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by Anonymous User on 04:58 PM March 2nd, 2004 EST (#1)
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While I agree with one of the men that it IS a shame that any parent might have to go to jail for "flaunting" the law, I for one applaude this British judge. He up-held the law even though holding women accountable is politicaly incorrect.
I too think 3 months was a bit harsh but maybe it will send a message to other mothers with-holding father's visits that the time has come for them to cut it out.
Now, If only the court system in America would have the guts to follow suit. If not, I wonder if we in this country will have to "pull stunts" like climbing crains to get justice, as well.
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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by Anonymous User on 05:16 PM March 2nd, 2004 EST (#2)
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While the imprisonment of anyone is nothing to rejoice over, this case may reflect a growing change of attitude on the part of British judges and this is probably a result of the F4J campaign. Activism produces results.
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Exactly, we need to follow the lead of F4J and get busy.
I disagree that 3 months is too much time. We don't know the details yet and until then why pass judgement. I am very happy at the message this sends to women all over the world.
Mens Rights 2004 Congress
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by Anonymous User on 11:22 PM March 2nd, 2004 EST (#9)
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Their social engineering is coming back to haunt them. Be afraid, very afraid.
TLE
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For a long time now females have screamed equal rights for women. Babes, you ask for it, now you got it. It's about time women be held accountable for the many horrific things they have put their children and the children's fathers through.
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I have NO problem with 3 months. She caused her son to miss out on 2 years (and the kid is only 4 right?) with only a few HOUR visits. Since judges often "set an example" I think he should have reversed the custody of the mom and dad. THAT would have set an example. THAT would have made the mothers sit up and take notice. So what she goes to jail for 3 months, she violated **18** contact orders. Not 2, not 5, not even 10 ... freaking ***18*** of 'em.
And what is done to FATHERS who fail to pay mommy, errr, child support is far worse. Whole swaths of the life (legal,financial, professional, social, parental etc) get blighted ... AND they do jail time.
3 months?! She got off easy.
Steven
Guerilla Gender Warfare is just Hate Speech in polite text
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by Anonymous User on 06:42 PM March 2nd, 2004 EST (#4)
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"3 months?! She got off easy."
Okay, you're probably right, Steven.
I just try to be charitable.
But maybe in this case, I shouldn't be.
By the way does anyone know why the FATHER wasn't given custody of the boy, instead of the grandperents when the mother was sent to jail?
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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by Anonymous User on 07:22 PM March 2nd, 2004 EST (#6)
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Well, It was a semi-rehtorical question.
But, still I was wondering what reason, or should I say excuse, might have been given to not give custody to the father.
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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by Anonymous User on 12:34 AM March 3rd, 2004 EST (#10)
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I think sending her to jail wasn't the best thing to do. I believe we send too many people to jail as it is. But that's my viewpoint.
But I don't feel sorry for her, it's not like she has any right to deny the father access. And I can't really see any reason to do what she did, unless he was abusive to children. But if that was the case the man would be in jail a very long time ago.
Like the father said "she only has herself to blame".
Maybe she is guilty of child abuse? I wonder if a man did this to the mother, would it be considered abuse to the child for denying the child the right to his/her mother? I don't think that's that far fetched. Certainly it would prove the controling personality of men.
p. george
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I think sending her to jail wasn't the best thing to do. I believe we send too many people to jail as it is. But that's my viewpoint.
What would you have done instead. There is no other legal recourse that anyone can take against a person. It is not like they are going to stop the flow of money from the father to the mother.
By her being arrested has made a few of my friends happy who have been fighting uphill legal battles to even see their kids. They have spent thousands of dollars to fight to ensure that they get their visitation.
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by Anonymous User on 07:07 PM March 3rd, 2004 EST (#12)
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I think too many of us MRAs try too hard to be "nice" activists, Includeing myself.
I always try to be empathetic to 'both sides' but you know what? The other "side" is NEVER empathetic with us. So I'm jumping on the "3 years is not enough" band wagon, with the rest of ya.
No more Mr. nice guy...,
...Okay, a LITTLE nice, But not so much, anymore.
I don't want to be a souless-wonder like so many feminists are.
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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by Anonymous User on 08:44 PM March 3rd, 2004 EST (#13)
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don't want to be a souless-wonder like so many feminists are.
Preserve your soul, but show anger about injustices against men. It shows that you have a heart that can break.
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by Anonymous User on 09:23 PM March 3rd, 2004 EST (#15)
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First time I've heard reference on mensactivism to the souless (should there be 2 l's in that?) state of many feminists. I've long noticed that many of them are desouled. Most noticeable in their eyes. Their eyes are like empty pits. A bit like looking into the depths of Hell. I thought I was the only person who noticed this.
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PLZ .. in the name of all that is holy ...
Can everyone plz just get a handle. You can put a YAHOO E-mail address that you never use. You can call yourself anything you plz. But for heaven's sake?!?! There are 2-3 "anon" posters and it's obvious they are different people and you don't know who the hell you are responding to.
PLZ GET A HANDLE AND USE IT.
