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by Anonymous User on Monday January 05, @02:49PM EST (#1)
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I just rang the Tillys customer service department
and was told the items in question had been removed from sale.
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I just rang the Tillys customer service department
and was told the items in question had been removed from sale.
I called Tilly's to try to confirm this and to register my objection to the selling of this T-shirt. I spoke with an operator, who knew nothing about it, but I couldn't get through to an officer, so I left a lengthy message.
My message stated in part that I hope they've stopped carrying the merchandise and I emphasized that it never should have been carried by them in the first place. I also pointed out that suicide is one of the major causes of death in the US, that the great majority of victims are men and boys, that the rate amoung boys has jumped in the last couple of decades and that the rate among boys is now about five times that of girls. I also told them that, though I don't have kids in school, I have friends who do, and they've told me about the anti-boy attitudes of the teachers and administrators. I pointed out that the general degradation of boys probably contributes to their not wanting to be part of the nation's educational system. I also stated that men have been putting up with the general degradation of males in this society for decades, but they are adults, so it's their right to submit to it if they choose, though I consider them fools for doing so. However, when this hatred is directed against children, it is an outrage that must be stopped. I finished by again saying that I hope they've stopped carrying the merchandise and by emphasizing that the product should never have been sold by Tilly's.
-- Creating a hostile environment for Nazis since the 1970s.
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by Anonymous User on Monday January 05, @06:51PM EST (#3)
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After people starting calling last night and early this morning, by about 10:00 a.m. Tilly's announced that they would pull the shirts and stop selling them! Thank you whoever began calling them. There is more to come. Below is Glenn Sacks' news release. We will stay on top of Tilly's to make sure they make good. Stay tuned for more!
Marc
____________
LA Chain Agrees to Pull 'Boys are Stupid' T-Shirts
After Storm of Protest from His Side Listeners
The campaign began Sunday evening at 9 PM, and by 9 AM the next morning, it was all over.
Men's and fathers' issues radio talk show host Glenn Sacks declared a campaign against Tilly's clothing store, which sells T-shirts which say "Boys Are Stupid, Throw Rocks at Them" , during the Sunday, January 4 broadcast of His Side with Glenn Sacks in Los Angeles and Seattle. The shirts depict a little boy running away as several rocks come flying at his head.
The next morning Tilly's , which has 32 locations in Southern California, was deluged with angry e-mails and phone calls. Sam Mendelsohn, Tilly's Senior Vice President, issued a statement Monday morning saying he had "immediately instructed the removal of merchandise in question [throw rocks] from all locations." Mendelsohn expressed his "sincere apologies regarding the merchandise."
Several other men's and fathers' groups, including the Seattle-based Separated Parenting Access &Resource Center (SPARC) and the National Coalition of Free Men Los Angeles joined the campaign against the T-shirts. The victory comes on the heels of a similar victory for the men's and fathers' movement in Seattle, when Bon Macy's, a major department store, agreed to remove the offensive T-Shirts from its stores in December. Bon Macy's was deluged with letters and phone calls after Sacks had issued a similar call for action during the December 14 broadcast of His Side
The shirts are distributed by David &Goliath, which says the shirts are among their best-sellers. As FOX news columnist Wendy McElroy noted in her column Christmas in a War Zone , the company also sells products which say "Boys Lie -- Make Them Cry" and "Boys are Smelly -- Throw Garbage Cans at Them." She wrote that animation on the David &Goliath website depicts a "'Stupid Factory'...where boys are produced...a little girl pelts [the boy] on the skull with a large rock and he tumbles, landing with his head planted fully in the earth."
During his January 4 broadcast Sacks gave out Tilly’s contact information and urged his listeners to "write them and call them and light them up. Be polite, but let them know exactly how you feel....degrading boys, insulting them, making our schools a hostile environment for them--we’re not taking it any more."
After Tilly's decision to remove the shirts was announced, Sacks said that he "applauds the store for its wise and humane decision." He says that he has already chosen the next target for what he called "round 3" of the battle, which will begin with his next broadcast on Sunday January 11.
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by Anonymous User on Tuesday January 06, @01:09PM EST (#5)
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"She wrote that animation on the David &Goliath website depicts a "'Stupid Factory'...where boys are produced..."
