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I really think it's time we consider these types of actions here in the USA. I just don't see what we have to lose...Right now the UK is leading the charge for father's rights. And no, it's not a question of who's leading...it's a question of how many are following, or should I say 'supporting?'
During an election seems to me to be the best time. I would participate myself if I thought there would be sufficient support and outcry.
Maybe we should at least talk about it...
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by Anonymous User on 03:44 PM September 13th, 2004 EST (#5)
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I agree we need this sort of activism on the part of men in the U.S..
I have even been contemplating doing it myself.
The problem is that the MEDIA generaly ignores men's issues AND men's activism.
Even if they do cover a man protesting in this manner, they do everything they can to paint him as some kind of whack-job, or something.
But as I said I have considered doing something like this, myself.
So, if ever the news media covers it, don't be suprised to see a fat Indian guy chained to the fence at the White house, or something. I'll probably be being beaten up by the secret police, or something, too.
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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Unlike in the UK, US family law is controlled by the states and each has specific laws. A legal change in one state has no direct effect on the other 49.
What should be the target of a national effort? I’m not trying to be a pessimist nor suggesting that a national effort is futile. But it will need to be well thought out
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As a British man I didn't understand the federal nature of the USA until I was told about how the VAWA was saving interstate trade by saving women. (The rationalisation for a federal act). If there was enough public pressure you could get a federal act or maybe even a constitutional amendment but none of this will ever happen until the issue gets real airtime.
There have been F4J actions in Canada, Australia and the Netherlands and talk of more including in the USA but it seems you need your own Matt O'Connor to really get things going. You would need someone publicity savvy with time and money. The obvious main target in the USA is Washington DC. Other cities would have to be targeted but in Britain little that happens outside London gets much recognition by the media or politicians. Protest happen outside London and that helps keep up the pressure and momentum but they really notice it if it happens in London.
The main thing is that the stunts feed a publicity bandwagon that gets recruits that enables more stunts etc.. The stunts need a hardcore of people willing to trespass, stay up cranes etc. The point about this is that publicity is not logical. Anything you can do that gets publicity is good providing its legal or nearly legal. In the UK support for F4J remains high in spite of roads being jammed up. The more it happens the more the public understands it's not terrorists or lunatics in spite of the best efforts of some, like the London mayor, to compare Spiderman to Osama Bin Laden.
I say it is possible for men's issues to be heard in any Western country, but it needs the dedication and determination similar to rebels and I believe your country has revolted against somebody before :-).
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I agree completely that it will take national attention before change comes about. My point is that to demand something of the federal government, we have to decide what it is we want to demand. It’s much easier for Washington to do finger pointing exercises on this issue than it is for London. Washington can too easily deny responsibility for fathers’ problems, claiming to have no authority over a state issue. That is unless there’s a specific demand for the feds.
If the civil disobedience were successful the exposure would be great, but sooner or later someone is going to ask, “So what is it you want from Washington?” We’d better have a good answer, and it had better be within the fed’s realm of responsibility because they WILL do what they can to dodge the issue (or worse).
As a British man I didn't understand the federal nature of the USA until I was told about how the VAWA was saving interstate trade by saving women.
Ah! The wonders of Washington. I guess you Brits just don’t understand the intricate relationship between interstate commerce and the need for billion-dollar unconstitutional feminist programs in the US. It's actually very simple. Just have any feminist explain it to you. (End sarcasm)
…and I believe your country has revolted against somebody before :-).
Yes we did. Help me remember, who was that again? I barely passed history.
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No-one is asking “So what is it you want from Washington?” nor likely to in the near future. Until you have some kind of F4J thing going no-one is going to ask. In any case it shouldn't be that difficult to decide for a country that said "All men are created equal" to figure out some sort of demand. Discussing it now is not that important. Discussing how to get to that position is. Better yet, getting to that position is important. You need your Matt O'Connor, your George Washington if you like.
(BTW, you had help from the French :-))
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by Anonymous User on 10:40 AM September 14th, 2004 EST (#13)
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This actually got attention from the news media.
I couldn't believe it!
I even saw it reported by LOCAL news out lets(Here in Indiana) as WELL as on NBC.
I saw nothing on ABC or CBS, but I may have just missed their reports. (although I doubt it.)
