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by Anonymous User on Monday January 19, @03:38PM EST (#1)
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To Whom It May Concern:
I am writing to express my strong displeasure over the hateful and violent products manufactured by, "David and Goliath" that you sell in your stores, i.e., "Boys are Stupid Throw Rocks at Them," "Stupid Factory Where Boys are Made," "Boys Make Nice Pets Everyone Should Own One," etc., etc.
In a time when billions of dollars are being spent in America to end domestic violence and child abuse, I find it appalling that such products should be manufactured, or found, in any market in our society.
According to the Family Violence Prevention Funds web site, such behavior contributing to violence by any "entity of influence" is one to be shamed by all of society. They in fact, have just such a "Hall of Shame" for those who are so socially irresponsible as to contribute to domestic violence in our society.
Personally, I consider this to be child abuse as well as domestic violence, and bordering on hate crime such as the Jews experienced at the hands of the Nazis in the time just preceding WWII. Acceptance of such demonization of a group, eventually paved the way for that society to accept one of the most horrendous persecutions in the history of the world.
I adamantly request that you immediately cease and desist from selling this abhorrent product in any of your stores ever again.
Sincerely,
Ray
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Dear Mr/Ms.....
I am writing to object to Claire's current practice of carrying David & Goliath's products which include the "Boys are Stupid, Throw Rocks at Them" t-shirts. I don't need to outline the reasons why, do I? You know that such products are indefensible.
Bon-Macy's, Tilly's and Universal Studios have already wisely pulled these products from their shelves. You can do the same or you can continue selling them and face continued protests from people concerned about the welfare of boys and have Claire's become known as "The Store that Hates Boys."
It's your choice.
Sincerely,
Larry
The source of all power is the ability to say "No."
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"Claire's: The Store that Hates Boys."
Claire's: The Store that Hates Your Sons."
Say, that has a nice ring to it.
AP - Los Angeles,
"Despite socially responsible decisions by a number of retailers to cease and desist selling a line of clothing which advocates child abuse, Claire's and Icing have seemed to be quite comfortable with the image as "The store which hates your sons."
"Following in the footsteps of the now bankrupt Gadzooks, which saw it's sales fall by 1/3rd and its stock price fall by 83% following its corporate decision to hate boys, Claire's has obviously decided what are a few gouged-out eyes when it is all in good fun, particularly if it is only boys' eyes which are being gouged out."
"Irate parents and concerned citizens by the thousands have deluged Claire's with protests, only to receive dismissal of their concerns regarding what the line terms "one of their best sellers." Obviously, H.L. Mencken was correct when he observed that no one ever went broke because they underestimated the intelligence, or good taste, of the American public. "
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Here's mine... to the loquacious "Marla"... Claire's well-rewarded CEO ...
Dear Marla,
As a responsible corporate executive you must have the "bottom line" of your company in mind as you administer daily to your firm's well-being.
It has come to the attention of literally millions of potential consumers of "Claire's" that your outlets worldwide vend a hateful and discriminatory product by the "David and Goliath Company" that reviles boys in sloganed tee-shirts with such abominable logos as "Boys Are Stupid... Throw Rocks at Them" and numerous other sexist and vile phrases.
As the father of two daughters, I have spent hundreds of dollars at Claire's over the years, and have been very satisfied with the store's merchandise and excellent service.
Nontheless, I will not spend another nickel at Claire's until I am satisfied that ALL "David and Goliath" product has been permanently banned from your inventory.
Claire's has always been a consumerist magnet for young girls.
What are you THINKING in endorsing the hateful and misandrist (look it up!) merchandise that encourages girls to demean and denigrate boys and men?
My purchasing power awaits your decision!
"A very concerned customer,"
"It's a terrible thing ... living in fear."
- Roy: hunted replicant, Blade Runner
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I would encourage people to choose to write their own as individual letters tend to do a little better than everyone sending copies of the same letter, or to at least put a couple personalizing touches onto Zenpriest's well written letter.
I'm not at all sure, but the more I think about it, the more I believe that duplicate letters are just as effective as personalized ones. If I were one of the people on the receiving end, I would read maybe the first 4 or 5 and then just start counting emails.
If anything, it might be advantageous for them to see a bunch of identical letters. It wouldn't hurt Glenn's negotiating power for them to have the impression that he has a hoard of obedient dittoheads at his beck and call. :-)
Larry
The source of all power is the ability to say "No."
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In addition to simply emailing or calling the corporate HQ, they have a store locator web page -
http://www.claires.com/cgi-bin/mqinterconnect.exe? link=store_locator
Note the ones in your vicinity, and print out a copy of the email you send. Then drop the copies off at any of the stores you happen to pass by - for the store manager and other employees. If you really want to rattle a few cages, print out a couple of dozen copies, then pass them out to any customers in the store or headed into the stores. The mall police will certainly make you cease and desist, but they probably won't get down to the store and away from their donuts fast enough to catch you.
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by Anonymous User on Monday January 19, @05:24PM EST (#8)
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What geographic area are these stores located in?
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They have nearly 3000 stores, all over the world - or at least the US and Europe.
