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"There's nothing wrong with girl power, but it shouldn't be achieved at the cost of boys," she said. "We shouldn't be putting down boys to lift up girls."
This is excellent! This was the last sentance in the article, spoken by a feminist!
Matyeb I am too tired to read between the lines, but I thought it was a great article, and by far the most well rounded one yet.
The Biscuit Queen
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Matyeb?
Where the heck did that come from?
I meant maybe. M A Y B E
ack!
TBQ
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Matyeb! Iquatha! Ia, Ia! Phnglui m'gwalnaf Cthulhu R'leyeh magnagl Fthagn! Matyeb! Yog-Sothoth! Matyeb!
Ooops. Sorry. Just invoking some dark Masculist Demon-Gods. We must keep the lurking Pheminuts entertained, musn't we?
* Putting the SMACKDOWN on Feminazis since 1989! *
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I almost forgot you knew how to laugh Gonzo. Good to hear it again!!! *(except for the :
"I AM VISHNU .. DESTROYER OF WORLDS .. BOW BEFORE ME " post on SYG)
THAT was funny
Steven
Guerilla Gender Warfare is just Hate Speech in polite text
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"Matyeb! Iquatha! Ia, Ia! Phnglui m'gwalnaf Cthulhu R'leyeh magnagl Fthagn! Matyeb! Yog-Sothoth! Matyeb!"
Dude, I thought for sure Cthulu was going to come out of the floorboards...
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I've been working major overtime with this whole virus and worm going around. I'm just a bit slap-happy.
I don't know who I'm madder at, the TERRORISTS who write these things, or the MORONS who open the &@%#$*! emails. Fuck-knuckles.
Proof positive of the statistical fact that half the people in the world are below average intellegence.
* Putting the SMACKDOWN on Feminazis since 1989! *
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Why settle for the lesser evil?
Ack!
Non Illegitimi Carborundum, and KOT!
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Gonzo, Careful! The ones aren't allowed to hear the secret language of twos. Nwaguale sufrwis alwana!
The Biscuit Queen
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by Anonymous User on 12:29 PM February 5th, 2004 EST (#19)
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...'the hell...?
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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The score at the heading of each post. Trolls are -1, anons are 0, then you have 1 and 2 for regular loggged in posters. If I tell you any more I will have to kill you.
The Biscuit Queen
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by Anonymous User on 08:20 PM February 5th, 2004 EST (#31)
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Gotcha.
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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To much Lovecraft.... just ... came off... Reanimator binge...
Go Pods!!
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Of course, as ever, it focuses on how the D&G stuff harms *women*.
In fact, it does harm women by increasing the background level of hostility which men feel toward them. Men who a few years ago would have stopped to help any woman stranded trying to change a tire by herself, now won't. The harm is indirect, but women are being held in lower and lower regard as the result of the behavior of women like this. Men are helping women less and less, and becoming ever more indifferent to real problems they might have.
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You know, I've seen this point, and for the first time tonight I had that experience rise in myself. I was raised to be a gentleman, and to always offer my seat to a lady. Well tonight at the restaurant, I got a seat in the waiting room for my daughter and I and then two ladies came in. Normally I would have offered them my seat, but today something in my head clicked and I thought, "That's right. They want equality. First come, first served." Felt wierd. But nice. I was tired and liked the sitting. :)
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by Anonymous User on 12:20 AM February 5th, 2004 EST (#7)
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"That's right. They want equality. First come, first served."
I've thought that same thing too. I mean how can someone be treated more equal than another? You can't have it go both ways.
"Of course, as ever, it focuses on how the D&G stuff harms *women*."
This is always the case. I mean what if the shirts said the same thing about girls and talked about how this negatively affects men? Men would be seen as not just selfish but narcissistic.
Interestingly I just grabbed a nearby thesaurus to see if I spelled "narcissistic" right, and this is what it has to say.
"An egotistical, narcissistic man won't make a good husband".
I doubt they would use the above quote switching the gender to women. Imagine finding this in the Thesaurus
"An egotistical, narcissistic woman won't make a good wife".