It's even worse than that now. After the animation there is a link that comes up that says, "Proof that not all boys are stupid"
http://www.davidandgoliathtees.com/new/comics/comi c1.html
It shows a boy examining feces as if he is too dumb or uncaring to know what he is really handling.
Considering that the Family Violence Prevention Fund is big on "mentoring boys" so they don't grow up to be violent against women I think it would be highly appropriate if someone wrote to them, and asked them to include this boy bashing site in their Hall of Shame.
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by Anonymous User on Monday January 05, @08:53PM EST (#4)
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I've seen posters with exactly the same drawings,
for sale at Tower Records. This artwork
must be on a lot of different merchandise.
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I wrote to Todd Goldman of David & Goliath Tees, asking him how I could purchase some "Girls Are Stupid - Throw Rocks At Them" shirts. His response?
"We dont have these hot shot."
So I wrote to him again, and said "There must be some mistake. I mean, you have 'Throw Rocks At Boys' and 'Boys Are Stupid' shirts, so surely you must have some which say 'Throw Rocks At Girls' or 'Girls Are Stupid'. Surely you wouldn't single out only boys for derogatory remarks, would you? Incidentally, what's with the "hot shot" comment? Aren't you interested in
making a sale?"
To which he responded:
"SURELY WE DONT. ALSO, WHAT DOES HOT SHOT HAVE TO DO WITH MAKING A SALE?" (All-caps were his.)
To which I responded:
"Well, it seems to me that if you're in the business of selling items to the public, you might want to reconsider your calling someone a "hot shot". It might be misconstrued as an insult. (That's not what you intended, is it?)
And as far as the shirts go, does that mean you feel it's OK to sell shirts with derogatory remarks towards males, but it's not OK to sell them with derogatory remarks towards females? (Considering your name is "Todd", I assume you are a male. Are you telling the world that you're stupid when you sell shirts that say "Boys Are Stupid"? Is it OK if I throw a rock at you?)
(Incidentally, you might want to turn your "caps lock" key off. It might be
interpreted as you shouting.)"
To which he responded:
"VINCE. YOU SEEM REAL NICE. BUT PLEASE STOP WRITING ME. I NEED TO RUN MY MULTI MILLION DOLLAR COMPANY. UNLESS YOU WANT A JOB...STOP WRITING."
There you have it.
So, I would urge all of you to write to Mr. Todd Goldman and voice your concerns. His addy is:
dgoliath@tampabay.rr.com
"Existence exists. A is A." -Ayn Rand
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by Anonymous User on Tuesday January 06, @04:09PM EST (#8)
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I am outraged that this is going on in America. Clearly the people manufacturing these shirts do not care about the damage they are doing to males in the name of making a dollar.
On the other hand I am honored that Glenn Sacks is so courageously calling attention to this despicably hate-monering in our midst.
This kind of entrenched bigotry and prejudice is like a weed that has been allowed to take root until it chokes the good plants around it. Often, as now, it is not even noted until it has become very difficult to "root out."
It is my fervent wish that the effort will continue to eradicate such deplorable hatred targeting males, lest the seeds of such hatred are allowed to spread and create a weed patch where no male will be allowed any space to live.
Sincerely, Ray
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by Anonymous User on Tuesday January 06, @04:42PM EST (#9)
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What I hope happens is that some male employee of David and Goliath - perhaps one made to ring up a sale of a 'Boys are Stupid' T-shirt - sues for sexual harassment and wins big. After all, if this isn't a "hostile environment" interfering with one's ability to do his job, then what is? Hitting these bastards in the pocketbook is the only thing they will understand.
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It is one thing to make post after post about how awful something is, it is entirely another to try to do something about it.
I am trying to get started a national boycott of the d&g BRAND, not just one shirt, and drive this jerk's "muli-million dollar" company into bankruptcy.
Somewhere, some time, we have to take a stand, people. This is the best place I have seen to do it in a long time.
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Nah, we don't have to do anything illegal. Hell, all we have to do is refuse to buy their shit, and urge everyone we know not to. Additionally, we can urge stores that carry their hateful garbage to stop selling it.
