|
This discussion has been archived.
No new comments can be posted.
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Fantastic essay, Ray. You hit on all the major high points facing men these days, including and particularly the peculiar passivity which seems to have immobilized men and kept them from responding the wholesale assination of their characters.
I would like your permission to put it on the men for justice website. The sad part of sites like MANN and MND is that the content keeps turning over and some excellent essays drift off the radar screen.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
by Anonymous User on 12:42 AM May 24th, 2004 EST (#3)
|
|
|
|
|
"I would like your permission to put it on the men for justice website.
Yes, by all means please do, and thank you. In the few years that I have been involved in Men's activism, it sometimes seems to me that the highest hurdle to overcome are men themselves not being able to unite in significant numbers to really get their issues noticed.
Ray
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
"the highest hurdle to overcome are men themselves"
My female friendns understand men issues very esaily, so easy, that i can believe it, while most men do not get it, or just do not care.
I think is becouse women are so used to aristocratic treatment, that the mere thought of being treated like a man makes them sick and mad.
Just asking them: what would you think if men would have abortion rights and women no?, what if after dicorce men would keep the house the children and force women to surrender their salaries during the rest of their lives?, what if only women would go to wars?, what would you think if .............
They get mad!!, they get sick at the mere thought of it, may be they never thought it was that bad to men but then it becomes crystal clear for them. Men are different you tell them the same and no reaction, understable is their reality, they are use to it, nothing extrange, everything normal.
Most only awake after getting really hit, after divorce.Now it doesn´t surprised me at all to find women more receptive than men about men issues, but at the beguining i was puzzled, now i undestand why, as i understand aswell that most men have difficulties to get it, most do not care, and the alfa males could´nt care less.
I remeber one day in a pub talking to the owner, a woman, mother of a litle boy, we talk about several things, at certain point she talked about friend divorce, and from there i sarted to talk about men issues, i expected rejection but she was much more supportive and disgisuted about the issues than me, even equal abortion rights, she even asked me to form an association and start to do something.
I think her reaction happened for two reasons, may be the most powerful one was imagining her boy undergo all this mistreatment, and the fact that being a woman it makes her sick placing herself in men shoes for a whil. However the men listlening to the conversation while agreeing were more distant, less receptive, some even waited to see the woman reaction to what i was saying before timidly agreeing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yes, I agree, it's an excellent article, and having it somewhere where it won't be slowly eeked out by the press of new articles would keep it in everyones faces where it needs to be. One more point. I think a lot of men don't do anything out of fear of 'losing everything', and they don't have the same advice laying around that women would receive from shelters. I tried to find the article on MND where I read it, but can't remember the authors name, and that place is a navigational nightmare from a webdesign viewpoint, but it's called 'divorce 101', or something like that. It gives the steps to take over a period of time to save up and stash money, cloths, important papers, even camping gear, and things one would need if all of a sudden, because of becoming more involved in these issues, wifeypoo lowers the boom. At least a fear of being left destitute would be allayed, and he could at least reasonably assure his own survival if worse came to worse. I just don't think we have been ruthless enough in our own approach (even if it means literally, "without Ruth"), but I mean it moreso in the way a good cop catches a criminal. They have to learn to think like one. In our case, what's the worst thing she could do if we said or did A or B, etc., and be substantively prepared for the worst case scenario. Having a clear idea of what the worst case scenerios might be, we have a ton of anecdotal evidence within these pages and other mens sites, and too many men think "no way, she wouldn't do THAT!...would she?" Women or not, as HUMANS, they are as capable of diabolical acts as Hitler or Ginghis Khan.
Disclaimer: Everything I post is of course my own opinion. If it seems harsh, Feminazis just piss me off!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I believe this is the article you were talking about.
send me an e-mail if you can't find it.
I saved a copy in Word format.
baxter_t@excite.com
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yes, That is it! Thanks much. I'll go hunting.