Now if it said that I would have found it very ammusing, after the initial shock. What a joke
P. Geoge
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" You know, I've seen this point, and for the first time tonight I had that experience rise in myself. I was raised to be a gentleman, and to always offer my seat to a lady. Well tonight at the restaurant, I got a seat in the waiting room for my daughter and I and then two ladies came in. Normally I would have offered them my seat, but today something in my head clicked and I thought, "That's right. They want equality. First come, first served." Felt wierd. But nice. I was tired and liked the sitting. :)"
I believe in giving up my seat to someone who truly needs it--an elderly person, a woman with three kids who's holding two bags of groceries, a handicapped man, and so forth. I believe in generosity and common courtesy, not gender-based rules. I hold the door for both males and females and both males and females hold the door for me. Maybe people are more level-headed here then where some of you live (meaning I'm luckier than you are), but I really haven't come across these double standards in person as much.
It's fine if you stayed put in your seat, and for all we know the two women who came in after you were fine with it, too.
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Yea, I know it was fine, and yes, I will give up my seat to elderly or burdened people of both sexes and hold the door for both and all that... I'm just saying that it felt very strange to have that idea well up in me instead of instinctively doing what I was trained to do.
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Well, I'm fifty years old now, and while I don't regard myself as old, I've encountered this situation recently, too. It happens I had fallen off a ladder this past summer and broke two vertebrae, and was wearing a back brace at the time. A young woman in a waiting room actually got up for ME! I thanked her and sat down. (It hurt to stand.)
I don't think of holding doors or offering seats as something I do for women. I think of doing those things for people less able, because of infirmity or burden, than me to do them, or I think of them as a common courtesy. I find myself holding doors as often for men as I do for women. I will not offer my seat to an able young woman, and in fact, I expect that, in the case described above, one should be offered to me (though I choose not to complain when it is not).
I will say that it somehow felt liberating to go to a restaurant one day last year and NOT offer a seat to any of the women in the room (they were all as able as me), but to offer it to an old man with a cane.
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zenpriest:"Men who a few years ago would have stopped to help any woman stranded trying to change a tire by herself, now won't. "
This is especially true since we are shown commercials like the Secret deodorant commercial with the woman changing the tire of a man's car. Then the narrator says something like "Strong enough for the woman that already does everything."
Yup. I guess women don't need us at all anymore, unless *they* decide they want a man to do the work instead. Oh goody.
R
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by Anonymous User on 12:41 PM February 5th, 2004 EST (#21)
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I don't stop to help a woman change a tire for the same reason PLUS one other; I think any woman would wet her pants to see a nearly 6ft tall, barrel chested Indian man wearing long black-leather-silver-studded braid wraps, ear rings and wearing tons of silver and turqouise jewelry.
AAAAAIIIIEEEEE!!!!
So, no. I don't stop either. unless it looks like a dire emergecy.
Thundercloud.
Hoka hey!"
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"So, no. I don't stop either. unless it looks like a dire emergecy. "
I also would not stop to help unless there was an emergency, but this is because I know absolutely nothing about car, mechanics or fixing or anything :)
I just hate the idea that is so established in our modern society, that a woman should despise and reject me when *I* want something (even if the want is mutually beneficial) but then *I* am supposed to drop everything and bend over backwards to help HER simply because I am a person that was born as a male.
R
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In fact, it does harm women by increasing the background level of hostility which men feel toward them.... Men are helping women less and less, and becoming ever more indifferent to real problems they might have.
Actually most men are feeling indifference, not hostility towards them. males are helping females, less and less. This is true, in the environment that women are capable of doing anything and men can do nothing why can they not change their own tire.
Come on commercials are now dedicated showing women are better at changing tires than men, so they should be stopping to help you.
Personally if I am in a position to help someone who's vehicle is disabled, I would try to the best of my ability to assist them.
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Actually most men are feeling indifference, not hostility towards them.
I get pretty skeptical when anyone makes a categorical statement about what "most men" think, feel, want, etc.
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"Quisenberry does not see the trend as a "feminist" plot against pre-teen boys"
Who said it was? Sacks didn't say it. Nobody who posted here said it. I haven't seen that said on any other boards. Seems pretending that we think it's a "feminist plot" is a way of trivializing us so that our arguments become deemed unworthy of being listened to, especially when we talk about legitimate greivances against feminism. Please learn to be aware of this strategy and point it out immediately whenever you encounter it. Being dismissed by the general public as kooks who think "everything" is a feminist plot is a real dangerous problem that we need to make sure to avoid. It is important that we point out that we do not think "everything" is a feminist plot, and only hold feminism accountable for what feminism is responsible for.