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by Anonymous User on Monday January 19, @09:54PM EST (#16)
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Thomas:
Thanks, that helped. There are a bunch in the L.A. area. It's a holiday today so they are probably closed, hence no word from them about pulling this line. If they don't pull these items in the next day or two I'm going to start making a picket sign, and prepare to picket stores starting this weekend.
How's this for a picket sign against these T-shirts?
BOYCOTT T-SHIRTS
CLAIRE'S SELLS
ADVOCATING
CHILD ABUSE
AGAINST BOYS
Ray
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why not drop the "against boys" and just leave it that Claire's sells products advocating child abuse?
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by Anonymous User on Monday January 19, @10:54PM EST (#24)
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I think it's good to include both. I think if it were only against children in general, it wouldn't be anywhere near as accepted. It's mostly, or only, because it's against *male* children that it sells like this without public outcry or anger from feminist or anti-violence groups. The male-targetting nature of it all is an essential factor to why it's considered funny and OK, and that needs addressing.
NCFM-LA sent an email similar to the one we sent Universal Studios, so I won't bother posting it and will instead post one from member Harry Crouch, below.
Marc
_______________
From: Harry Crouch
To:
CC: bonnies.chaefer@claires.com>,, s.com>,
Subject: Your line "throw rocks at little boys..."
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 18:31:51 -0800
I understand Claire's stores sells products advocating throwing rocks at little boys because they are dumb.
Why don't you carry a line saying something to the effect "Rape little girls, they are available." Or, "Hit little girls with a baseball bat, they can't run very fast."
Not laughing? Me either. I have son who is now defending your right to be jerks. He's in the Army in Iraq. Maybe you'd like to throw rocks at him too?
Whoever made the decision to carry the "throw rocks..." line should be fired and banned from humanity; or, at least sent north of the Arctic Circle without winter gear, preferably in February if not sooner.
I will never step foot in one of your stores. Additionally, my email list includes close to two thousand names. I'm sending this along to my friends and asking them never to step foot in one of your stores, too.
I cannot even conceive the mentality of people who would design or sell such products. If this is what happens when women become corporate leaders, then maybe my years of work advocating for equal opportunity for women was not only wasted, but wholly counterproductive.
Don't any of you people have children? If so, and some of them are little boys, you must be one caring parent to ask people to throw rocks at them because they are dumb. If I knew where you lived I would personally escort Child Protective Services to your front door and bribe them to let me put on the handcuffs.
Sincerely,
Harry A. Crouch
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by Anonymous User on Monday January 19, @11:44PM EST (#32)
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That was beautiful, I think that made the point in spades. If that doesn't get their attention, someone should check their pulse.
Ray
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by Anonymous User on Monday January 19, @11:13PM EST (#25)
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I agree. That was my approach in my email.
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by Anonymous User on Monday January 19, @11:15PM EST (#26)
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Then, after the mall police chase you away, march into the Mall Office and demand to know if they are going to continue to rent space to these bigots.
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I took 5 minutes and wrote a quick message, though I decided against the polite route this time...
""Boys are Stupid, Throw rocks at them"????
What the hell are you thinking by allowing these shirts to be sold in your stores? Is "Promoter's of child abuse" really the image you want to be associated with your company?
Get this hate propaganda out of your stores immediately or I will launch a very public lawsuit against your company for violating hate crime legislation as defined by 18 U.S.C. Section 245."
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Claire's is publicly traded, and after what happened to Gadzooks's stock, they have to be a bit sensitive to their stock price. One of the most effective forms of pressure brought on South Africa to end apartheid was disvesture of holdings in any South African companies.
Claire's is obviously trying to build their stock price by putting a link to sharebuilder.com right on their corporate page.
http://www.sharebuilder.com/about_us/ir/claire's_s tores/index_ir.htm
Perhaps some complaints to sharebuilder about "child abuse 'R us" would be in order.
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To the Management of Claire’s;
As a father of girls (and a young man) and the uncle of many nieces, I have spent much money in your stores. I come to you tonight having returned merchandise totaling over $90, which was to be gifts for my Niece’s birthday, and notifying you that you will never again receive a plug nickel of my money until you remove the filth that is David and Goliath t-shirts from your shelves. And you come to your senses by this weekend, my last valuable shopping day, and I might spend my money again
I would be willing to wager that if anyone were to display such shirts that had girl-bashing incitements to violence and degradation on them, and ask you to carry them in your stores, you would recoil like a vampire faced with garlic and a crucifix. How you can in conscience display such garbage and claim to love your sons is frankly baffling to me.
As if this wasn’t bad enough, this company also produces t-shirts which are blatantly racist in nature, and example of which is here at http://www.davidandgoliathtees.com/new/lines/image s/thumbs/1469.gif. I am sure, once I get finished plastering this all over the internet, you will be receiving many other letters from other sources questioning your judgement in carrying this offensive, sexist, misandrist, and racist product line.
Finally, as an internet columnist featured at Men’s News Daily, I will be joining Glenn Sacks in his campaign against this trash; I promise that not a day will pass without it being mentioned prominently in my column or on my internationally linked Blog. It remains to be seen, based on your decision, whether Claire’s will be mentioned as a friend of decency, or as a partner who is aiding and abetting the purveyors of violence, smut, hatred, and racism.