Disclaimer: Everything I post is of course my own opinion. If it seems harsh, Feminazis just piss me off!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
There's been a fair amount of writing and commentary on the topic of differences between women's and men's emotional/identity support systems.
Women tend to have a network of friends, relatives, and co-workers who make up their personal "support system."
A man typically has only his wife or significant female partner as his sole and entire "support system."
So, for a man to risk getting involved in the men's movement, he's jeopardizing his one and only source of approval, affection, and respect.
Unless he's involved with a woman who would be understanding and/or even supportive of his activism, he risks too much by taking the plunge.
This vulnerability also affects men who wish to have a relationship with a woman, so the men's movement at present is skewed in the direction of men who have been burned, and men who have checked out entirely from the mating game.
Interesting that women get automatic and massive social support for articulating their needs and grivances, but social norms in general and personal relationship factors combine to keep men silent about their own issues...
"It's a terrible thing ... living in fear."
- Roy: hunted replicant, Blade Runner
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
by Anonymous User on 06:10 PM May 25th, 2004 EST (#15)
|
|
|
|
|
"...social norms in general and personal relationship factors combine to keep men silent about their own issues.."
"Women tend to have a network of friends, relatives, and co-workers who make up their personal "support system."
A man typically has only his wife or significant female partner as his sole and entire "support system."
Talk about power and control, IMO, the 1st thing many women do when they get involved with a man is sabatoge those relationships of the male she finds unacceptable. Millions of men have one day woke up to find their only support base to be their wife, when suddenly she files divorce (80% of divorces are filed by women). The impact coupled with the financial raping and stealing of children is devastating and is a major contributing factor to the oppression and early death of many men.
Societal norms appear to be strongly against single men getting organized or having any kind of organized support base in Western society.
Ray
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
by Anonymous User on 06:55 PM May 26th, 2004 EST (#16)
|
|
|
|
|
"..the 1st thing many women do when they get involved with a man is sabatoge those relationships of the male she finds unacceptable."
".. she delights to torment and plunder him. So the better the man, the more desirable he be as a husband, the less good by far will he get out of his wife. No present will you ever make if your wife forbids; nothing will you ever sell if she objects; nothing will you buy without her consent. She will arrange your friendships for you; she will turn your now-aged friend from the door which saw the beginnings of his beard."
Juvenal, Satire VI
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I think our natural drive is to handle things for ourselves. If there is a threat or task we can't handle, we band together with other men to combat it.
Our problem is that the threat we face is gradual and something we think we can deal with. Look at the Marriage Strike. We've adapted to anti-male family law changes on a personal level by either being extra careful or by opting out entirely.
If we don't want to wind up like the proverbial boiled frog, we need to take action. We need to develop our resources and start making things difficult for feminazis...
Some questions to think about:
1. Are you willing to work for a minimum of 20 years to address 40 years of misandry?
2. How much can we individually donate to Men's causes? $20/year? $100/year? $500/year? More???
3. Are you willing to donate time?
4. Are you willing to vote for or donate to a politician that will support our issues even though you don't like them?
5. Are you willing to participate in a public protest? A surprise protest at NOW's headquarters might be an idea...
6. If you would like to see one thing addressed in the next year, what would it be? In five years? 10 years? 20 years?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
"Our problem is that the threat we face is gradual and something we think we can deal with. Look at the Marriage Strike. We've adapted to anti-male family law changes on a personal level by either being extra careful or by opting out entirely."
Really, really good observation!, this is why the more receptive to men issues are divorced men, in that case nothing gradual took place, all in a sudden evicted from their houses, their children taken away, and forced to perform slave labor under the threat of imprisionment, divorce is eye openner to men issues.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
... making very good points, courageously written, speaking truth to power (or powerlessness as the case may be), etc. etc.
