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by Davidadelong on 10:35 PM March 17th, 2006 EST (#1)
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If a Man does not want to procreate, then he should have the choice. By allowing Women only to have rights in regards to giving birth, it sets the stage for what we have now. The laws should be inclusive of Men. Either they accept the reponsibility as a Father, or they don't, period. I guess the vampires that suck the life blood from all of us dumb People would be out of a job if real EQUALITY was implemented. To them I say the hanging in the town square seems applicable. Better than a stake through the heart as they do to the make believe vampires that suck the life blood from society. Anyway, Men have rights, and so do Women. I wish they would quit pitting us against each other so that we could aget a life! "It is a good day to die!"
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by thinker on 08:27 AM March 18th, 2006 EST (#2)
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What i would say is ....
I can never expect women to be as responsible as men.
The rubbish of equality should be buried .
Equality of men and women is not possible and this is by no way sexist.
But in today's world , if you tell this truth you will be labelled a misogynist and not be taken seriously.
So the best way is to give these women and their supporters true equality.
This is a small step in that direction ,i hope so.
Only than can people realise the futility of trying to achieve equality.
The Bible never says a husband and wife are equals. It clearly says that the wife ought to be subservient to her husband.
If you find the Bible as sexist.....well than practise true equality and you'll know.
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by Davidadelong on 10:18 AM March 18th, 2006 EST (#3)
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No slight intended Thinker, but I don't believe in the bible, any bible to be precise. Equality under the law does not and should not enter into how People decide to live their lives at home. there are many Women that want to be led by the Man in their life, and many Men that want to be led by the Woman in their life. Being told how to live by a book is nothing more than control, institutionalised,and enforced through dogma. I have treated every Woman in my life as an equal, although I stated from the beginning that I was the tie breaker in so far as business decisions etc. I know that Men are second class citizens in this country, and I know that the major church groups had a part in this happening. The concept of oppressing one group to raise another up is a concept initiated by slave owners for control, and it still exists today. Just a thought Thinker.
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by Roy on 11:58 AM March 19th, 2006 EST (#15)
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I have to agree with Davidadelong's agnostic wisdom.
My ex-wife converted from Buddhism to Baptist evangelical (cultish?) faith after our divorce.
Apparently she enjoys being told exactly what to think, though her born-again persona has a fetish for Victoria Secrets frilly underwear.
What has amazed me the most is how none of this chameleon transformation has caused her the least cognitive dissonance.
Have you noticed that women believe everything they believe, even when their beliefs are totally contradictory?
What a sublime quality.
I could sleep well too if I could just find that feminine lobotomy-switch! ;-0
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by Luek on 11:24 AM March 18th, 2006 EST (#4)
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Each day, it seems, men's issues are taken more seriously by parts of the mainstream media.
Men's rights issues are just as important as the war in Iraq, the economy, abortion rights, or any other mainstream topic. It is a civil rights issue that directly affects 50% of the population and indirectly affects the other half. Even the Marxist leaning media or "getting it" finally!
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by khankrumthebulgar on 12:13 PM March 18th, 2006 EST (#5)
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The truth is there is no equality. Men have obligations and responsibilities and zero options. Don't pay when the invoice is presented you face Prison. It is estimated that as many as 250,000 Men are incarcerated due to Child Support issues. We are running a Gulag for Men in the US. The Nanny Government has gotten so bad. Men are going ExPat and leaving the US.
Fred Reed articulates what Most Men feel about the US. We have what it has become. We are sick of it. And want to opt out. Women are coming slowly to the realization that Men are voting with our feet.
We are already bailing on Marriage. And Bailing on College. Why should we support a system that hates and exploits us?
The declining Marriage and Birth rates minus Anchor Babies is being ignored by the US Press. As they are allies of the FemNags. Things are unravelling for them. Too bad. Grab a Beer and watch the West implode. Our Women deserve to live under Sharia.
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by Thundercloud on 01:24 PM March 18th, 2006 EST (#6)
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I feel pretty much the same way. (Although some say I'm jaded).
I know once in a while the mainstream media will put out a "Male friendly" article, from time to time. But I just don't trust it. Because most of the time after having an article like this the next day they're back to the same old "women are victims-men are oppressors" stories they always print or report. With women's issues they repeat them over and over and over and over again to POUND it into the public consciousness. But with men's issues, they may print or report ONE story on ONE day and then it fades into obscurity.
So, sorry, I just don't get my hopes up too much when the media prints or reports the occasional men's issue.
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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by Davidadelong on 05:48 PM March 18th, 2006 EST (#9)
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That is why TC People like us need to preach to the proverbial choir. I know some People avoid me due to my views, but I feel it is a small price to pay. You would be amazed, or maybe not, at how many really want to discuss this stuff!
I will not allow my hopes to rise until the system that has implemented this perversion of life on us is vanquished. "Hoka hey!" TC
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by Roy on 12:24 PM March 19th, 2006 EST (#16)
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I know this is a sin of hubris... (those Greeks had pretty much every philosophical notion figured out 4,000 years ago...)
but ---
it's worth pondering that the Founding Fathers of this once-respectable nation were considered to be MARGINAL by their English overlords.
