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by Anonymous User on 06:36 PM February 4th, 2004 EST (#1)
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"GENDER APARTHIED"
At last, the vile poisonous system that is infecting our lives has a name!
"Hey, Hey, Ho, Ho, GENDER APARTHIED has got to go!"
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by Anonymous User on 08:12 PM February 4th, 2004 EST (#2)
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Feminists have created a system where the mother owns the child like property. And has the power to use this "property" as something to emotionally hurt another human being. And of course their "property", the child, also loses. It is all very ironic.
I myself am glad that my father was booted out of the house and forced to pay the little bit of child support that he repeatedly didn't pay in whole, or tried to get away without paying even though he had some money to do so. Even with the child support we were close to becoming homeless.
The courts made it impossible for him to use the courts as a way to force my mother to send me to him until I became a teenager, and after that I chose not to see him. I have no feelings of love, or even like of him. In fact I mostly have no feelings for him and never actually did.
So, even though I believe fathers are getting a raw deal it is hard for me to understand the need of a father as I grew up with the belief that I was much better off without one and was very glad I didn't have a father. In fact sometimes I've gone so far as to think fatherhood was creepy in general, with some few exceptions. As I've gotten a little older I've recently sort of had a small feeling that it might have been nice to have a 'real' dad. But it is even hard for me to say that because of what my mind automatically makes me feel when I think of fatherhood, and even "fathers rights".
And again this is just my feelings and I do believe fathers should be treated fairly. It is just a very odd thing 'for me' to affliate myself with in anyway.
I'm learning that some fathers have good intentions, but I can't help myself from feeling cynical.
I didn't write to offend anyone and I'm sorry if it did. I just felt like posting some of my different viewpoint that I'm learning isn't totally accurate.
P. George
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Your viewpoint and assessment is entirely valid. However, someone such as I who grew up with a present and loving father can fully attest that you were deprived of one of God's most beautiful and sacred gifts ... the love of your dad.
You simply don't realize what you were deprived of, and it's probably for the best. For if you ever did fully realize what love you lost and never knew you would cry and mourn ... and then you would understand.
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p george
I am so sorry you had to grow up that way. I cannot imagine the harm done in having bad father figure. So I guess if you turn that around, imagine the importance of a good one.
Kids need their dads. Yes, there are some who are jerks. Not every dad is worth the name, and it is no reflection on the children. I truly believe, however, that for the vast majority, their dads are worth having around. And having them around is worth fighting for. Think about it. Seeing your dad may not have given you a role model of what to become, but it did give you a role model of what not to become. So even if it was a negative impact, it was an important one all the same. And as one who thinks you turned out pretty damn good, I think it was worth it.
Of course you can feel free to tell me to mind my own business too.
MHO, The Biscuit Queen
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by Anonymous User on 01:41 PM February 5th, 2004 EST (#13)
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I am one of the lucky ones.
I had, and still have a dad.
It is primarily because of him (and my Mom, too) that I was brought up to be as fair minded as possible.
That is why I speak out for the rights of all people. Not just Indians and other minorities, not just for women, but for MEN as well.
For EVERY one.
My father was/is not always the best role model, but he usualy was/is.
Yeah, I'm one of the lucky ones.
I can't imagine how I might have turned out if not for my dad...,
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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by Anonymous User on 07:31 PM February 5th, 2004 EST (#15)
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"That is why I speak out for the rights of all people. Not just Indians and other minorities, not just for women, but for MEN as well.
For EVERY one."
Yeah, feminists say they have solidarity with all peoples, but their actions prove otherwise. Their actions prove louder than words. I told a hypocritical feminist once that "a philosophy truly based on equality would 'act' on it, for both men and women".
I freely admit I don't know all that much about the American Indian movement/s. But I believe your people have been treated most fairly, and it's not right. I hope someday that instead of demanding your people conform to our culture, we humble ourselves and finally learn something from yours. I don't believe Indians are being listened to.
I want people to just be treated fairly. Even these fathers who seem to be getting a raw deal. It is hard for me to not be distrustful of fathers rights activists and their intentions. But I do not believe that an uncaring father will shut down roads, block them, get arrested, sit in front of arrogant judges, pay fines {even some women} and such, if they were being treated fairly. I guess even if they aren't the best fathers, they should be listened to.
I think all people should be treated fairly, and even though it is quite hard for me, that's what I think about when my feelings of distrust and even a little bit of nausea comes up when I think of 'fathers rights'. I mean obviously somethings wrong, people just dont go to these lengths if their voices are being heard.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not some "perfect" bleeding hearted liberal. Sometimes I don't think I have any feelings at all.
p. george
{jenk, just in case you didn't see, I replied to you in a post somewhere below this one.}
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I didn't write to offend anyone and I'm sorry if it did. I just felt like posting some of my different viewpoint that I'm learning isn't totally accurate.