Yes, we are in need of an end to the go-it-alone approach all right. Those of us working to make the Men's Rights Congress you mention in the article are confident we will get higher count by the day of the congress (maybe as many as 50), but I agree it is disappointing that it would be only that many. In unity is strength, but to have that unity we must get together. It is a puzzlement to me too that there is not more will just to do that, given what we are up against.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
If I may add?
When I tell my friends the stories we read here (and elsewhere) they think we are NUTS. That it CAN'T be that bad. Why is that? Because of the lace curtain. I mean, forget buzz words ("Lace Curtain"), and realize that when a man is murdered we have, time and again, seen how the picture is painted completely differently. DV is not mentioned, victims advocates are nowhere to be seen to give numbers, and men's groups are never asked to comment. So, for the most part, what IS happening doesn't get "out".
Look at the PSAs for DV or the Dead Beat "Parent" (DAD!) campaigns. Look at how once a man is falsely accused there are stats and debates about the VICTIMS (gee, don't we need a trial first?) but the story magically ends when the ADA is "considering charges".
The thing is also, sure, men don't whine as much as women. We just don't complain on the level that women do.
I really like that post by Break in how he talked about how when he started to talk to his female friends about inequity they went nuts because it challenged their princess status.
I saw this program once about prisons. In it the State's Prison head honcho was saying that females made up (something like) 7% of his population but they required ***50%*** of his time. He said that male prisoners asked for something, got a no, and, for the most part, let it go. His (almost exact) wording was: "the females don't know how to take no for an answer". These are the women of our generation. They feel entitled. TO ANYTHING they want. Even in PRISON.
Steven
Guerilla Gender Warfare is just Hate Speech in polite text
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
With regards to BreaK's post, I have experienced much of the same kind of treatment when I have spoken about our misandrous culture. The people who don't react with outrage to my comments usually just roll their eyes. In either event, I am regarded as someone too on the fringe to take seriously; at best, I'm considered a conspiracy nut, like the UFO enthusiasts and believers in the Illuminati.
The basic fact is that people will always believe what they want to believe over any kind of fact or statistic. It's nothing short of mob mentality defining the general good.
As to men not banding together, I sort of alluded to that in a reply to an earlier news piece. It would be nice to assume that we could rally together and foster change, but this is unlikely. I submit that while we tend to act alone, we also tend to act subtly. The marriage strike is a perfect reflection of this. We have, due to our highly prized solitude and due to the fact that we are almost universally hated, become guerilla fighters. Once more, to borrow from George Orwell:
"In the face of the Thought Police, they(we) cannot act collectively. Individually, they(we)cheat, lie, forge documents, wreck machinery...all in the name of spreading knowledge from one generation to another"
I don't advocate such extreme measures as these, but I do support the idea that our banding together needn't be so open. When the feministas begin to feel their biological clocks run a little faster, when they look around and find that guys aren't paying them nearly as much attention as they once did, and the ones that do aren't sticking around for long, and when they finally learn that love and commitment and marriage is about fair compromise and they haven't been willing to do that...when they finally realize that they have been taken in by lies and deceit by their sisterhood, then maybe the pendulum will swing back to center. Until then, let them all suffer, wither, and die off.
Keep your pride gentleman, and keep fighting.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
by Anonymous User on 10:30 AM May 25th, 2004 EST (#9)
|
|
|
|
|
I have not checked this out, but here is an interesting response to this article that I just received. A lawsuit in the world court "The Hague" is an interesting concept that certainly never occured to me. Any comments, suggestions, ideas.
Ray
==================================================
Dear Ray,
This article you wrote is undeserving of any kind of respect.
As a fathers rights activist, my husband and I have done everything humanly possible to get Divorce Reform and Equal Shared Parenting.
Your article is insulting to us all.
WANTED: 1000 WITNESS REPORTS FROM FATHERS.
WE HAVE FILED A "CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITIES " CHARGE AGAINST
CANADA AND INTERNATIONALLY, WITH THE HAGUE, INTERNATIONAL
CRIMINAL COURT.