Now, please don't get an inflated ego, or start shooting up testosterone in your ass every day.
Just ...
Consider the possibilities of a real MRA tsunami wave in this time....
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And you have to know what a character Mel Feit is. I'm guessing he put out quite a bit of PR before someone bit.
BTW - for those who don't know, he was on a famous episode of the old Phil Donahue show about fifteen years ago which dealt w/men's issues; Mel is also given a good amount of time in Ellis Cose's excellent book "A Man's World".
Anyway, it's good to hear he's still out there fighting the good fight.
-------------------------------------------------- ----------
/* Not All Men Are Fools -- Some Are Martian Bachelors
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by amperro on 02:38 PM March 18th, 2006 EST (#7)
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Until we have more contraception options than condoms and getting sterilized, we will see more and more instances like this.
Personally, although I support this lawsuit, I am not too keen on the idea of relinquishing responsibility. Even if we win legally, we will never win socially or morally.
We need to make the issue moot with a MALE PILL! Why don't the drug companies get their heads out of their rear ends and get a clue?
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by Davidadelong on 05:56 PM March 18th, 2006 EST (#10)
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A Male pill won't solve the problem, only mask it for a while. Besides, there are side effects to the pill for both Males, and Females. The laws must be changed for the dignity of the Human Race. As it stands the law pits Men and Women against each other, how will a little pill cure this? It won't, nor will it prevent scheming Women from marrying a man for his pay check. But changing the laws would. Just a thought....Or maybe they could combine a new wonder drug with the Male pill so that Men just don't care if they are getting screwed by their own government anymore!
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Even if we do not win legally, we are begining to win socially and morally.
Such actions, and success in other areas, is what has lead to the increased debate. Success breeds success. The fact we have reported debate, is itself a moral victory, and, it means the social mood it altering.
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by Roy on 12:40 PM March 19th, 2006 EST (#17)
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Just how did feminism become so f-ing potent with stupid ideas about women and men being "class enemies' (neo-Marxist crap... err... truth) and now...
gender wars for the next 1,000 years?
Where are all the female anti-feminist philosophers, thinkers, activists?
When will Wendy i-fem McElroy drink her cool-aid as her ultimate testimony of her alliegiance to MRA's?
Funny, huh?
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I don't see a problem. If you don't want kids with worthless western feminazis then just don't fuck them.
Bert
--------------------
From now on, men's rights first.
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by Thundercloud on 09:35 AM March 19th, 2006 EST (#14)
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>"I don't see a problem. If you don't want kids with worthless western feminazis then just don't fuck them."
I don't.
Ever.
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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Yea, knowing that as soon as your dick gets wet you're on the hook for 18 years of child support really does away with the idea of either casual or recreational sex unless you use an alias and give no valid phone number or forwarding address.
-------------------------------------------------- ----------
/* Not All Men Are Fools -- Some Are Martian Bachelors
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by brotherskeeper on 09:57 PM March 18th, 2006 EST (#12)
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Re-read this one carefully...the lovely Nancy Gibbs has slipped a standard chestnut in.
She mentions that women may be at increased risk of violence during pregnancy if she refuses the man's request to abort.
This ugly issue was tried by Donna St. George of the WaPo when VAWA was pending last time. Google Donna St. George with the phrase 'maternal homicide'. Then include Jack Shafer, Slate magazine, with the same phrase, for a thorough fisking.
Notice that Nancy, in all her glorious egalitarianism, still isn't worried about the rights of a fetus.
Why does she seem to support this particular case? I suspect she sees it as a way to continue to gain support for women's 'right to choose'. I doubt she'd write so favorably if this case included the right of a married father to prevent the child he wanted from being aborted.
We shall see...
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by Concerned Teen on 01:40 AM March 19th, 2006 EST (#13)
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Recently, Time magazine has taken a relatively progressive stance towards Men's Rights. It ran an article recently about the statistic that women make up to 30% less than men. As I'm sure your aware, this has been one of the FemNazi's main source of evidence of sexism in the workplace. Time however, exposes their deception. Apparently, the reson for the imbalance is due to the fact that women are prone to accept the first salary offered to them, while men are much more likely to negotiate for more money.
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by Davidadelong on 02:12 PM March 19th, 2006 EST (#18)
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That would also have to include the numbers of working Women that are working for a second income within their family. Most Men are still the major bread winners in traditional married couples homes. Women take time off for having Children, and many decide the income of the Man is sufficient and quit. I would like to see the actual numbers and job comparisons that make up this disparity of 30% less. For instance construction workers, firemen, police, miners, are mostly Men. It is very easy to skew statistics too say whatever one wants.
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by brotherskeeper on 02:17 PM March 19th, 2006 EST (#19)
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If you haven't already, reference Warren Farrell's work. He provides quite a few more reasons for the wage gap. Also backs the reasons up with research. I personally, would be skeptical of this Time article, as it apparently (and opportunistically), dismisses many of the other reasons that Farrell articulates for the pay gap, such as the risks men take, overtime, hardship, etc.
Note that the negotiation issue still would imply that men don't earn or deserve the extra money. They're just slicker.
'Concerned Teen' -- your moniker gives me hope, provided it's truly descriptive.
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The online edition of Time Magazine has