Sincerely;
Peter S. Jensen
* Putting the SMACKDOWN on Feminazis since 1989! *
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by Anonymous User on Monday January 19, @10:00PM EST (#17)
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Gonzo:
Great response. I loved it. It will be a reassurance to know when I am solitarily picketing one of there stores (as my schedule permits) with a big sign I really will not be alone.
Thanks buddy,
Ray
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by Anonymous User on Monday January 19, @11:17PM EST (#27)
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Hey Ray, too bad they are the ones selling this shirt. You could wear this fashionable accessory out picketing or outside your favorite manhaters convention.
http://www.davidandgoliathtees.com/new/lines/defau lt.asp?mode=S&product_id=1515&page=10&category_id= 9
P.George
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by Anonymous User on Monday January 19, @11:19PM EST (#28)
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You have to put the word 'defau lt' together.
p.george
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by Anonymous User on Monday January 19, @11:55PM EST (#33)
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That should get their attention.
By the way here's one from our new Mensbiz T-shirt shop that's different, but also addresses the issue:
http://www.cafeshops.com/mensbiz.9447828
Ray
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get a load of this piece of shit.
http://www.davidandgoliathtees.com/new/lines/defau lt.asp?mode=S&product_id=28&page=1&category_id=1
it looks like sambo to me
i'am thinking of sending it to some one in the naacp just to see what they think.
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Have a look at the text in the upper left hand corner of that screen -
"We all know that boys are smelly, have cooties, pick their nose when no one is looking, and are really stupid... so stupid you should throw rocks at them. Just remember to aim."
Can hate possibly be made any more obvious?
Hey Jen and Dave, these are YOUR sons they are talking about!
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These are the fruits of feminism.
but, is it only feminists who are buying them for their daughters? or ordinary soccer moms?
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ZP you well know...
The millions of soccer moms who mindlessly "think" that by adorning their daughters with these misandrist fashions they are "reaffirming" their female child's "empowerment..."
What say you to this mass delusion among our much-respected female populace?
Ne. .... our mothers, daughters, wives, girlfriends, and the occasional honorable concubine?
"It's a terrible thing ... living in fear."
- Roy: hunted replicant, Blade Runner
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by Anonymous User on Tuesday January 20, @12:16AM EST (#34)
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The millions of soccer moms who mindlessly "think" that by adorning their daughters with these misandrist fashions they are "reaffirming" their female child's "empowerment..."
Great point! I've talked to a lot of women (Soccer Mom types) who say they don't like feminism and like good old fashioned chivalry, but when you get to know them you see how much of the Pheminut agenda has been mainstreamed into their Soccer Mom mentality.
In other words they don't admit to having all the standard feminist expectations, along with all the other expectations of chivalries privileges (that they been liberated from), but they do.
Clearly this kind of female empowerment means females having everything, while men have nothing, not even cover to hide from rock throwing feminist batterers.
Where is all the outrage that would be present if these T-shirts were attacking females? Why is one group (males) so hated and despised in America that this product line not only made it into production, but has established itself and sold millions and millions of dollars worth of merchandise?
Clearly, this is further proof that American society under 30 years of feminastyism has become just that sexist and hostile to all males.
Ray
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Great point! I've talked to a lot of women (Soccer Mom types) who say they don't like feminism and like good old fashioned chivalry, but when you get to know them you see how much of the Pheminut agenda has been mainstreamed into their Soccer Mom mentality.
And that, too, is a great point, Ray. Far too many women that claim they aren't feminists far too readily buy into the lies and hatred of feminism. These women like taking the advantages that the lies and hatred give them, they just don't like having to pay the price now that, society wide, it's coming time to pay the piper.
Even for the women that say they aren't feminists, this hatred is the fruit of feminist philosophy. I'm old enough to remember a time when men and women didn't have anything near the amount of animosity betweem them that we see today, though even back then it was not acceptable to hit girls, but it was standard procedure to brutalize boys (witness the nuns in Catholic schools).
-- Creating hostile environments for feminazis since the 1970s.
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Great point! I've talked to a lot of women (Soccer Mom types) who say they don't like feminism and like good old fashioned chivalry, but when you get to know them you see how much of the Pheminut agenda has been mainstreamed into their Soccer Mom mentality.
Most of the women I know who claim to like chivalry are simply gourmet shoppers who help themselves to a few “traditional” dishes at the women’s-lifestyle buffet.
With the influence of eons of chivalry and a few decades of intense feminism the average western woman now enjoys whatever combination of entitlements, whether traditional or “feminist”, that she finds convenient at any given time.
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I have a friend who does the same thing-she loves her boys and husband but cannot let go of the indoctrination. I don't fault her for it,completely, as she said, "If I was to believe you that means everything i have been taught has been a lie."
Yes. Exactly.
It will take a long time for women to start waking up. It is like trying to wake up your hand after it falls asleep. It really stings.
The Biscuit Queen
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It will take a long time for women to start waking up.
That's what worries me; and bewilders me; and angers me. Why cling so tightly to a lie which is known to be a lie? Why prefer a lie over the truth? What kind of person does? Unfortunately, that appears to be the kind of people most women have become.