P. George,
Not even a twinge offensive. Just honest.
I have a recommendation of sorts. I picked up the book Iron John by Robert Bly about a decade ago. I was curious to see what all the buzz was about. I didn't get very far before I put it away. It just seemed to be a guy obsessed with making connections between various fairy tales.
2 years ago, I started it again. One point early in the book about "stealing the key from under the mother's pillow" made sense to me. The rest was gobbledygook. I'm re-reading it now and understanding much more of it.
There is a section about being alienated from the father, especially an absent one, and a natural move for a man eventually from the world of the mother to the world of the father.
My point being, I guess, that you might leaf through it at a bookstore. If it doesn't grab you, keep it in mind and maybe check it out again a few years down the road.
Larry
ADULT: What you are once you've run out of excuses.
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by Anonymous User on 12:05 AM February 5th, 2004 EST (#10)
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Larry, maybe I'll check out that book when I'm at the bookstore, I've heard the name before.
jenk--"Think about it. Seeing your dad may not have given you a role model of what to become, but it did give you a role model of what not to become. So even if it was a negative impact, it was an important one all the same."
I never thought of it that way, it's positive. I'm trying to think more positive. I liked your whole post. thanks
p. george
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Here's what's ugly, and something you have also to deal with.
You grew up with one side of the story. and one thing you said, namely The courts made it impossible for him to use the courts as a way to force my mother to send me to him until I became a teenager also says he wasn't around through his choice.
I know someone else who went through something similar to you, and once he found out the truth, he has chosen to give the next 20 (less about 6 now) years to his father, because he found out his dad was driven out of and kept from his life. Of course, this means Grandma is losing out on her grandkids, but it's poetic, if bitter, justice.
I certainly don't envy you when you have to pick that one up and give it an honest look.
* Putting the SMACKDOWN on Feminazis since 1989! *
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by Anonymous User on 09:17 AM February 5th, 2004 EST (#11)
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I can see what you're saying about your friend I can understand why you might have that viewpoint, I wasn't clear on why the courts did that.
The only way he could use the courst to make me see him as a teenager is if somehow the courst approved, and there would also have to be a chaparone approved by the courts.
I really don't have much or any feelings for him, so this all bothers me very little.
p. george
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It is so unfortunately common in these times of rampant, state-sanctioned destruction of families that custodial parents (still 90% of the time the mother) are permitted to wage a subtle or blatant campaign of vindictive revenge against the "ex"-dad using the kids as weapon-of-choice.
In essense, that's what fathers become after a divorce... an EX-dad. An absentee wallet. A transient visitor in the family he created and once supported and lived within daily.
There's a good word for this syndrome - PARENTECTOMY - coined by Frank S. Williams, M.D.
(http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/pas-neer.htm )
Excerpt - "Parentectomy is the removal, erasure, or severe diminution of a caring parent in a child's life, following separation or divorce.
... A parentectomy is the most cruel infringement upon children's rights to be carried out against human children by human adults. Parentectomies are psychologically lethal to children and parents. ...
In the worst consequential wake of a parentectomy, the victim parent gives up and walks away... He or she knows that the chronic war in which one parent tries to erase the other parent, and the other parent struggles to stave off the parentectomy, is itself destructive to the children...
On the other hand, if a mother or father gives up and walks away from the war, the children feel abandoned by a loved and needed parent, and usually resent and become depressed over the abandonment."
It is long overdue for our Anti-Family Courts to feel the rage of fathers, mothers, grandparents, and children everywhere who are suffering under a feminist-imposed regime of judicial terrorism.
"It's a terrible thing ... living in fear."
- Roy: hunted replicant, Blade Runner
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by Anonymous User on 08:25 PM February 4th, 2004 EST (#3)
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Thank you very much, Ms. Woodman.
I'm impressed with your commitment to justice. I'm impresssed with your compassion. I'm impressed with your courage.
Give the world a couple of thousand women like Jayne Woodman, and justice will flower like daffodils in the spring.
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"Give the world a couple of thousand women like Jayne Woodman, and justice will flower like daffodils in the spring."
Very nicely put, and I agree entirely.
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I don't know how to reply to a commitment from a woman like her except that maybe we could write a few letters to the newspaper to forward to MS WOODMAN to thank her for her support.
