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by Anonymous User on 04:09 PM March 28th, 2004 EST (#1)
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If the teacher were male, he would go to jail for 25 years for statutory rape. Under "rape" laws, what she did probably isn't even a crime, and I doubt she'll do any time.
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by Anonymous User on 04:28 PM March 28th, 2004 EST (#2)
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What a crock! She's on suspension WITH PAY? Why is she not considered a sexual preditor and locked in jail during the investigation?
Or am I just being closed-minded to the beautiful emotional experience they shared together in spite of what an intolerant society thinks? Poor oppressed lesbians.
TLE
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Hold on, TLE. We should want women to have the same protection against false allegations that we desire for men. If the allegations are substantiated, she most definitely will be charged with something and fired from her job. She's probably on suspension with pay only because of some clause in the union teaching contract. This is one area in which the men's movement has been a success for the most part, even if female predators don't get the same penalties as male ones (yet), society is no longer tolerant of this kind of behavior from women.
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by Anonymous User on 10:01 PM March 28th, 2004 EST (#4)
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Your point is valid that she should have protection against false allegations, as should men. The article makes it sound like false allegation is not a factor here though. Her lawyer said his client "disputes that there was an improper relationship."
As if a lesbian relationship with a minor is not improper. It sounds more like they want to say it was consensual, and therefore not improper.
We'll have to see if she is treated as a woman who just made an error in judgement, or as a sexual preditor, as men would be treated.
TLE
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The bi-sexual (apparently, as the article refers to her male husband...) teacher was probably under the influence of "The Vagina Monologues," and just practicing what the feminists preach.
One of the most controversial scenes in TVM fiasco is a recounting of an ecstatic encounter between an adult lesbian and a 14 year-old girl.
Due to public outrage, the scene was revised to describe the child as 16 years of age.
Nice to know these predators make such fine distinctions when they are recruiting minors into their liberated lifestyle!
"It's a terrible thing ... living in fear."
- Roy: hunted replicant, Blade Runner
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Don't get your hopes hung up on notions of "EQUALITY". The great 20th century vernacular philosophy book "Zen and the ART of Motorcycle Maintenance"pointed out the prevalent fallacy that "quality" was a matter of oppinion. I once had a philosophy professor argue that it WAS for about twenty minutes before I asked him on what basis he marked his student's papers. "Quality"is from the Greek "qualia" meaning "of a distinguishable sort" and the things we say have quality tend to be those that bear the evident hallmarks of loving care. The term "equality" is from the Greek "equalia" meaning "of the same sort" or indistinguishable and has become a sacrosanct term in popular politics...but in reality is bullshit. Equality ONLY exists in the realm of arithmatic.
What is my point? As Andrea Dworkin put it heterosexual sex is "an invasive imposition" (often resulting in unwanted pregnancy) which cannot be said of Lesbian sex and even the Bible does not seem to deem it as serious an offence.
Brothers when looking for remedies to our injustices we need not feel obliged to mirror the medusa.
However if feminazi's are now seeking to make relationships between men and women more than a decade their junior unlawfull because of some notion of power advantage it would be reasonable to apply that guideline to themselves.
For my own part I think many of these things are blown way out of proportion. My own brother, when his first shot gun marriage failed, ended up marrying one of his students (this was before the edicts) and the marriage has been successful...he even played house husband with the kids while she got educated for a lucrative career.
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Equality ONLY exists in the realm of arithmetic.
It's not about equality but about justice.
As Andrea Dworkin put it heterosexual sex is "an invasive imposition" (often resulting in unwanted pregnancy) which cannot be said of Lesbian sex and even the Bible does not seem to deem it as serious an offence.
Bullshit. The Bible has some pretty serious things to say about homosexuality. And since when are we appealing to the authority of ultra-radical feminazi Andrea Dworkin instead of common sense? If women don't want to risk pregnancy... then they shouldn't have sex!
However if feminazis are now seeking to make relationships between men and women more than a decade their junior unlawful because of some notion of power advantage it would be reasonable to apply that guideline to themselves.
It's not about being "more than a decade their junior". It's about sex with minors. Do you have any children MAUS? If so, would you be all right with their teachers, male or female, seducing your children, male or female, into sexual relationships? This is simply unacceptable criminal behavior regardless of the sex of the perpetrator or the victim and should deserve serious punishment.
For my own part I think many of these things are blown way out of proportion.
But this is not one of them.
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Consider what would occur as to legal repercussions if this sexual predator were male.
He would be prosecuted as a pedophile, and if convicted, required to register as such wherever he lives, and have his name forever recorded and available for public scrutiny on an Internet database.
Why is this female not being afforded that same "equal justice?"
"It's a terrible thing ... living in fear."
- Roy: hunted replicant, Blade Runner
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Guys, Take a deep breath. I DO have children, in fact I have grandchildren. One of the things that we might never see eye to eye on is the sort of witch hunts that occur over this sort of thing.
To begin with, Christ's mother was probably fourteen, it is very doubtfull that she was sixteen (virgins were even more rare in the first century than they have been in the last three...the dowery that you could negotiate for was just too lucrative.) Christ's supposed father was probably about fifty. That's the way it was...now I know Mary looks to be about twenty-eight on the typical christmas card, but trust me guys...no sane sensible man having reached the age of fifty would ever consent to investing his bar mitzvah money on an arranged marriage with a twenty-eight year old virgin. Oh I do remember rousing the ire of my religious studies mentors by pointing out to them how misleading some of the cultural imagery that goes along with Sunday school really is.
