Abusegate Alert: Senate Judiciary Committee schedules VAWA hearing for May 5 at 10 AM ET

I've seen Gelles go back and forth depending on his mood or who he's talking to. About 6 years ago I saw him give a great lecture in San Diego. He tiptoed a little and sometimes didn't come out straight unless asked, but he did tell the truth. A few years later a reporter told me Gelles says men *aren't* less likely than women to report the violence. So I emailed Gelles about it. He answered by distinguishing "criminal" and "non-criminal" DV in a way that, to me, wasn't co-herent and, even if he meant reported versus non-reported DV, *still* didn't make sense to me and *certainly* wasn't how the reporter was representing what Gelles said. I ran the email exchange by another researcher we all know but whom I won't name, and he wasn't clear on why Gelles was saying it this way either. I just now dug up the email exchange. Here it is:

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Richard,

I was just interviewed by a reporter, Jan, from KFWB about male victims. During the interview, when I said male victims are less likely than female victims to report the violence to police, the interviewer said "I just spoke with Richard Gelles and he says men aren't any less likely than women to report it to police." I asked her if she was sure
that you said that. She then backpeddled a little and said she could be wrong and she'll listen again to the interview to be sure. I told her I doubt you said that because your research conflicts with police reports and that, in your 1999 article, "The Hidden Side of Domestic Violence," you stated that it's a fair assumption that both genders report female-on-male DV less than male-on-female DV. I sent her a copy of your article and quoted it. I also told her that if it turns out you did say that, to please go to people like Dutton, Straus, etc. who will say otherwise, and I gave their contact info.

I'm writing just to let you know this and to ask whether she is representing you correctly when she says that. I know that many advocates have misused your statements to downplay the frequency of male victims, and even the severity. So I'm concerned about this. It's possible she heard you say men are not less likely to report it on a sociological survey, and she thought you meant to police. Or it could be another misunderstanding. I do not believe you would say that men are as likely to report it to police as women are. But if I'm wrong I'd like to hear it from you, and to hear why you think that is the case. Thank you.

Marc

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Fri, 7 Dec 2007 12:09:45

Marc

What I find in our data is the following:

Men under-report offending
Men accurately report victimization
Women under-report Victimization
Men accurately report victimization.

This accounts for our findings that women are more violent then men in terms of non-criminal violence. It means that in terms of non-criminal domestic violence men and women are about equal in perpetration and victimization.

Rich
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12:16 PM 12/7/2007

Richard,

How does this explain the difference between police reports showing about 25% of the victims being male, and sociological research, such as yours and Staus', showing men and women initiate physical domestic violence at about the same rate? Does what you say below conflict with your article your write in 1999 where you said "It is reasonable to suppose both men and women underreport female-to-male partner violence in a crime survey, as they do not conceptualize such behavior as a crime"?

Marc

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Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 12:29:03 -0500

Marc,

Police reports are "criminal violence." Men and women both underreport domestic victimization in crime surveys.

Rich
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12:44 PM 12/7/2007

Richard,

Yes but in non-crime surveys, purely sociological surveys, like your NFVS, men and women show about the same rate of perpetration of physical violence, and that perpetration is criminal, whether it's reported or not. You stated all of this in your 1999 article. It seems to me what you're saying below, that men and women are equally likely to report their victimization to police, totally contradicts everything you said in the past, including in your 1999 article.

If police reports show 75%/25%, but non-crime sociological surveys show 50/50 again and again for physical violence, then clearly men are less likely than women to report to police. Isn't that what you, Straus, Dutton and others have been finding all along?

Marc
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Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 12:53:51 -0500

Marc,

Actually, our surveys show MORE perpetration by women.

Rich

___________

Richard,

Ok. So, given that result, then, if the crime resports show more perpetration by men, then that means men are less likely to report to police than women...correct?

Marc
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[No answer from Gelles]

The only way his statements could make a lick of sense is if he didn't understand what you were saying and didn't really respond to you... your questions and points were clear I don't see how he could have missed that. I also assume the woman was talking about the same thing you were (the relative rates of males reporting of victimization to the police as compared to females).

There is clearly an error (redundancy and incompletemess) in his first post. his posts just don't make obvious sense. Focusing on his non-criminal domestic violence survey, women alone reported rates of male to female perpetrators similar to the whole of those surveyed. thus there is no "significant"difference in the reporting by men and women on the ratio of DV towards men and women. For all I know the absolute numbers could be higher when DV is reported by one gender but the ratios are similar for each gender reporting DV on "social surveys". Both genders especially underreport DV towards men in crime surveys thus giving an false impression of the ratio of male victims to female victims.

maybe you could ask him explain more

So Corrupt. The name of the hearing, all the people speaking (except possibly Gelles) are clearly hardcore feminists with obvious ideological and career biases toward keeping the VAWA funding at a max. Wow.

OK, so I read "The hidden side of domestic violence: male victims" and here are the relevant statements he made in that paper.

"I conducted the First National Family Violence survey in 1976. The survey interviewed a nationaly representative sample of 2,143 individual family members... the rate of adult female-to-adult male intimate violence was the same as the rate of male-to-female violence. Not only that, but the rate of abusive female-to-male violence was the same as the rate of male-to-female violence...We had developed an instrument, "The Conflict Tactics Scale." The measurement met all the scientific standard for reliability and validity" (however the survey did not look at the outcomes or context of the domestic violence)

"Murray Straus and I conducted the Second National Family Violence Survey in 1986. We attempted to address the two methodological criticisms of the Conflict Tactics Scales. In 1986 we interviewed a nationally representative sample of 6,002 individual family members over the telephone. This time we asked about the outcomes of violence and the process and context...we found that the reported rates of violence toward children and violence toward women had declined... Female-to-male violence showed no decline and still was about as frequent and severe as male-to-female violence... we found that women were as likely to initiate the violence as were men.

"In order to correct for a possible bias in reporting, we reexamined our data looking only at the self-reports of women. The women reported similar rates of female-to-male violence compared to male-to-female, and women also reported they were as likely to initiate the violence as were men."

"My colleague Murray Staus has found that every study among more than 30 describing some type of sample that is not self-selective (...) has found a rate of assault by women on male partners that is about the same as the rate by men on female partners. The only exception to this... The National Crime Victims Survey and National Survey of Violence against Women both asses partner violence in the context of a crime survey. It is reasonable to suppose both men and women underreport female-to-male partner violence in a crime survey, as they do not conceptualize such behavior as a crime."

IN SUMMARY he says that:

female-to-male partner violence is as frequent as male-to-female partner violence.

women are as likely as men to initiate the violence.

(in the survey) women alone reported similar rates of female-to-male violence compared to male-to-female violence.

all 30+ studies describing surveys that are not self-selective (self selective being non-representative and unscientific) say that female-to-male partner violence is about the same as male-to-female partner violence.

the only exception to this is a survey that asses partner violence in the context of a crime survey. But "both men and women underreport female-to-male partner violence in a crime survey, as they di not conceptualize such behavior as a crime."