I personally think it is too late. On the ifeminists site there is a letter from a guy who says he thinks the status of women will be very poor by the middle of the century. I tend to agree. I think the 90s was the make-or-break decade in terms of negotiating a peaceful settlement between the sexes and that the number of kids from broken homes will assure that the white middle-class family will follow the same path as the black family.
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"If I was to believe you that means everything i have been taught has been a lie."
The emperor has no clothes.
The emperor has no clothes.
The emperor has no clothes.
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I think that, in our feminized society, it's the empress, who has no clothes.
That could be, Thomas. But, don't look at her or they'll put your eyes out.
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That could be, Thomas. But, don't look at her or they'll put your eyes out.
Zen, if it's Empress Dworkin, I'll be putting my own eyes out, thank ya verra much...
* Putting the SMACKDOWN on Feminazis since 1989! *
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My friend the feminist wrote this to Claires. I told her to look at the shirts herself and she was outraged. See what happens when you approach people with decency and respect. When I suggest people moderate their tempers, here is someone who we drove away.
The Biscuit Queen
Dear ....
I am a longtime Claire's customer (my second earring holes were done at
the
Pyramid Mall Ithaca store years ago!), so you will understand that I am
shocked and appalled to find out that your store is selling products
that
encourage stonings, violence and promote the hate of boys by selling
the
"Boys are Stupid - Throw Rocks at Them" items. Imagine my, and all my
friends', disgust when we found out that your stores are encouraging
young
girls and other people that frequent your stores to ATTACK boys. I
have
two boys, but I still shop at Claire's for hair do-hickeys,
rhinestones,
earrings and braclets, not only for myself, but as gifts for my neice
and
my friends girls.
Didn't you stop to think that quite possibly some child would read or
purchase this product and since they don't have the reasoning of an
adult-would actually DO what the shirt suggests by throwing rocks at a
boy? I really don't like all the stupid litigation that occurs in this
world we live in, but it does happen. I can't be the only parent
thinking
that if my boy was the victim of a stoning as a result of one of these
products that there should be a suit filed against the accuser and the
store that made it all possible. Basically, I do NOT think that it is
the
responsibility of Claire's to encourage violence against boys.
As an aside...if the products had said Girls Are Stupid - Throw
Rocks...would you have hesitated to purchase these items for display in
your stores? NOW (National Organization of Women) would have strung
you up
by your earlobes. Why...I ask you...should it be any different for
boys? Are they not just as important as girls? Do you realize that
this
world survives only because there are boys AND girls that eventually
will
grow into men and women?
I try hard every day to make sure that my precious children have the
things
they need and along with the usual (love, food, clothing, shelter,
education, etc...) I think that self-esteem is essential. These
products
encourage bullying and violence against all boys. I think there's
enough
of that in the world without encouragement from Claire's. Please pull
these products so I and my friends and their children can shop in your
stores again.
Sincerely, R
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here is someone who we drove away.
When was she driven away, and over what?
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by Anonymous User on Tuesday January 20, @07:27PM EST (#49)
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"here is someone who we drove away."
Sorry to hear she was driven away. The people on this site have strong opinions for many good reasons, and all of us have varying degrees of tact.
There are certainly men who flame out on this site as well as trolls. I just keep talking to them, however. Not one of them has punched me in the nose through my monitor yet. Hang in there (and your friend too). She wrote a good letter.
Oh yea, thank goodness I've been able to keep myself a degree or two below spontaneous combustion all these many months.
Ray (Farenheit 452 1/2)
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Gonz, I'm sure you are literate enough to have caught my reference to "Peeping Thomas"
and, still on the literary note - before we let you gouge out your own eyes, you have to sleep with your mother.
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Jen,
Thank you for posting this letter, and please thank your friend for sending it. The men's movement has and will continue to have all sorts of people in it. Some of them are, in my opinion, pretty nuts (a feeling that's probably reciprocated, if they bother to pay any attention to me.) Some strike me as pompous, pseudo-intellectual, irrational bags of wind. Many make valid points, sometimes with great eloquence.
The most important thing is that we have genuine concerns that must and will be addressed. I hope that your friend can get past the style and even message of many, who might turn her off, to see the injustices faced by men and boys to such a great extent today.
I've been in a situations, where a few men are complaining about the treatment of men in this society and they are being dismissed by almost everyone else, male and female, when a woman spoke up and agreed with the men's points. It's been like a door has opened in the minds of many of the other men and women. It shouldn't be that way, but it is. The truth and justice movement can use the assistance of every fair-minded woman.
Again, please thank your friend for sending the note.
-- Creating hostile environments for feminazis since the 1970s.
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Thomas wrote ---
"Some strike me as pompous, pseudo-intellectual, irrational bags of wind. Many make valid points, sometimes with great eloquence."
Democracy is such a swamp, yes? All the rabble assemble and make their voices heard... so impolite and unseemly?
Here's one from the cheap seats ---
"My father compounded with my mother under
the dragon's tail, and my nativity was
under Ursa Major, so that it follows
I am rough and lecherous.
'Sfoot! I should have been that I am had the
maidenliest star in the firmament twinkled
on my bastardizing."
(The Bard -- King Lear)
That fellow really understood women!
"It's a terrible thing ... living in fear."
- Roy: hunted replicant, Blade Runner
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There are just a few individuals, who, I think, squelch honest discussion through pompous self-superiority. I don't think that helps things.
