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by Anonymous User on 04:00 PM March 29th, 2004 EST (#1)
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As I've mentioned before I think this is a great idea. I'm not sure how to get clips of commercials like the Progressive Insurance date castration gem from last year. I doubt Regressive Insurance would assist in the effort.
If it's just a list of examples of violence against men in commercials, that's easier, but doesn't have the impact that a visual clip would have.
Another idea I had was to also do a short 5 or 10 minute video using clips from movies showing all the groin kicks to men, set to classical music like the William Tell Overature or whatever that "beef, it's what's for dinner" theme is. It would start with the sensational Butch Cassidy groin kick (granddaddy of all groin kicks) and go from there. Video clips would be easier to get from DVDs, though I do not have the equipment to do that.
Scenes of disposable men getting shot en masse could also be used. Of course, that would extend the length of the film to 30 minutes or more. I'm sure you know what I mean, but the move The Professional comes to mind, where Leo the hitman takes on an entire SWAT team to protect a ten year old girl whose parents were killed. In the process he kills countless men, who (if it was in real life) certainly would have ten year old girls of their own.
Maybe a short film like this would wake up more men to the denigration of us all. It's just like Thundercloud said a couple weeks ago, that men are cheering their own demise. At some point they need to say "hey, wait a second."
TLE
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by Anonymous User on 04:52 PM March 29th, 2004 EST (#3)
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"Another idea I had was to also do a short 5 or 10 minute video using clips from movies showing all the groin kicks to men, set to classical music like the William Tell Overature or whatever that "beef, it's what's for dinner" theme is. It would start with the sensational Butch Cassidy groin kick (granddaddy of all groin kicks) and go from there. Video clips would be easier to get from DVDs, though I do not have the equipment to do that."
The piece you're thinking of is Aaron Copland's "The Rodeo". But I do hope you're kidding about adding a soundtrack. It would wind up looking like AMERICA'S FUNNIEST HOME VIDEOS, and most of us hate that.
Overdoing this could backfire; we need to strike a balance.
bg
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by Anonymous User on 05:41 PM March 29th, 2004 EST (#5)
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I had imagined that such music would represent the glee with which scenes of violence toward men are presented. Sort of like how the crowd cheers in the movie "Miss Congeniality" when Sandra punches her male FBI collegue in the groin for no reason. Obviously, if anyone produced such a short film, they would select whatever music they felt was most effective.
TLE
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We just tape off the TV and the radio?
bg
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The recording format has to be something that Glenn can use on the radio so that video clips may be something he cannot use. Sound clips have to be stripped into MP3 format to mail on the internet unless we simply mail the tape direct. This has always been a problematic thing with radio commentary is that the commentator has to paint the picture with words and the most engaging way to do that is in a dialogue with somebody who has a tallent for spinning stories in a way that grab your attention. Stephen King honed his craft as a kid telling ghost stories to friends around a campfire.
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by Anonymous User on 09:10 PM March 29th, 2004 EST (#7)
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Would there be any legal issues to consider?
You know, like you'd have to get permmision from what ever company who's matirial you used?
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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You can describe what you have seen, just like the most recent Dairy Queen commercial.
Showing a man getting kicked in a crotch by a baby, then getting headbutted by it.
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Copyright laws generally only require permission for use except in reviews or academic research (which by practice and implication include critique,exposé,and satyre) as long as the source and authorship is duely accredited by footnotes and or show credits attached to the piece...in other words Thunder Cloud as long as we say where we got it attacking it for culture of mysandry content is fair ball....sigh...ain't freedom of speach great!!!
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by Anonymous User on 10:41 PM March 31st, 2004 EST (#27)
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Reusing a small part of something for the purpose of criticism or journalism might be possible to defend as "fair use."
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The reason that these commercials and ideas are so prevalent, is that society is *conditioned* to think that violence against males is funny. Just showing people a string of clips of males getting hit, or hit in the groin specifically, is going to have them react the way they are conditioned to: they will find it funny.
You may *try* to tell them, "Hey! It's not funny, it's violence." but you have to beat their conditioning first.
