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by Anonymous User on 08:11 PM February 10th, 2004 EST (#1)
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I hate to nitpick but I noticed that there is a pesky little spelling error on a few of the items you are selling. "Paternity Fraud - Been Told Your Not Daddy?" The "Your" should be "You're" (You are). People will probably not take the message very seriously if they notice this and shrug the shirt off as a joke or something. You might want to fix that if/when you make your next batch of shirts.
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by Anonymous User on 01:06 AM February 11th, 2004 EST (#6)
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Thanks, that was about to be another night shirt.
Ray
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by Anonymous User on 11:41 PM February 10th, 2004 EST (#2)
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(click) PATERNITY FRAUD2
(click) PATERNITY FRAUD3
(click) PATERNITY FRAUD4
(click) PATERNITY FRAUD5
(click) PATERNITY FRAUD6
I hope to be working with our states paternity fraud victims in the coming year, just because I'm so sick and tired of this deviltry, that our local feminists have been abusing innocent men with.
People who support paternity fraud are a particularly despicable and vile lot.
Sincerely, Ray
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It's "You're Not Daddy", not "Your Not Daddy". We don't want to lose credibility with incorrect spelling.
P.S. I have another slogan: "Paternity Fraud: The Rape Women Perpetrate Against Men."
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by Anonymous User on 01:05 AM February 11th, 2004 EST (#5)
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Thanks. I've been doing so many lately, I think I'm seeing double.
Ray
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Ray,
I like your shirts. I agree with the concept, but it's a becoming a bit much with tons of links every time man. If I could PM you this I would, as a guy to guy thing, but I can't. I appreciate the hard work, but you are making your posts into sales pitches. I know my post may piss you off, but I just felt I should say SOMETHING. What you do with it, that's up to you. It has not altered my opinion of you or your writing or your fine ideas one bit.
with respect,
Steven
Guerilla Gender Warfare is just Hate Speech in polite text
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by Anonymous User on 07:55 AM February 11th, 2004 EST (#8)
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I dont agree, Steven. I think Ray only mentions the tee shirts when they are relevant to the topic being discussed. After all, this is mensACTIVISM and a little activism (such as producing these tee shirts) is probably more valuable than a lot of discussion.
On the subject of Mensactivism and tee shirts, we seem to have forgotten that we are still engaged in a battle with D&M. Anyway, I'm happy to see we have achieved victory number 5. Dillards have announced they are withdrawing the tee shirts from sale. This is the second largest victory of the campaign, after the "Claires" victory.
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the sales pitches don't bother me one bit -
1) it is the message we want to get out there so it doesn't matter whether people see it in a t-shirt or a post,
2) the more shirts get sold, the more the message starts getting out to the public,
3) I'd love to see men's activists be able to start funding some of their own efforts - Todd Goldman makes a lot more money selling male-bashing messages, I don't see ANY reason at all why a men's activism board would have ANY reservations about promoting a means for male-positive messages.
Lighten up, Steven.
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Actually, I thought Ray's sales pitches had gotten a little less frequent of late. And while I'm pleased to see someone taking the initiative to market these things, I was thinking myself that the volume could have been turned down a little.
Might I suggest this, Ray: Whenever you sign a post, put your link at the bottom with a short caption, sort of like an automatic signature on an email. It will be there but unobtrusive, easy to reach for those who are ready to buy. And when the commerce message fits in a post, then mention it, by all means, but don't force it in.
Just an idea. I do like the initiative, though. Keep it up.
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This is a worthy topic for discussion. Ray, please don't take offense at this. Your contributions to this board and to our overall movement are greatly appreciated, and I'm glad you're marketing the T-shirts. You've also offered us the opportunity to kick around the subject of how best (as far as readers' response) to market oneself and one's products on this board.
Hopefully, over time more people will be engaged in marketing items that will aid the gender truth and justice movement. If that happens, I sure won't mind if they let us know about it and provide us with an easy way to purchase the items. For that matter, if it's done subtly, I wouldn't mind knowing about anything that regular contributors to this board can do to help each other out. For example, I don't know what kinds of law he specializes in, but with everything else close to equal (living nearby would be important) if someone tried to sue me after breaking a leg while trying to rob my house, I'd want to find out more about Marc Angelucci's practice. If he signed his posts with a link to his website, this might facilitate matters. Google make that sort of thing pretty easy, but I guess you get my idea -- any used car dealers out there? ;)
On the other hand, maybe I'm oversensitive to spam, maybe it was the all-caps and the bolding, which seemed like shouting, but the sales pitch was just starting to seem a bit much to me.
Frank may have a good idea: If the commerce message fits in a post, definitely put it there. If not, then place a link at the end with your signature.
Just a suggestion. Please keep up all your good work, Ray.
Thomas
-- Creating hostile environments for feminazis since the 1970s.
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If I could have PM'd Ray I would have.
Again Ray, I LIKE your T-shirts, their cool, and I wasn't trying to give you a hard time. And I completely understand the counterpoint of my views, and I respect them. I was just saying what I thought, and I hope no one thought I was being a jerk.
I knew that my post would generate negative and positive responses and expected it.
Once again Ray, no offense was meant.
Steven
Guerilla Gender Warfare is just Hate Speech in polite text
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I don't think Ray was being mercantile. He's just being zealous in his activism.
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by Anonymous User on 07:09 PM February 11th, 2004 EST (#13)
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Thanks for all the good input (feedback). I will try to follow the suggestions. I'd write more now, but I have to go to a protest this weekend and you guessed it, I have signs to make. Should be fun. Tell you more after the event.
Ray
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