Butt, whadder eye no?
y'know, Thomas, believe it or not, that very thing could be said of you from time to time.
but, hey, we can all overlook a bit of tactlessness at times, we are all on same side, fighting for the same cause. Right?
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we are all on the same side.
and, that is all that matters.
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BTW, when I made my first comment along these lines, I wasn't referring to you, in case that matters at all.
Actually, I didn't think it did. I have a guess about one or two people you might mean.
But, I know I am abrasive. About half of it is intentional, because I have watched men do the same old shit for a long long time not getting anywhere and I tend to rattle a few cages now and then. Just a few days ago a guy asked me to be his backup moderator because when he showed up on another board I "bitch slapped" him (his words) and got him to take a bit more realistic look at the issues.
The other half is simply because I'm so battle weary, a lot of the time I really don't care who I offend. Sometimes I just don't have either the energy or patience for tact.
We are all passionate about this cause, and that means from time to time we are going to get on each others nerves. I watched that very phenomenon take down the MND forums.
I just think it serves us all to bring up the fact once in a while that our own good intentions may not always be immediately obvious to everyone, and that sometimes when someone gets on our own nerves, that they also have good intentions.
It is going to be a long war. We are gonna be in the trenches together a long time. Might as well get used to each other's BO and not let it bother us.
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I had been talking to my friend abut the men's issues, and actually had her open to looking at material. I sent her the link to a flyer posted in one of the threads outlining the issues of mens activism. Stupid me. I should have cut & pasted, then e-mailed it. She started looking around and read Gonzo, Ray, and some others who were venting, and was completely convinced we are all a bunch of woman hating jerks.
Luckily I was able to do some damage control, and have been slowely introducing her to one thing at a time. But the damage was done.
I feel like there is a big difference between getting angry and going off. There is a lot of going off here, which is why I have stopped sending new people here. I mail them specific info. When they start getting it more, I can send them here, but until then it will only push them away.
Just a thought, The Biscuit Queen
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... at least until the boss asks me what I'm working on.
I don't fault her for it,completely, as she said, "If I was to believe you that means everything i have been taught has been a lie."
It might be better to think of it not so much as a lie as a bunch of really bad, ill-thought-out ideas.
I've tried to come up with a definition of feminism that all feminists can agree on. The best so far: Feminism is the belief that society gives women the shitty end of the stick. (The various flavors of feminists take that and run with it to suit their own agendas.)
Which is true enough, but it's a partial truth. It's just as true that society gives men the shitty end of the stick. Society also gives men unique privileges and women unique privileges.
Just about about every brand of feminism denies those other truths (as Warren Farrell learned quite quickly and rudely.) Why? Because it's a powerful negotiating position. If you can go into any situation with the a priori agreement of all involved that you're the one who has been wronged, well, the outcome isn't too hard to predict.
Women are people. They got handed a righteous big stick and naively proceeded to use it, as anyone would. It takes experience to know how to use such things wisely.
Anyway, you might suggest to your friend not to worry so much about lies in the past, but to be open to new truths in the present. Though it might not seem that way, most of us men don't expect and aren't that interested in mea culpas from women for the acts of their sex as a whole. That's part of what got us into this mess.
Larry
The source of all power is the ability to say "No."
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was completely convinced we are all a bunch of woman hating jerks
Pretty much the converse of the message that feminism has given men about women.
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Yes, but feminism deserved it;-)
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Deserved what? to be believed?
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"Deserved what? to be believed?"
No, to be labeled a bunch of man-hating jerks (emphasis on JERKS).
Give us some time, they have had 40 years on us. We will get there. The Biscuit Queen
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Give us some time, they have had 40 years on us. We will get there.
More power to ya, Jen. In the meantime, my goal will be to keep as many of the next 2 generations of men out of their evil clutches as I can.
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Well then, between the two of us, we have things covered ;-)
TBQ
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by Anonymous User on Monday January 19, @11:28PM EST (#29)
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Here's their company photo.
http://www.davidandgoliathtees.com/new/home.asp?mo de=a
p. george
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d & g even have a page where one can send e-cards - the "throw rocks" e-card is at:
http://www.davidandgoliathtees.com/new/ecards/defa ult.asp?card_id=2
Why not send each of the Claire's management a nice card?
marla.schaefer@claires.com
bonnie.schaefer@claires.com
phyllis.korman@claires.com
ira.kaplan@claires.com
michael.rabinovitch@claires.com
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To whom it may concern,
I'm written to you about the extremely offensive and degrading merchandise that is sold at your chain of stores. In particular I am referring to the line of clothing and other items produced by the company David and Goliath. This line of products is labeled with such misandric language as "boys are stupid throw rocks at them" and "stupid factory, where boys are made" among many other equally hateful slogans. These items promote violence and sexist attitudes towards young men. By selling these products your stores promote those vary attitudes. It is not in my knowledge as to whether any members of the management of the Claire's chain of stores took ethic courses while in college, however it is obvious to me that any one with even a semblance of a knowledge of ethics would realize that hate mongering is wrong.. That is exactly what those products do. And by selling those items and making a profit off of them that is what the Claire's chain is doing. This hate mongering does and will cause an unpleasant environment in schools for this nation's young men and boys. This may play some part in the declining grades of young men in our nation's schools, which is leading to an increasing social problem. Their for by promoting this attitude, by hatemongering, Claire's is creating a social problem. As a concerned citizen I urge your corporation to do the right thing and pull these items and any like them form the selves of your stores nationwide.