The best way would be to use the sudden reversal trick. Show a string of violent acts against men that are considered comical, done to "funny" music. Then end the clip with two or three clips of the same thing happening to a woman when it is considered a serious crime. Then end it with something like, "Why aren't you laughing now?" or "Why is it only funny when it happens to men?" or "Isn't violence against *anyone* supposed to be a crime?" or something like that.
That's just my 2 cents.
R
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Show a string of violent acts against men that are considered comical, done to "funny" music. Then end the clip with two or three clips of the same thing happening to a woman when it is considered a serious crime.
I like this idea but I’d like to see it done as a controlled study and generate data that documents any different reactions to equal violence depending on the victim's sex. It may have already been done but I haven’t heard of it, maybe it’s locked away in a university vault somewhere due to “sensitivity” concerns.
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by Anonymous User on 02:18 PM March 30th, 2004 EST (#13)
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This would be an ideal "men's studies" research project, if there was such a thing.
The idea I had was to show the sheer volume of images of violence toward men, and the casual way in which it is accepted as unimportant or humorous. Usually movies have one groin kick as a highlight of comedy. If we show seventy or eighty in a row I think people would get the picture that something is very disturbing that we find it funny.
Maybe the idea in my head isn't original. Come to think of it there is a scene in Clockwork Orange where the McDowell character kicks a man in the crotch while classical music is playing.
TLE
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"The idea I had was to show the sheer volume of images of violence toward men, and the casual way in which it is accepted as unimportant or humorous."
I especially like that word, "unimportant". Frequently movies show violence towards or even the death of a man, as simply a plot device.
In the movie Daredevil, the villain, Bullseye kills a man in a bar, kills another man to get his motorcycle, then kills the two male guards of the head bad guy. The death of these men were "unimportant", it was just done to show how "badass" the villain was.
R
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This would be an ideal "men's studies" research project, if there was such a thing.
Why hasn’t it been done as a WOMEN’S studies project? Everyone that follows feminism and the mass media know that our culture accepts and glorifies violence against women. A study like this would demonstrate how insensitive our society is to violence directed at women. (end sarcasm)
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""The reason that these commercials and ideas are so prevalent, is that society is *conditioned* to think that violence against males is funny. Just showing people a string of clips of males getting hit, or hit in the groin specifically, is going to have them react the way they are conditioned to: they will find it funny.
You may *try* to tell them, "Hey! It's not funny, it's violence." but you have to beat their conditioning first.
The best way would be to use the sudden reversal trick. Show a string of violent acts against men that are considered comical, done to "funny" music. Then end the clip with two or three clips of the same thing happening to a woman when it is considered a serious crime. Then end it with something like, "Why aren't you laughing now?" or "Why is it only funny when it happens to men?" or "Isn't violence against *anyone* supposed to be a crime?" or something like that. ""
You're 100% correct that this is what we should do. I think if we just show a montage of men being slapped/punched/hurt in the groin, all with cute music in the background, and the people we're trying to reach are all laughing, then where are we? We need to show just enough examples to make our point and then show a woman being hurt in the same manner, and then address why people find one acceptable/cute/funny/romantic/sexy and the other horrible.
bg
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This is actually an idea that I have had before. At Anime (Japanese animations)conventions, there are frequently Anime Music Video contests, where people make a montage on their favorite Anime scenes put together with a musical piece and make their own "music video".
The "violence against male characters is funny" idea is pretty strong in Anime. So I thought of making a video that had a collection of scenes from Anime with male characters getting hit, slapped, pushed, pummelled, etc by female characters, then at the end I would have 1-2 slow scenes of a female character getting hit. I would then have words appear, "Why is it funny when it happens to a man? Are you still laughing now?"
However, I didnt do this becuase 1) I lack the A/V resources to do so and 2) I would not want to risk the possible backlash that this would cause and 3) maybe an Anime convention is not the place for such a political thing.
R
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by Anonymous User on 12:18 PM March 30th, 2004 EST (#10)
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Hollywood in its earlier days showed "Western Civilization" males as heroes in their historical battles for survival against nature and others who opposed their superior skills and abilities (weapons). Sorry Thundercloud, as we know, they showed Indians as less than the ordinary people they were just defending their homes. Hollywood rationalized and excused away doctrines like “manifest destiny” in the name of noble progress, and enlightened civilization. Slavery and indentured servitude have been onerous by products of the human species through out time, not to mention disease and war. Men and women used to support each other in the species common battle against death and annihilation by the elements, but no more. Today with the present state of technology, in the eyes of femi-supremacists, men have become redundant, oppressive, and of questionable value to the species.