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by Anonymous User on 12:45 PM February 5th, 2004 EST (#22)
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Weird, isn't it? that feminists can claim EVERYTHING is a "male plot", and they don't loose one bit of credibility. In fact they seem to GAIN it, with the public.
Ahh, yes, if every thing truly WAS equal...,
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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by Anonymous User on 07:45 AM February 5th, 2004 EST (#11)
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"Boys are Stupid, Throw Rocks at Them" isn't just a slogan on stupid, misandristic merchandise. It is merely a small part in a the serious denial of the problem of domestic violence against males. See e.g. Professor Mills article:
http://mensnewsdaily.com/archive/m-n/mills/03/mill s120203.htm
Progressives (and everyone else) should recognize the connection between this D&G misandry and a much larger injustice that men face.
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by Anonymous User on 09:58 AM February 5th, 2004 EST (#12)
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"Progressives (and everyone else) should recognize the connection between this D&G misandry and a much larger injustice that men face."
Absolutely agree. That said, I don't alternet will be putting articles about misandry on their front page anytime soon, the issue having been miscast as being one that only conservatives are concerned about. However, some of my progressive friends agree with me on these issues, but only in private.
In reference to Prof. Mills article, I was listening to the responses to the D&G campaign on HisSide and I was struck by how many of the callers used the term "whining" in reference to Glenn Sacks. Has anyone else notice how this term is used to shame and silence men speaking up for themselves?? I'm so sick of it.
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by Anonymous User on 10:00 AM February 5th, 2004 EST (#13)
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oops. This comment is from Jack Spratt.
I really should look up my password. ;)
"Progressives (and everyone else) should recognize the connection between this D&G misandry and a much larger injustice that men face."
Absolutely agree. That said, I don't alternet will be putting articles about misandry on their front page anytime soon, the issue having been miscast as being one that only conservatives are concerned about. However, some of my progressive friends agree with me on these issues, but only in private.
In reference to Prof. Mills article, I was listening to the responses to the D&G campaign on HisSide and I was struck by how many of the callers used the term "whining" in reference to Glenn Sacks. Has anyone else notice how this term is used to shame and silence men speaking up for themselves?? I'm so sick of it."
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Has anyone else notice how this term ("whining") is used to shame and silence men speaking up for themselves??
All the time, brother. All the time.
At the moment, my preferred response is "Whatever." and then go on with what I was saying.
Larry
ADULT: What you are once you've run out of excuses.
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by Anonymous User on 07:59 PM February 5th, 2004 EST (#28)
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It is good to see progressives within mens activism. I have some same values as progressives, but not exactly. Nor am I conservative.
I've been told by what people might call a "left" activist, that he knew two guys who felt they were being sexually harrassed by some women. They were afraid to speak out against it because if they did they would have to deal with all the women ganging up on them.
He also said "feminism is rife with double standards".
I highly doubt he would publicily say this to his fellow activists. So I think there is some silencing of men within the "matriarchy". (although, since I hate feminists use the word patriarchy so damn much I'll try to refrain from saying "matriarchy").
P. George
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by Anonymous User on 08:01 PM February 5th, 2004 EST (#29)
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by the way, the conversation with the guy was over the internet.
p. george
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I can sympathise with him. I'm mostly left-inclined, and I've been to all sorts of protests that have nothing whatsoever to do with feminism but there are always people there with feminist banners. I don't feel like I can speak out against the majority of them.
Sometimes I have to keep reminding myself that I'm there for other reasons...
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....with your last comment that the article focuses on how this affects women and girls. I saw this as the most male-sympathetic article about this case that's been written. A number of people who are appalled by the anti-boy shirts are interviewed--of both genders.
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by Anonymous User on 09:45 AM February 7th, 2004 EST (#34)
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Oh totally! It is definitely one of the most balanced articles yet and I was quite pleased with it overall.
I guess what I was trying to say (and perhaps I was just in a pessimisticly nitpicky mood) is that when the article describes possible harmful effects of the merchandise (i.e. the appeal to self interest of the reader or the selling point), and not just theoretical "ethics" about right and wrong, they only talk about effects on women. I would really have liked it if they had at least mentioned boys' currently low achievement levels in school and what effect being told they're stupid might have on this problem.
Jack Spratt
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by Anonymous User on 01:23 PM February 8th, 2004 EST (#35)
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Here's a message from our T-shirt site to people who sell or wear "Throw Rocks at Boys" T-shirts:
Men Are Not Disposable.
Ray
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