Sincerely,
James M. Denning
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by Anonymous User on Monday January 19, @11:40PM EST (#31)
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Here's another voodoo doll being used to control men using domestic violence if they so much as cheat on them.
http://www.davidandgoliathtees.com/new/lines/defau lt.asp?mode=S&product_id=2167&page=9&category_id=7
p. george
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While women may chuckle at the image of a small scared boy running away from being attacked, I wonder how many of them ever stop to think what the future of that little boy will turn out to be. Life is more than an eternal "now", and gradually fear will turn to loathing and hatred toward the creatures who terrorized him when he was small and vulnerable.
The women of today are seeding a terrible future for their daughters. Boys grown to men will have no memories of childhood kindness from women to look back fondly upon. Instead they will have memories of endless ridicule and cruelty from creatures who may at some time come to depend on those boys for a kindness. How tragic will be the day for those girls when they find that those former boys that they threw rocks at, have no kindness for females, because none was given to them.
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by Anonymous User on Tuesday January 20, @01:52AM EST (#37)
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"The women of today are seeding a terrible future for their daughters. Boys grown to men will have no memories of childhood kindness from women to look back fondly upon. Instead they will have memories of endless ridicule and cruelty from creatures who may at some time come to depend on those boys for a kindness. How tragic will be the day for those girls when they find that those former boys that they threw rocks at, have no kindness for females, because none was given to them."
Where already there. The scam of domestic violence law, and other scams of our courts have already made it way too dangerous for men to involve themselves in rescuing women (not knowing what wiley misandrist deviltry they may be up to). If I ever saw a female in trouble alone, car broken down, bad neighborhood, etc. I'd keep right on driving, and not give it a second thought.
You've come a long way baby. Don't expect a free ride anymore.
Sincerely, Ray
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Where already there. The scam of domestic violence law, and other scams of our courts have already made it way too dangerous for men to involve themselves in rescuing women (not knowing what wiley misandrist deviltry they may be up to).
We are, indeed, already there.
I just saw the movie, "Cold Mountain." (There's a little bit of anti-male sexism in that they show the women being more, though not in every case, opposed to war than they in fact were and fail to show the women shaming men into fighting. Nevertheless, it's a powerful film. I'm glad I saw it.) Anyway, there's a scene where the hero stays a night with a young women in her cabin, while he's heading home after deserting. Her husband just died in the war, and she asks the hero if he'd sleep beside her and not go farther. She wants to be beside and to hold and to be held by a man.
There was once a time, when I would have said "yes" to such a request without a moment's hesitation. Though it would have been sexually frustrating (she's lovely), I would have been happy to comfort her. Now... I'd think long and hard and possibly just leave.
-- Creating hostile environments for feminazis since the 1970s.
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by Anonymous User on Wednesday January 21, @07:10PM EST (#80)
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that soon followed. Think back on it (what that woman, who so needed a man in her bed, did the very next day). Once you remember it, I'll leave it to you to post it.
Most of the audience laughed or clapped at the part I'm referencing, and I was so damn mad I said VERY aloud "Why was that funny?"
Oh, the precious looks I received after that. And the sour taste I hope it left in some of them.
The Shark
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OOh, what was it-I haven't seen the movie yet...
That wasn't very nice to leave us hanging like that.
TBQ
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by Anonymous User on Wednesday January 21, @10:52PM EST (#85)
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Just wanted to give the original poster a chance to show that he can indeed spot misandry when he sees it.
If nothing by tomorrow afternoon, I shall provide the answer :)
The Shark
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That wasn't very nice to leave us hanging like that.
WARNING! I'm about to write about what happens in "Cold Mountain." If you don't want to learn about the plot any more, don't read this.
I didn't want to refer to the part that the Shark refers to because I didn't want to reveal any more of the movie. I have a problem with this scene, because it's not clear to me exactly what happens.
Three marauding northern soldiers come to the young woman's cabin and find her but not the hero. These soldiers are hungry (both sides of the war suffered from severe shortages, which included food, and invading armies learned to live off the land -- read "the conquered.") They put her baby out in the cold to force her to tell them where she has food or livestock. Then one of them forces her into her cabin and attempts to rape her.
Unfortunately, things become unclear here. It seems to me, because of what the hero does, that this northern soldier doesn't get very far in his attempt, but it also seems soon after, from her condition, that the northern soldier does rape her. Another of the northern soldiers then enters the cabin and tries to rape her. At that point we see that the first one is dead, killed by the hero, who then kills the second. The hero then goes out with a gun.
The third northern soldier isn't a bad guy. He's young and caught up in the madness of the war. While the other two are trying to rape the woman, he's covering the baby, who is cold, to protect it. The hero comes out with the gun, forces this third northern soldier to strip to his underwear, and tells him to leave. (In the southern mountains, with a northern accent, in winter dressed only in his underwear, the guy's chances of survival for as much as a day are pretty slim.)
