropism knows no bounds.

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Submitted by Matt on Wed, 2011-09-21 22:56

Ok, so we're severely disadvantaged. Where do we get help?

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Submitted by charlie on Wed, 2011-09-21 23:05

Eliminate government entitlements for women. Also, its time for women and mangina's to show men some respect. I should point out most women respect men, unfortunately there's a small minority engaging in a gender war.

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Submitted by anthony on Thu, 2011-09-22 00:06

....how many of the people in the audience were women studies majors? I read the transcript and thought Christina Hoff Sommers did a great job.

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Submitted by anthony on Thu, 2011-09-22 00:07

Cut the throat of man one day and woman will find her throat bleeding the next day. And she won't understand why.

Or in other words: Men and women are interdependent. Destroy men and you destroy women. Destroy women and you destroy men.

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Submitted by canaryguy on Thu, 2011-09-22 01:23

Feminists keep talking about the "war of the sexes," "men beating women," "men raping women," etc. Feminists love to think in polarized ways, like it's either one end of the spectrum or the other. Either "women have finished men" or "men have finished women." They also speak of all men, like we are all the same, just as they speak of all women, like they are all the same.

Sorry, the truth is more complicated than that. Only emotional children insist on such simplistic explanations for real world situations. And the feminists promoting this ridiculous debate are among those emotional children in adult bodies. The truth is neither sex is "finished." The truth is that every person is different.

The debate should have been focused on "why is it that women can't compete with men without all the legal, sociological, and governmental assistance they get?" When one considers all the profoundly influential help that women get these days, at least in America, help that men don't get, of course they're doing better. But that doesn't mean that men are "finished." But NO, we can't admit that women aren't able to do it without all these preferential treatments... that would be TABOO.

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Submitted by redwoodwriter on Thu, 2011-09-22 04:47

Feminists (like most women) will continue to bleat about 'sexism against women' while triumphantly promoting the 'men are finished' nonsense.

Why do you think we need more encouragenent for girls to surpass boys at school when they already do? Why do we need more 'commissions for women's health' when they already live longer than men, have a better cancer survival rate and have better health outcomes? It's all so women can have it all, to be the little victims while claiming we all live in a Woman's World with all the priveliges that brings.

Saying this may not make me popular here but I've always thought women are stupid and sexist and no man should have any respect for them.

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Submitted by sirprince on Thu, 2011-09-22 13:08

No doubt you've heard feminists say, in a prideful way, that women are compassionate and loving, in ways that men cannot be. The continuous focus exclusively on the needs of women shows that just the opposite is the truth when it comes to feminists. Men care for others, think about others, include others. Feminists do not care about anyone other than women.

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Submitted by redwoodwriter on Thu, 2011-09-22 15:06

Why are MRAs against this motion? Isn't that partly what we're saying, that mare *are* finished in many ways? I'm glad the audience changed its mind. Most of them probably started out with the "men have all the power" mentality, and afterwards realized it's not that simple, men are actually getting screwed. As I read the comments here I can't held thinking I'm misreading something. As an MRA I'm pleased with this outcome. What did I miss here?

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Submitted by Marc A. on Thu, 2011-09-22 19:53

To Marc A. -

Yes, for people to tell the truth about what's happening to men, that is good and long overdue. Unless the truth is known, we can't fix what is broken.

But I object to the way the conversation is framed by feminist-dominated media types. It is overly dramatic and needlessly disparaging about men (for example using the word "finished"). I object to the way that feminists are endlessly setting up adversarial contests between men and women. I object to the way that they, like George W. Bush, think in dualities (if you're not for us, you're against us). I object to the way that they over-simplify in order to gain an advantage.

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Submitted by redwoodwriter on Thu, 2011-09-22 20:24

The problem with the discussion, as mentioned, is the hostile, gloating nature of it. It is just outright insulting to be told "men are finished". Worst yet, is that the blame is laid, not on the inequities we men suffer due to gender politics, but on men and masculinity itself. The debate has argued that it is men's inability to adapt that is causing their downfall. This is bad for several reasons...

First, it's not true, men have been adapting for millions of years, and much of our technology is based on the very nature of man's adaptability.

Secondly, it denies the fact that what we are suffering is a result of anything in the current systems of law, government and social engineering that's been going on. If the cause for men's issues is blamed on men rather than the system, nobody will look to the system to implement change. Instead, we will be told, as we have been for decades, that men and masculinity needs to change to a more feminist based ideal.

Thirdly, by claiming it is men's fault and not that of the system, they will be able to maintain they are discriminated against by the system and demand even further changes to benefit women, but since men's issue aren't based on discrimination by the system (since men are failing due to their own inabilities), no changes or considerations for men need be considered. IE, men are failing, but we need to continue changing politics towards feminist gains.

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Submitted by Kratch on Thu, 2011-09-22 21:11