Spanking, DV, and anti-father laws

The article meanders a bit so I wasn't sure. It seems the author is trying to correlate the breakdown of intrafamily discipline with the loss of the father from the home due to a legal system that has taken sides with feminism, which has given a mother all the tools she needs *for any reason*, to exclude the father from the home via easily-obtained restraining orders based on virtually any pretext, proven or not. I suppose he has a good point: historically, dad has been the disciplinarian and feminism asserts that this kind of disciplining coming from dad is either abuse or superfluous, and that a mother can (or should) be able to provide the amount of discipline needed to raise law-abiding, self- and others-respecting citizens.

And like the author, based on my own observations, I have seen that in families where there is no disciplinarian (of either sex), you do indeed get kids who are spoiled rotten and may never reach anything like adult maturity. Social scientists have already made the observations: children in families without a dad or dad-like man in them are much more likely to get into all manner of trouble than those without a dad. The correlation is undeniable.

Many people have an emotional response to such an assertion, myself included. No one likes The Heavy in the family, at work, etc., esp. when they go too far in their setting of rules and meting of punishments. (How many of us have been or feel we have been abused by an authority figure?) This is why police, even ones who are behaving exactly as they should be, are frequently the targets of resentment when in fact without them, things would devolve into lawlessness pretty quickly -- though flash back a few decades and I am not so sure that would be true. Nonetheless if people, even adults, have no checks on their behavior, then the rest of us are not safe. So yes, we need The Heavies around. We don't like it, but we need it.

As a father, I have one rule, there is no need to spank. Spanking is the easy way out. I have found out the good lessons to be learned are not with the hand but with the heart.

I find screaming children in the grocery store or elsewhere are either neglected and the parent(s) is so used to it them behaving this way or they seem to not care. As I have worked with 5 to 12 year olds in drama camps, the screaming child usually needs to be picked up and held. I think the same could be done in the store.

It's interesting when I'm in my camps, I find the screaming child pick them up and talk to them. Being in a situation where corporal punishment is not only a bad idea it is illegal, I have found that threatening children doesn't work, I've fired people over it, I have fired counselors for hitting or pushing a kid. If it doesn't work here, how can it work at home.

Talking is one thing, I had and still believe in no corporal punishment. It's not needed. It's hard to be a parent and it take a lot of work. I truly believe the saying you have to pass a driving test you should have to pass a parent test, though that is truly a stretch and allows governments to dictate rather than the people. I'll keep our alternative. However, I wouldn't mind fining people if they don't pass the required exam or refuse to take it.

Spanking is not the answer. I went through my teen years being totally afraid of my father, unnecessarily as I found out later. (I finally stood up to him) and it caused problems. It's about what is right and how to teach.

Here's another issue, most parents see the need to spank their children comes from the times when they are in the store and the parent is not doing anything. It's these types of parents (usually) we don't want spanking their children because they take would take it to the other extreme.

Another thought, if the parents showed a little more respect to the rest of the world wouldn't it be teaching them an aspect of life we could all use a little more of.

Discipline is, IMO, the hardest aspect of parenting. Although I don't see it as a gender issue, as I have seen single mothers do a good job and married fathers do a poor job, and vise-versa.

I frequently see single fathers go soft on discipline, probably because their time with their children is limited and discipline is not fun and it is time consuming. I also see single parents of both genders undermine each other's discipline or go soft to try and become the favorite parent. (kids want to go to the home of the least discipline and lowest expectations, which is a concern of mine when shared parenting is discussed).

I do agree with the article that spanking and other forms of "old school" punishments does not deserve all the negativity. There is a time and place for those types of punishments as long as it is done correctly (IMO, that means when reasoning with the child is not working or not an option and when it is done with warning and with control).

I also attended a private school that used old school tactics (I literally had my mouth washed out with soap when a teacher caught me swearing - I lived through it, and never swore much after that)

However, when physical punishment is applied incorrectly by the parents you get kids that obey out of fear instead of out of respect. I know men that were beaten when they were young and obeyed their parent(s)out of fear. As they grew bigger and stronger and the parent became older and weaker, the fear was gone, and the kids were out of control as they became teenagers.

I think good or bad parenting is usually passed down from parents to children. I don't see one gender being any better than the other. I also know couples have broken up over parenting/discipline styles. It is definitely a subject that should be discussed before having children.

I very much agree with what Kris has described.I've always seen physical punishment as not needed unless other methods have failed outright. And so it bothers me to see parents resort to it as the first line of discipline, or following a short "stop that" and little else.

I also find the idea of picking a child up every time they have a temper tantrum as subservient to the child. That is often what they want, is to be given the parents primary attention, and to teach them they will get that attention every time they act out will only encourage that behaviour more.

My Father spanked me twice. Both times I very much deserved it, because I was doing what I wasn't supposed to be, was told not to, was warned, etc etc etc. I didn't fear my father for those spankings, because I never saw it as abuse, simply as a punishment ritual that followed other attempts at discipline, a ritual I could avoid by my own choices.