Kinda sad how the biggest story isn't these men completely putting their "life" on hold to be with their children, but how a woman is helping out.
Don't get me wrong, she's a GODSEND and I am TRULY thankful for her. But it's a sad commentary on our society that the lace curtain lifted to spotlight a woman who has her kids and who supports fathers who don't.
Thank you Ms Woodman, you're one classy woman.
Steven
Guerilla Gender Warfare is just Hate Speech in polite text
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Ms. Woodman is a true hero, and gives me some hope for the female race. The Biscuit Queen
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You two seem to be of the same stock Jen. So tell us, does being a men's activist come innately to you? Were you born that way and if so, can we get a DNA sample for analysis? Was there something that just really clicked with you in a book or were you "recruited" somehow? Did Dave have a role in it? Is his Svengali like mastery over you the real root of it all? Does he teach lessons?
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Svengali mastery? HAHAHAHA!
HAHAHA!
ROTFLMAO!!!!
Anyways..*snicker* He actually did have everything to do with it, but more mulish German stubbornness and those damn good research skills is what did it. **Hahahaha!** (sorry, I will try to stop) He started not backing down after making such outlandish statements as "I think men have had it as hard throughout history as women" and "women have more influence over the government than men do" and "If we got a divorce I [Dave] would be screwed and you [me] would be set for life."
I thought he was full of $hit, but he just put out the numbers and let me stew. And argue, and stew, and get mad, and stew.
The of course he got me on here where I immediately got in an arguement with Gonzo, Ray and Warble. I left for a few months, stewing.
I slowly started looking into things, and the facts and stories started overcoming the years of indoctrination.
Anyways, once I start thinking about something, I tend to either really get for it or against it. I don't do things halfway. So here I am. For all this stuff. And since I am a loud obnoxious Italian, everyone and their brother knows about it.
So in a nut shell, make some statements, put out facts, and patience.
That and Svengali Mastery...HAHAHAHAHA!!!
The Biscuit Queen
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Well... Jen's had a bit of fun there, a good chuckle at my expense, no doubt. Now lets see about a little payback. :)
IMO Jen has always been an activist looking for a cause, when I met her she was a vegetarian anti fur pro-choice liberal living on a land trust (kindof like a commune... and no I'm not kidding!).
Her problem through those years was that her parents endowed her with WAY too much common sense for those sorts of causes, but it'd been buried under teenage immaturity. I met her at a point where common sense was starting to get the upper hand, lets see...
She fell off the fur bandwagon after she went to a fur trappers convention to protest and ended up talking with the trappers all day. She forgot all about the fact that to blindly hate someone you really can't listen to their side of the story. Jeeze... it turned out most trappers are down to earth guys who just love the outdoors, they're not horrible evil creatures that torture small furry animals for the fun of it.
She got was tired of the commune thing when she realized that "decision by unanimous commitee agreement" is no way to live your life. "Lets see, 4 are voting for Split Pea soup for dinner tomorrow, 6 for Lentil, we've been deadlocked for two hours... no one goes to bed until we resolve this! Lets all talk about how this makes us feel". Well... that and the fact that people who live in those places are twits (come to think of it... to call them twits is an insult to real twits). She did give it a try, but I came along about then, we were together pretty quickly thereafter.
She fell off the vegetarian bandwagon when I reintroduced her to the joys of Bacon (MMMM... BACON!). I basically got her to concede that it wasn't mean she opposed, but rather inhumanity of factory farming. Of course I come from a small farm family... so all the meat I bought from them was free range. Didn't take too much bacon to grease up that slippery slope.
I guess you could say I corrupted her in many ways. Back then she really wasn't a great debater (I broke her of all those bad habits fairly easily), but in the last 10 years she's learned a LOT and now she's using all my own tactics against me. I expect her to whip out her lightsaber and quip: "The circle is now complete. When I met you, I was but the learner. Now I am the master." Getting her involved in mens rights took a LONG time and a lot of debate (and a few plain 'ole fights). Now of course she's more active than I am... so as I said... she's an activist looking for a cause, and our two boys are plenty of cause.
Dave K - A Radical Moderate
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by Anonymous User on 02:24 PM February 8th, 2004 EST (#19)
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We can never praise too loudly the efforts of the Mothers, Sisters, Daughters, Grandmothers, 2nd Wives, Cousins, etc. of battered and abused men who stand up for them.
Here is an American (1860's to 1890's) "tin photograph" that expresses my sentiments more succinctly: Men Cherish.
If the young woman in that photograph were alive today I estimate she would be somewhere between 130 and 180 years old.
Sincerely, Ray
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