The woman comes out. (Has she been raped? I don't know. It seems unlikely because of the details of the hero's presence through this, but the movie seems to play it as though she has been. I suspect there was a bit of sloppy editing when the final version was put together. Though it's powerful, this is one of the weakest scenes in the movie, because of this lack of clarity.) As the northern soldier is running away, she kills him with a rifle (shotgun?).
Unfortunately, this whole scene isn't clear to me. Was she raped? Is this another case of Hollywood glorifying the notion that if a woman is raped, then she has the right to kill any men that she chooses to kill? Perhaps. (By that line of thought, I have the right to kill any women that I choose to kill because women brutalized me when I was a child. I certainly don't buy it, but Hollywood seems to. Or at least they seem to buy the part about women killing men.) Or was this a case of the woman, whose husband was killed by northerners -- northerners who are now plundering the south and threatening her and her child -- finally taking up the sword. Frankly, it struck me as the latter because the rape attempt didn't seem to get farther than shoving her over a table, but I realize I may be wrong here.
Because that's the way I interpreted it, the scene didn't strike me as terribly misandrist. However, the two women sitting beside me in the theater let out a little cheer, when the female character shot this fundamentally decent, though in horrid circumstances, young man.
So, the reaction of these two women in the audience did strike me as sexist, unless they were Aryan supremacists (they were white women), who felt the south should have won the war (Yes, yes, I know. The Civil War was about more than slavery. But slavery was the dominant issue.) In that case, they may have been racist.
To sum: The scene struck me more as a case of a southern woman, who had spoken against war, grabbing a gun and killing a Yankee, rather than a justification of killing one man for the crime of another. Audience cheers would have struck me as inappropriate and probably misandrist.
Like I say, though, I may be wrong. Then again, maybe this scene was meant to be open to interpretation.
-- Creating hostile environments for feminazis since the 1970s.
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by Anonymous User on Thursday January 22, @02:57AM EST (#88)
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I applaud your take on the scene. As for me, I read it only one way: the young woman killed a man by shooting him in the back even though he had personally done nothing to her. She killed him because of his cohorts. She killed him because he was a man. Regardless of her perspective and emotions at the time, she is a murderess.
If it had been a woman traveling with them, would she have been shot? (Blank stare….don’t even think about it)
In addition, this scene felt 'pushed' to me. I can only assume that it was created to bring a mood of triumph for the woman, to show her as strong. Heaven forbid that she's a no good, dislikable psycho on the verge of a meltdown (which, obviously, she was).
One last note on the movie (which I disliked immensely): why is it that they show each woman as likable, against the war, and only holding good morals?
Oh, yeah. Woman good, man bad. Gawd, this is an old, disagreeable song.
As for the women in the audience who clapped, what a disgusting display of ignorance and spite. Pigs, the lot of ‘em.
The Shark
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Hello Shark,
I don't say the following to make an argument about this, but to clarify my take on the movie.
Shark: "why is it that they show each woman as likable, against the war
This aspect did bother me, as I pointed out in my opening post on "Cold Mountain."
Me: There's a little bit of anti-male sexism in that they show the women being more, though not in every case, opposed to war than they in fact were and fail to show the women shaming men into fighting.
While watching the movie, I did note, though, that when the arrival of war is announced, the hero is clearly far from happy about it. He later states to the preacher, also a man, that God is probably tired of being called down on both sides of arguments, and the preacher agrees and seems to gain a great deal of respect for the hero for saying this. So these are two men who are not happy about the war.
Also, when the war is announced, a number of women are shown smiling and celebrating with the men. They seem as happy as the men that they've got their war. (In real life, there were celebrations at the start, before the horrid realities of the war began to sink in.)
So it did strike me as a bit of female good, male bad, but not nearly as universally as it struck you.
-- Creating hostile environments for feminazis since the 1970s.
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by Anonymous User on Thursday January 22, @11:58AM EST (#93)
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yes, I am a bit strident in thought with this type of thing. Some of my problem is that I found the movie an awful mess, and not the least bit emotionally tethered in any cohesive manner. And those accents! ARGH!
For me, showing the women in celebration with their men, smiling and happy about the war, doesn't equate to painting them as morally reprehensible. It's a flash in the pan that made the initial jubilation more palpable, without laying any blame upon them. By this, the film strips them of culpability, as though they were just children watching a game.
The truth is they participated in many of the horrors and evils freely and willingly. But none of this is shown.
As for the men, I never said the movie didn't show men in a good light at times, but once it was over all I could remember is: Woman good, man bad.
And don't forget the end, where Zellweger is telling her man to go get something, and he does so as the limp pup all men must be in the presents of a strong woman.
Gag.
The Shark.
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How tragic will be the day for those girls when they find that those former boys that they threw rocks at, have no kindness for females, because none was given to them.
I think this day has definitely arrived in substantial parts of our culture. Didn't the article posted by SkipKent on the earlier T-Shirt thread begin by relating young women's complaints that young men were either "wimps" (wouldn't stand up for women or take the risk of showing initiative with them) or "barbarians" (used them for sex and nothing else)?
So men are either avoiding women or treating them badly? Gee, I wonder why?