Upon reflection, and deeper examination, using 20/20 hind sight it is not difficult to see the flaws in our imperfect beings, and those who have been most proactive in striving against the elements for survival are most visible (men). Thereby, men are most easily vilify when fault finding as femi-supremacist love to do with all men.
It has been men who have been tasked throughout history with the job of battling the elements to ensure the survival of the species. (click) Privileged Patriarchs Having accomplished our task to the point where our technology has reached a plateau where the skills of men have become less needed we find ourselves in the mess we are in today. We have had 30 years of input from gender feminists and it is abundantly clear that they are not the gracious enlightened saviors of society that they purported to be. ...not by a long shot
We have always listened to the criticisms and advice of our "better half," because it was in our nature to protect them, and our children from the elements. It is clear we have done what needed to be done using our innate skills and abilities, and it is clear today they will make sure that no good deed will go unpunished, because in our magnanimity we were really oppressors who just didn’t know it.
(click) All the Worlds Problems
Today the back seat drivers are at the wheel. As television commercials and programs show us they are the moral compass of society showing us the direction that is right and good and appropriate. Having never been at the wheel, having never engaged in the past injustices of men, they point to their inexperience as if it were a mantel of moral superiority. Suddenly Hollywood portrays men, not as heroes and caring men who have gotten civilizations to where it is today, but as violent villains and beasts of burden fit only for slave labor, prison, death, and abuse. If you dehumanize the villain sufficiently, you can done anything you want and it is not only excusable, it is justified and righteous. Everyone knows that. It has been a basic Hollywood premise of script writing for decades.
Yes, after years of analyzing history with 20/20 hindsight and at times (many times) revising it through politically correct gender feminist glasses we have come to the point we are at today. The men of steel who held elements at bay for millennia are now undesirable, their behavior is criminalized at every opportunity. Let’s face it there are just too many people in this world to begin with so an aggressive, assertive male is the last thing that should be allowed if oppressed females are to ever have their equal participation in the running of things. The challenge of men today is no longer in man’s physical ability to overcome the elements. Men have been cheating for centuries using tools and weapons to the point that today most of the hard physical work is done by tools and yes weapons (even a woman can push a button). The challenge for man today is to use his mind (as he has for centuries) to reinvent himself into the equation using the brilliance and mastery that has gotten his species to this point in time. Males have historically been the innovators who have used every opportunity to tilt the playing field to their advantage in the interest of survival. What has fair ever had to do with survival? It is trickery, exploitation and propaganda as much as anything that has determined human mastery over the elements. It is clear from commercials and programming today that gender feminists have learned that lesson well from men, after all it was our Mothers who first instilled that in us before we were old enough to be tutored by our Fathers.
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by Anonymous User on 04:30 PM March 30th, 2004 EST (#17)
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I don't recall seeing Max Hardcore on TV.
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by Anonymous User on 05:17 PM March 30th, 2004 EST (#18)
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Great idea. We'll take some of those commercial endorsements he does for major corporations and edit them in.
TLE
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by Anonymous User on 02:20 PM March 31st, 2004 EST (#22)
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Yeah, but don't forget that the number of women useing porography has been increaseing steadily in the last 20 or so years.
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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by Anonymous User on 02:23 PM March 31st, 2004 EST (#23)
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Men being hit in the groin is often done for sexual arousement purposes for women. That in and of it's self is the DEFINITION of pornography. And it is seen on the PUBLIC air waves CONSTANTLY!
Thundercloud.
"Hika hey!"
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by Anonymous User on 01:49 PM April 1st, 2004 EST (#29)
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Also there is a very disturbing trend on the increase in the "entertainment" media right now where men are freaquently depicted in obvious (and occasionaly nude) bondage and sado\masochistic situations. even in COMMERCIALS
Last time I checked bondage and SnM are pornographpy.
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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by Anonymous User on 01:52 PM April 1st, 2004 EST (#31)
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I meant "PORNOGRAPHY" not "pornographpy".
