The New Double-Standard

I noticed in Nemko's article, that there is a link to the National Organization For Men

www.orgformen.org

. Moderator, should this have it's own topic also?

-Axolotl

I wondered when the heavy-hitters of the men's movement would get wise to NOW and do this. It will never receive public funding, of course, but it's fantastic to see Farrell, Nemko and Sacks working together. I thought of volunteering to write press releases for them (as Nemko is asking in the guestbook), but I'm a Canadian, and I suspect they're after an American.

This web page has been up for over a year and they have not even gotten all the lonks working yet.

Yes, all three of the men responsable for this web page have contributed huge amounts to the Men's movement but they do not seem interested in making the National organization for men work.

They are not accepting memberships (therefore are not collecting money to fund operations), and are hardly recruiting. for it to work it needs us to fund it and it needs more then three people working towards the goals.

But as nothing more then a web page, the National organization for men is almost useless.

I noticed most of the links are dead. I am wondering if these guys are too busy holding down jobs and/or writing, to really have the time to invest in another project.
Also I will mention, that that one book of Farrell's called "Why Men Are The Way They Are" sounds suspicious to me. I have not read the whole book but have seen a few excerpts. He says men are "afraid to commit". I consider this idea about men, to be part biology and part women's viewpoint. I think that there is something wrong with most women in general, that men do not want to commit to them. I think this operates on an almost unconscious level, which is why nobody is asking the question, "What is it about women, that makes it hard for men to want to commit to them?". Of course in today's climate, wording the question that way would invoke a great amount of rage, which is another reason no-one is asking it.
But I am not a psychologist.
I don't know, does Farrell have a background in psychology?? Maybe he has overstepped his bounds by writing this book.
-Axolotl

"Why Men Are The Way They Are" is an *excellent* men's issues book -- sympathetic to boys and men, respectful of them, and most of all incredibly insightful. It finally explained to me, in clear and useful language, many of the frustrating pressures and expectations about maleness, masculinity, and manhood that I could never explicitly identify on my own -- I just knew that they were wrong: unfair, biased, harmful, and so on.

I have heard many other men, and even the few women (intactivists like myself) whom I have convinced to read it, say the same thing. It clarifies and makes sense of *so much* that we could tell was just *wrong*, but without being able to identify why or how.

I can't recommend it highly enough. It is categorically *not* a book about what's 'wrong' with men, and how they should be 'fixed'; it's a book about how and why the behavioral and self-defining *role* in society assigned to men continues to exist and be recreated and reinforced in each successive generation.

Is it possible that the excerpt you read about men being "'afraid' to commit" was being taken out of its correct context? AFAIR, when Farrell talks about men being "'afraid' to commit", it's on the grounds of the massive expectations others apply to them and which they themselves have internalized regarding their ability to provide for a family, and that he is therefore *validating* their feelings.

I assure you that WMATWTY is *not* a book in the usual man-bashing male-blaming female-chauvanist model, and that I believe *everyone* -- not just men's issues advocates and activists and supporters, but fathers, mothers, children, counselors, pundits, politicians, *everyone* -- should read it at least once. Of all the books I've read on the subjet, it makes the most, best sense of the apparently senseless.

I figured the book as a whole couldn't be too bad, I'm just a little suspicious when anyone tries to tell me 'why I am the way I am'. Remember the Venus and Mars book? Books like that that really strike a chord with the public, that get the reader thinking "I knew this all along!", can have an almost hypnotic effect. The author is riding a wave..but the human psyche is extremely complex. Why are people still reading Freud's "Interpretation of Dreams" 100 years later, while Venus and Mars is probably out of print?

I'm not saying Farrell is "wrong" in some general sense. I'm sure he makes some valid points. Do you know if he has a background in psychology?

-Axolotl

P.S: As I now recall, the phrase "[Farrell explains] why men are afraid to commit..", was actually in a critique I was reading, extolling the virtues of the book.

axolotl... you silly optimist!

You are sadly overestimating the linguistic tendencies of the American public.

I'd be willing to bet that less than 5% have ever heard of Freud, and less than 1% have ever read one of his primary works.

If you asked our President who Freud was and why he mattered, George Jr. would smirk and say --- "Tony Snow... what's the spin on this?"

"Interpretation of Dreams" is a textbook for our current permanent War on Terror.

(Hint --- Don't ever go down into the basement! Nothing good ever happens there!)

;-)

Also, 100% of feminists have heard of Freud, and less than 0.0001% have read any of his works. These feminists then spread the propaganda that Freud was 'against women', that his whole system was sexist, that he helped found the patriarchy etc.
(Actually Freud maintained that men as well as women, could be hysterics - which might explain Bert's posts of late!)
-Axolotl

Don't forget that feimists also call Freud a pedophile and supporter of inscest. They really don't like him much at all.

-- the femelitists absolutely hate and despise him and his views, writing, and other efforts, to the extent of calling him a supporter of pedophilia and incest as well, among other nasty things. Just try googling his name.

As to his background, see http://www.warrenfarrell.org/WarrenFarrell/index.html and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Farrell .

I just looked in the local library catalog, and wonder of wonders, they have two of his books! I reserved them and am going to pick them up as soon as I can. The next county over has a few more, I'm going to have to find someone with a card.

In an earlier post in this thread, I wondered what Warren Farrell's qualifications were in the field of psychology. This post is in no way an attempt to undermine Farrell, who has very impressive qualifications (I checked the links that were provided on this subject). His web site indicates that he has taught at the California School of Professional Psychology. I did some checking around on this school, and found evidence that there have been significant problems there (not just problems common to any institution). The page I found that info on did not appear to be politically or idealogically motivated. Perhaps Farrell was not teaching at the school during the time frame in question (late 90's/early 2000's). The page did not say anything about Farell or any other teacher in particular. But the quality and ethics of the institution is/was in question.
I am not going to post the link to this information unless at least 2 or 3 other male members want me to. Otherwise feminists who patrol this site and others like it, will take advantage of the information to discredit Farrell. (No doubt some of them have already found out anyway).
I guess my point here is that going back to what I said earlier, the human psyche is very complex. Naturally I am suspicious when someone wants to tell me 'why I am the way I am', because it sounds overly simplistic. I know that authors want to sell a book, so using a title like that is often a valid way to go, as long as the ideas presented in the book are sound and the author is qualified. But in the long run, if Farrell has overstepped his bounds by probing into psychology, regardless of the issue raised above about the California School, it will do damage to the cause of men. I read Why Men Earn More and I thought it was great, largely because it quoted lots of studies to support its ideas. I have not actually looked inside the Why.. book, but will check it out in the next several days to see if it quotes equally valid studies.
In the meantime I recommend reading "Spreading Misandry" by Nathanson and Young. It goes into the COMPLEX issues involved in..you guessed it..spreading misandry:)

-Axolotl