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I stumbled across this article while actually searching for some of the David and Goliath products, and I honestly cannot believe this little campaign of Glenn Sacks has gone this far. The slogans used in the David and Goliath line are JOKES. The creators are not actually suggesting that people literally throw rocks at anyone. I am a firm believer in equal rights and am strongly against perpetuating stereotypes, but I also believe strongly in the First Amendment. If you do not find the slogans amusing, don't buy the product. There have been MILLIONS upon millions of t-shirts and other merchandise depicting derogatory images and slogans against and/or degrading women, and there will continue to be probably until the end of time. There are several websites and shops across the country like that of T-Shirt Hell that contain t-shirts and bumper stickers with smilar slogans against women, such as "YOUR LITTLE PRINCESS IS MY LITTLE WH**E!" and "VAGINAS ARE WEIRD!" I do not agree with these products and I find almost every one of them offensive, but I would never boycott, obsess, or demand them to be obliterated from the planet just because I do not like them. The day we allow others to decide what we can or cannot buy is the day we lose the very freedom on which this country was founded. I will continue to buy David and Goliath products (most of which say nothing about boys at all) because I find them amusing, and because that is my right as an American citizen. As for this website overall, I think it is an abomination and an affront to all women and men alike. The ridiculous accusations and the subjects you discuss amazes me. Women have been fighting for equality for centuries and are still seen by most of the world as second class citizens. It is beyond me how you can believe otherwise. I don't know what kind of twisted fantasy world you all live in where women, or anything but old upper class white men, are controlling this country. Your constant comments about how women are consumers and therefore rule the world is almost as ludicrous as your beliefs that these little t-shirts are going to somehow scar little boys for life. Why don't you try using all this negative energy on something more productive and worth fighting against. There are worse things in the world than sick humor. Go outside and live life instead of sitting at your computers stewing and obsessing over trivial matters.
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Five more emails to Claire's sent.
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by Anonymous User on Tuesday January 20, @08:52PM EST (#52)
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I just sent a few e-mails to some financial analysts and investors regarding promoting violence against boys, and I copied Claire's management.
Send an email to your favorite investment columnist and let him or her know about his issue! They are the persons best able to get Claire's management's attention.
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I hope you made reference to Gadzook's meltdown both in sales and in the market. hmmm, maybe misandry doesn't sell as well as it used to.
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This afternoon I recieved an email from a Katie Michaels, Director of Consumer Affairs, Claire's Stores, Inc. requesting my full name and address so that "we can appropriately respond to you."
Anybody else, or am I special?
Larry
The source of all power is the ability to say "No."
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"Hello!
Thank-you for your e-mail inquiry. Please forward your mailing address (and full name) so that we can appropriately respond to you.
Thank-you,
Katie Michaels
Director of Consumer Affairs
Claire's Stores, Inc.
1) there was no "inquiry"
2) they responded to something via email, why do they need a physical address to send something more "appropriate".
Here is my reply:
"It wasn't an "inquiry", it was a complaint. The most "appropriate response" will be to remove the offensive product from your stores."
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I'm not special. *sigh*
Larry
The source of all power is the ability to say "No."
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sure you are, Larry, to ALL of us here. Chin up, old chap. ;-)
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(looking up slowly, eyes red, chin quivering, voice cracking)
Group hug?
Larry
The source of all power is the ability to say "No."
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ROFLMAO
No, how about a cold brew, tho?
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BE AWARE!!!
From things that I've seen on this board and elsewhere, it seems to me that feminists are now trying to get the personal addresses of members of the Truth and Justice Movement. They may next try to find out where you work. If you reveal personal information, don't be surprised to find yourselves the targets of false accusations of creating hostile environments and of sexual harassment.
NO JOKE!!!!!
First warning sign "respond appropriately" - now just what the hell does that mean? A knock on the door by the jackboots?
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I've already responded by pointing out that my first email was a "complaint" not an "inquiry", and that the most appropriate response would be to remove the offending merchandise. I think I will let the rest of game play out a bit more before making my next move. After the meltdown at MND due to the sabotage of some trolls, and some other things which have happened since, I'm playing my hand pretty close to my chest these days.
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To the customer service personnel at Claire's:
Today I visited your store at the Flatirons Crossing mall in Broomfield, CO. While I was there I noticed that there was some very inappropriate merchandise by David & Goliath. This included a cap with "Boys are stupid - throw rocks at them" on the side and a writing board with "Boys are smelly" written on it.
I find these "boy bashing" accessories to be highly offensive and inappropriate in that they encourage a casual attitude towards hatred and violence against boys. Boys and girls are fairly evenly matched (in terms of size and strength) before puberty, and some little boys may be at risk of physical and psychological harm if some little girls take these messages seriously. These messages are reminiscent of attitudes towards blacks during the Jim Crow era.
I look forward to the day when boy (and man) bashing is a thing of the past. In the meantime, please remove this offensive merchandise from your stores.
Sincerely,
Steven G. Van Valkenburg
Founder of Men's Issues Online - A voice for men's advocacy
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MensIssuesOnline
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by Anonymous User on Thursday January 22, @04:51AM EST (#89)
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We may want to talk about coordinating our efforts. NCFM-LA members have discussed some protest activity as well. We'll give it a little time.
Marc
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