Thank you
Steven
Guerilla Gender Warfare is just Hate Speech in polite text
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by Anonymous User on 02:51 AM March 4th, 2004 EST (#17)
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you could always just type a name at the end of your post like me. I do not wish to sign my name up to anything that I don't have to. That's just me though.
p.george
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by Anonymous User on 02:36 PM March 4th, 2004 EST (#18)
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Yeah, Just make up ANY name and sighn your post with it when ever you submit a comment.
It really would make things easier.
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
(See? it's easy.)
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by Anonymous User on 02:39 PM March 4th, 2004 EST (#19)
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OH! But DON'T use "Thundercloud" because that's ME! That's my name! and it has great symbolic meaning to me.
So make up a cool name of your own! (^_^)
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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by Anonymous User on 09:01 PM March 3rd, 2004 EST (#14)
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"What would you have done instead."
If my kid was essentially banned to see me, I'd probably freak. I'd resort to using our legal system I'd imagine, I'd be desparate.
"There is no other legal recourse that anyone can take against a person."
I agree, but I believe this is because our very legal system is flawed.
"By her being arrested has made a few of my friends happy who have been fighting uphill legal battles to even see their kids. They have spent thousands of dollars to fight to ensure that they get their visitation."
I can understand this. I was not meaning to hurt anyones feelings or offend anyone. I was just stating my opinion about sending her to prison. I did not state this to show my sympathy for her. I just believe the way we treat criminals causes more problems then it solves. But that is a whole other story that we need not get into.
I believe it isn't fair the way women can use children as a way to hurt men. And it isn't fair if they just think a father isn't needed. I believe our society lets women treat their children as if they were property. That may be a bit of an exageration, but I believe it is close to the truth.
I don't knnow if feminsts created this, or not. But I believe they support and make legislation that reinforces the mothers ownership of her child, This is quite odd since they talk quite a bit on how women were or are treated as property. Not to forget the damage done to the Fathers as well. And I almost believe that feminists support such a system because it does hurt fathers, they care not about the children it seems.
I support fathers who are denied their children (except in cases of abuse). It is odd for me to do this since I do not care for my father, which has caused me ill feelings. I try to ask myself, 'is this fair' or not, and then go from there in helping a person or group out. I believe there are quite a few ways in which men are treated unfairly. It seems as though the left does not think this way, but holds certain groups that should be helped and other groups which do not deserve help.
Another way fathers l(and supporters) like this can support each other and make social change is by organizing themselves at the local level, I'm talking neighborhood or city, depending on how many fathers there are who would choose to join. These would affinity groups organized by the men (and possibly women) who want to voluntraliy spend their time and energy for the groups goal, which for this case would be fathers being allowed to have access to their children.
They would discuss their ideas, goals, startegies and hopes for the future, and probably have some fun together like drinking some beer. Possibly hand out leaflets, give public talks, possibly organize a local protest to get on the media and get politician's and judge's attention and get supporters of the general local population.
Of course these local affinity groups through out the country are not enough. These local affinity groups will in all likely hood desire to work with other affinity groups through out the country. This would be called 'confederation' to organize with these other groups. This would be a federation of fathers (and their supporters) through out the country who have been denied access to their children for no rational reason at all. It could be organized from the local level to the region, then national.
Each local affinity group of a region can decide on a delegate of their ranks to go to the regional group, which would consist of other elected delegates. These delegates could only say and do what the local affinity group democratically decided upon. If the delegate does otherwise he is taken out of that position, and another one is chosen.
This would give men at the local power autonomy and power over their local group. I believe it would empower the men (and possibly the supporters) and I believe would create faster and newer innovations because these men would be in total control of themselves and disinegrate their apathy> They would not have to follow orders from some unreachable man at the top, who does not fully realize the needs of the men at the local level. It would be this way because they would have organized themselves in a decentralized manner. This would make it so their movement could not be hijacked by self interested power mongers, like some feminist groups have. And again the fathers would be in total control of their movement while keeping their autonomy.
I believe this is a way men can create social without always having to resort to the dependency on p[oliticans judges and lawyers. This would also make the public aware of how fathers and their children are mistreated to get support. This would also put pressure on politicians and judges. This is a way to create change without having to beg the govt. to change things for you.
These fathers could also participate in civil disobedience similar to the men in the U.K.
A good book to start off with is "on the duty of civil disobedience" by Henry David Thoreau.
If anyone decides to respond to this because they think I'm being stupid, please just give me a break. I spent a lot of time on this.
It made me think to make this into an article and post in on mensactivism. But I'm not sure anyone would care about it. I do believe in this, and I would support it as long as it's for equality.
p.george
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by Anonymous User on 07:58 PM March 4th, 2004 EST (#20)
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well, even though people seem not to be in agreement or maybe interested in my views on how to get the movement to be---I believe---effective I think I will still try to write an article on this and post it. I did not say all that could be of benefit to men in the above post, and I even have other ideas that have been shooting through my thick skull today.
Even if people think I'm a complete weirdo or prick, I think the information that I could give will be useful to men's activists. I'm thinking I probably will write the article even if one person or no one thinks it's of value, because I truly believe that what I could say--at least on this topic--would be beneficial and make the man haters look like the reactionaries.
p.george
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by Anonymous User on 08:54 PM March 4th, 2004 EST (#21)
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"I probably will write the article even if one person or no one thinks it's of value"
Any ideas on how to make the mens movement more effective will be of value.
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