FILED BY CONNIE XXXXXX AND VIC XXXXX OF NS.
LIBERTY PROMOTIONS.
URGENT: Fathers, Men and Non Custodial Families
=========================================
who have been victimized by the corrupt
Political/Judicial/ Divorce/DV System in your country,
Please fill in the Witness Report to be used as evidence at our
Crimes Against Humanity Lawsuit in The Hague. Papers are already filed.
We are waiting for word from them. It could take a few months.
We want to be fully prepared if/when we are called. We will let you all know.
We need the Witness Reports now. We are filing this Internationally.
Pass this along to all Fathers Groups.
Every single man, woman and child are at risk of further abuse by our governments.
(Click here)
The Link
Also get involved raising money for the cause.
We have found an easy way to raise money and earn income for fathers and
non custodial families. Anyone, actually.
http://libertyprofits.elottosystem.com
Live Free!
Connie and Vic
P.S. A Big Thank You to those who have already sent in their forms.
It still isn't enough however. We want 1000.
When the judge asks who else is abused, we want to be able to show them
1000 real people reports.
We are asking for $500 Billion dollars in compensation to be shared by other
victims.
Live Free! Connie XXXXX
cbrauer@auracom.com (New!)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
by Anonymous User on 11:20 AM May 25th, 2004 EST (#10)
|
|
|
|
|
Here's my email reply to Connie:
"Connie:
In your case your words appear to be true, and if so I heartily apologize. I must concede that I have not heard of your efforts, but as disempowered as we have been that is not surprising.
Being the cautious type that I am, I would like to pass your info along to my friends and associates for further consideration.
My first reaction is that I should be one of the victims/witness reports that go to the Hague. Please forgive me while I pass this along and check it out further.
You are absolutely right to point out that I am remiss to not praise those who have done so much to try to help better the lot of men in our legal systems.
Ray"
================================================
It appears that what Connie & Vic are doing is certainly praise worthy, although I had not heard of it before. Still, there are so many who should be involved (who are not) that I feel the article was justified.
The activists know who they are. I guess most of us have gotten so used to the misandric abuses of our societies and governments, that we don't give a 2nd thought to the fact that we aren't being praised for working to change those injustices. Still, that is no exucuse for my omission.
I guess the reason for my omission is that I've been too preocupied just hoping we would get a little badly needed support on the front lines of the gender wars, where we have been taking a constant battering. I guess (like most of us) I was just thinking, "Get me some help 1st, then you can praise me later when we men are less endangered." I blame my "survival priorities" for my perceived insensitivity and lack of gratitude, but again not to excuse my omission.
Ray
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
by Anonymous User on 07:18 PM May 26th, 2004 EST (#17)
|
|
|
|
|
"From a man’s perspective, America’s greatest threat is not the war in Iraq, or the war on terrorism, it is the war on Father’s & men."
If you want to unify men you should unify all these threats as part of the same thing - the war on men. Separateness along national lines ultimately stems from the same separateness men feel as individuals. And men are "hard-wired" to be independent and to look to and within themselves for answers. The leftist (collectivist/environmentalist) solution you point to rests on the "feminine principle." So you are attempting the hard sell of telling men to adopt the methods of the opposition as the lesser evil in order to compete with them.
"Certain Socialist writers are fond of describing the
Social-Democratic State of the future as implying the
"emancipation of the proletarian and the woman." As
regards the latter point, however, if emancipation is
taken to include domination, we have not to wait so
long. The highest development of modern capitalism,
as exemplified in the English-speaking countries, has
placed man to all intents and purposes, legally under
the heel of woman. So far as the relations of the sexes
are concerned, it would be the task of Socialism to
emancipate man from this position, if sex-equality be
the goal aimed at. The first step on the road towards
such equality would necessarily consist in the abolition
of modern female privilege."
E. Belfort Bax. "The Legal Subjection of Men", 1908.
|
|
|
|
|
[an error occurred while processing this directive]
|