While some reporters DID chuckle at the fact he was wearing a BATMAN costume, they actually SAID what group he was with (FATHERS 4 JUSTICE) and WHY he was doing what he was doing. (Fair rights for dads in child custody cases, etc.)
There were no snide, anti-male or anti-father comments made by ANY of the reporters, that I saw. It toataly BLEW MY MIND!
I don't see this as the news media having some kind of apiffany about their treatment of men's issues and men in general, but SOMETHING must be happening that they didn't handle the story in the usual condecending way that MOST reports about men's issues are handled.
Maybe it has something to do with the fact that they know "Male viewership is down" DRAMATICALY.
Maybe they are FINALLY understanding why.
Maybe. But I won't get my hopes up.
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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So.....Anonymous, you're from Indiana? Well I also saw the story on a *LOCAL* news network too, besides on CNN. Like you I was also shocked by the fact that the news anchors mentioned the man's cause and organization in a respectful manner. And *DID-NOT* say anything anti-Father's Rights.
Instead they joked about the Batman outfit and said it was from the "old-school Batman" and laughed about that.
But anyways fellow Hoosier-Anonymous.....howdy neighbor.
*Ms.Thea the Pre-Law Major, Pro-Gender Egalitarian, and Pro-Reproductive Rights Activist*
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by Anonymous User on 03:35 PM September 14th, 2004 EST (#17)
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>"So... Anonymous you're from Indiana?"
It's me, Thundercloud, Thea. Not "anonymous"
Did I forget to sighn my post?
Nope, just checked I sighned it.
But yep, I live in good 'ol Indy.
And no, I didn't mind them laughing a bit about the BATMAN suit. It did look kind of comical.(^_^)
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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by Anonymous User on 01:40 PM September 13th, 2004 EST (#2)
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I was watching SKY news where the protest got getting continuous live coverage. I have never seen a mens rights protest getting such coverage. The action has been outstandingly successful. In total he spent five and a half hours on the ledge.
Hotspur
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by Anonymous User on 02:00 PM September 13th, 2004 EST (#3)
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Yes, they actually had a link to the story right on the front home page of MSN. I couldn't believe it.
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by Anonymous User on 03:51 PM September 13th, 2004 EST (#6)
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I'm suprised any AMERICAN news out-lets even covered this!!
'haven't seen anything about it on the 3 network news out-lets, though.
Probably WON'T, either.
But if it were a woman protesting, about ANYTHING, sitting on a building ledge in England, or ANY WHERE, for that matter, it would get wall to wall coverage from any and ALL news out-lets, GUARANTEED!
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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by Anonymous User on 10:48 AM September 14th, 2004 EST (#14)
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I have to eat crow, as far as my above post goes.
Last night I saw NBC cover the story. (professionaly, for once)
And it made it to the local news, here where I live. I even saw a report on it early this morning.
I posted my feelings about it higher up on this thread, in "FOR ONCE I WAS SHOCKED BY THE MEDIA", if anyone's interested.
Thundercloud
"Hoka hey!"
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I first saw this around ten o'clock this morning on CNN, after I got back from my first class. I was surprised to see that a high-ranking news station like CNN actually gave half a sh*t for the troubles and crisis plaguing fathers and men in general. Our country sure as hell could unabashedly vocal and visual protests like this.
Hell, if the movement takes a bunch of protestors in New York City's Times Square completely nude with Pro-Men's/Father's Rights slogans and propaganda painted on their stark-naked bodies in order to get the mass media, the courts, and the major politicians to take the Men's Movement seriously then hell, just tell me when I'll be there with plenty of paint!
*Ms.Thea the Pre-Law Major, Pro-Gender Egalitarian, and Pro-Reproductive Rights Activist*
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If there's anyone reading from F4J I gotta ask, is the Punisher among your number? if not, He ought to be!
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And let's not forget the American superhero, El Dildo Bandito!
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by Anonymous User on 10:50 AM September 14th, 2004 EST (#15)
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Oh, no...!
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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by Anonymous User on 03:38 PM September 14th, 2004 EST (#18)
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...and let's not forget CAPTAIN TWITCHY!
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by Anonymous User on 04:08 PM September 14th, 2004 EST (#19)
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Who or WHAT in the hell is "Captain Twitchy"????
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!
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Someone is going to suggest Custer next :-)
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I don't get it, what's the joke?
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