The girl in question can lawfully operate a motor vehicule and can lawfully give consent for sex. If this still constitutes "statutory rape" in your jurisdiction do not assume that it does in hers. NOBODY REMAINS CONFINED TO THEIR PANTS UNTIL THEY ARE 18!!!
The issue in question here is the appropriateness of such a relationship between a teacher and a student. There are several good argumentations such as issues of trust that could be raised, but a heinous sex crime....now you are thinking and acting like the feminazis and it is a knee jerk reaction.
If she and the girl have lesbian tendancies....placing one or both in sexually segragated incarceration is not going to "cure"it nor is it going to deterr other women and girls from exploring such feelings and you might as well get used to that.
Let God be the heavy for whatever he might choose to hate and do not appoint yourself to the commission of being the instrument of His wrath. because He doesn't tend to hold blameless those who taketh His name in vain.
The greatest jeopordy the teacher should face is loss of position. There are sixteen year olds out there who are more seasoned sexual veterans than any of us and who seduced who would be a matter I would not want to speculate on.
But what this thread has pointed out...and yes I did deliberately look for your buttons...is the dynamics of group persecution of the "sexual offender"that so many men have been the victim of.
Everyone was so willing to go HA GOTTCHA!! because the accused is a woman and we are all licking wounds about THAT.
How many of you guys can honestly say that you have no idea what a teenage girl looks like naked?....get real ...those are amoung your most treasured memories.
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What does Christ's mother have to do with any of this? If you want to talk about the desirability of women marrying younger that is a topic for another thread.
The girl is still a minor. She can get her driver's license only with her parents' permission. She is still entitled to her parents' support. She can't buy cigarettes legally. Etc., etc. There are certain protections minors have because they aren't seen as adult enough yet to make certain decisions for themselves. Where do you want to draw the line? Sexual relationships with 12-year-olds? Seven-year-olds? I don't know what the laws are in that state regarding statutory rape but a line must be drawn somewhere.
The rest of your argument is "well everyone does it so it must be OK". And if you want to bring God into this, remember "no unclean, or fornicator... shall inherit the Kingdom of Heaven".
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"Fornicator"as defined by the Lex Romani (Roman Law) (the original source of that word on Latin) One who has sex with a prostitute in public view under the "forni" (the arches that formed the aquaduct beside the Via Appia which was the main road into Rome)
Where the Protestant Puritain notion that all extramarital sex constitutes "fornication"comes from no legitamate scholar can seen to find...it certainly was not what Jewish rabbis taught for thousands of years.
But what are you advocating? Canada abandoned the 18 year old guideline for "statutory rape" when it became evident that you could incarcerate the whole male population of Canada by that guideline.
You must live deeeeeep in the Bible belt if you are under the impression that teenagers are not sexually active.
You do have a legitamate point about risking unwanted pregnancy with a girl who is still under the economic protection of her parents, but lesbianism hardly does that.
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MAUS, you really are missing the point here. It is irrelevant what sex either of them are. The age of consent in nearly every state is 18 when the adult is over 20 (some states have an exception when the kids are close in age). The woman is a teacher, and it is not only wrong but likely illegal to have sexual relations with your grade school student. What happened 2000 years ago is irrelevent as women do not marry at 14, it is illegal. Times have changed due to extended lifespans.
We all know teens have sex, with EACH OTHER. A married, grown woman in an authoritative position has no busines having sex with a 16 year old child. If this was a man the media would say the girl was raped, manipulated and taken advantage of. That is not what was said here.
The treatment was inequitable, and there is no way of rationalizing it. A boy being raped by a man is equally heinous and would be treated as such. The fact is that a woman gets away with far more than a man, and the reason is prejudice.
The Biscuit Queen
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by Anonymous User on 12:20 AM April 2nd, 2004 EST (#13)
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Thanks again for your clarity.
TLE
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Guys, there are many things in this thread that I could argue with the factuallity of..."threescore and ten is the measure of a man"that's seventy years. The increased average lifespan is a factor of reduced infant mortality, unusual longevity was more rare in the twentieth century than in many previous centuries...if that is your definition of pedophile...Joseph the patron saint of fatherhood was a pedophile...not to mention The Holy Spirit.
You guys have missed MY point. Go ahead and sew a big red P on her if that satisfies some sense of Puritan righteousness.
Nothing in this thread persuaded me that the accussed was a feminazi.
Nothing in this thread persuaded me that this woman has ever uttered so much as a word of culture of mysandry against any man.
Nothing in this thread persuaded me that she has ever wronged any man in the manner that we express our legitamit grievances in anywhere else in this forum.
Is it simply the fact that the accussed is female that makes you so zealous?
My primary grievance against feminazis is sexual witch hunts.
Having been the focus of one and having seen people I know loose decades of their lives and even life itself over the frenzy of vindictive righteousness that it whips up taught me compassion to any and all people caught up in one "guilty" or not.
There is no way I will ever stoop so low as to participate in one.
"Let the one among you who is without sin cast the first stone"
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