Don't ask me where THAT came from...!
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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by Anonymous User on 03:20 PM March 31st, 2004 EST (#24)
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How many women have misandric vibrators hidden away? How dare they objectify our sexuality in such a demeaning manner?
I fail to see the relevance comparing porn to mainstream entertainment that constantly shows images of groin kicks and the wholesale slaying of men (not women) for all to enjoy.
Care to sign your posts?
TLE
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It may be an innocent accident but your “porn” in sentence #2 morphs into “misogynistic porn” in the next sentence. Are you equating porn and misogyny?
I think the comparison of porn with certain violent depictions in advertising is a poor one. There may be some porn out there that is violent and misogynistic but demonizing all porn because a small category is offensive is the type of phony generalization that feminists get away with all the time.
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Well, what percentage of women in the adult industry are *forced* into it? Society seems to keep pointing out what sexist, horny pigs males are for wanting or using pornography, but no one seems to notice the women IN the pornogrphy. Women are using their "feminine wiles" in the form of sexual manipulation to make a living, yet it is the men that get the third degree?
R
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Oh, that is because they are exploited into the industry by lies, promises, drugs and force. Didn't you know that? Where have you been?
The fact is that porn is only available if an adult or unsupervised minor goes LOOKING for it, and not all porn is mysoginist. Misandric ads are blasted at us from the time we are infants on radio, telivision, film, billboards and periodicals. You cannot spend a day, unless you stay in your home with no media exposure, without seeing some form of mysandry. My children never see porn, but they are bombarded with misandry at school, home and everwhere. We are shutting off our cable to cut down on the exposure, but that doesn't end it. My sons notice how badly they are looked at for being boys, and I only thank God we have armed them with awareness.
Tell me, where are little girls subjected to mysoginist ads? They are not.
I am so sick of the poor me I am a woman shit.
I was at a show this weekend, and I was sitting with two setup guys and a bi-girl(she was a trainer) The guys and I were talking about this topic, and they were suprised that there actually was a movement against it. Well, she pipes up and says "Guys are dicks. They are just penises." We ignore her. Then she says "the thing about men is that they are not in touch with their feminine side. They are just guys." Well, duh... I said I all the men I know are great guys, and have no problem being well balanced. The two set up guys just shook their heads. Needless to say she shut up the rest of lunch. Why is it she felt she could just sit there and bash guys, objectify them, and it was OK. What if one of the guys said..Women are just cunts. They are walking vaginas. It would go over like a lead balloon.
We have a long road ahead of us.
The Biscuit Queen
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::I was at a show this weekend, and I was sitting with two setup guys and a bi-girl(she was a trainer) The guys and I were talking about this topic, and they were suprised that there actually was a movement against it. Well, she pipes up and says "Guys are dicks. They are just penises." We ignore her. Then she says "the thing about men is that they are not in touch with their feminine side. They are just guys." Well, duh... I said I all the men I know are great guys, and have no problem being well balanced. The two set up guys just shook their heads. Needless to say she shut up the rest of lunch. Why is it she felt she could just sit there and bash guys, objectify them, and it was OK. What if one of the guys said..Women are just cunts. They are walking vaginas. It would go over like a lead balloon.::
I'm sorry, what did you say you did for a living again? I see "set-up" and I'm picturing you all on a trapeze...
bg
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by Anonymous User on 02:05 PM April 1st, 2004 EST (#32)
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Never mind.
I tried doing a search for the "VOODOO JEANS" billboard but had no luck finding that monsterosity.
Well, take my word for it, it was terrible!
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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I am a dog trainer, and a member of the Superdogs team, we travel and put on shows with the dogs. Kind of like the Harlem Globetrotters meets Krufts. The guys were the ones who set up all the equiptment, lights sound, etc. All but 2 of the performers were women. The woman was actually a rival disc player who insisted on being in the spotlight alone. You know, the all about me syndrome. (roll eyes)
The Biscuit Queen
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Thanks for the reminder. I don't know how the hell I could have forgotten a job like that...
bg
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Great post jenk/BQ. Nothing more to add to what you had to say about the current state of how society views/treats the two genders, but "ditto". And thank you.
R
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