If we REALLY wanted to be vengeful, we could make some shirts that read "Todd Goldman is stupid - throw rocks at him"
But I would NEVER do anything like that! ;-)
"Existence exists. A is A." -Ayn Rand
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by Anonymous User on Saturday January 31, @12:24AM EST (#35)
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Nothing illegal - boycotts are a time-honored way of applying economic pressure. About 30 years ago, Caesar Chavez urged a boycott of grapes and lettuce to get rights for migrant workers.
I'm working on developing the materials, but it would simply involve telling any retailer that carries their line at all, that you no longer intend to shop there. Look how quickly Tilly's caved in. Just extend that to the entire brand, and tell any store that carries it that from now on you intend to shop at one of their competitors who doesn't.
Ask everyone you know to do the same. Post to every list and every forum you can, asking them to do the same. Nothing at all illegal in that - some of the little freedom of speech we have left.
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by Anonymous User on Wednesday January 07, @01:51AM EST (#14)
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"Look how quickly Tilly's caved in."
I was talking this over with myself the morning they folded, telling myself, "O.K. come up with a good picket sign, and walk a picket line in front of one of their stores." Wow, I never even got to 1st base on that one.
Ray
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"Look how quickly Tilly's caved in."
"I was talking this over with myself the morning they folded, telling myself, "O.K. come up with a good picket sign...."
I think we'd be wise to avoid saying Tilly's "caved in" or "folded", like we tricked them or something. They saw the light, as far as I'm concerned (even if that light was a financial one); let's just hope other outlets and individuals begin to see the light, too.
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I think Glenn is doing exactly what needs to be done... take out his retail channel and see how long he can afford to print this crap.
Other sellers of D&G goods:
http://www.agirlsworld.co.uk/
http://www.kays.com
http://search.store.yahoo.com (sells d&g although they don't list any of their racist or sexist stuff)
http://www.asos.com
I think the key would be to locate their top retailers and hit them one at a time.
Dave K - A Radical Moderate
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by Anonymous User on Wednesday January 07, @12:38PM EST (#19)
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What racist stuff do they carry?
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Only against asians
"U fuk me nao" that kind of stuff
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As a wall poster, for 4 pounds, in the UK:
http://www.popartuk.com/humour/boys-are-stupid-st3 241-poster.asp
As a refrigerator magnet from "Wicked Cool Stuff":
http://www.wickedcoolstuff.com/boarestthroa.html
As a night light on Yahoo:
http://shop.store.yahoo.com/cupidshut/boarestthroa 2.html
As a wall clock...
http://www.giftapolis.com/boarestwaclt.html
As a hand-crafted handbag at a college-sponsored crafts fair:
http://www.dailyaztec.com/Archive/Current/opinion/ opinion05.html
As a keychain:
http://www.stickergiant.com/page/sg/PROD/sk610
As a lapel button:
http://www.stickergiant.com/page/sg/PROD/sb855
As ankle socks (but that page seems to be down)...
_________________
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Yesterday evening, I received a call from an officer at Tilly's in response to the message that I left, when I called them. He stated that they've removed all the offending merchandise and cancelled all future orders with D&G. I thanked him and pointed out that such products should never have been sold at Tilly's. He agreed with this and said that he took full responsibility. (I was inclined to say, "Oh, then, your're resigning your position. That's good. It was a terrible, heinous act that you committed," but I refrained.)
I then said that companies such as D&G are part of a deep and pervasive problem in this society. He sounded sincere when he said he was aware of that and that they are going to be far more careful in the future. I started telling him about boys' suicide rates, but he interjected that he'd carefully listened to my message, in which I'd made the same point, so I dropped it.
On the whole, it was a decent discussion and some people may have been made aware of the fact that the problem goes beyond just D&G's hatefulness.
-- Creating a hostile environment for Nazis since the 1970s.
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by Anonymous User on Wednesday January 07, @01:04PM EST (#20)
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RE: but he interjected that he'd carefully listened to my message, in which I'd made the same point, so I dropped it.
It's called, "quit while you're ahead".
Move onto the next person. Don't pin the guy who just agreed with you to the wall and rant at him for half and hour.
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"RE: but he interjected that he'd carefully listened to my message, in which I'd made the same point, so I dropped it.
It's called, "quit while you're ahead".
Move onto the next person. Don't pin the guy who just agreed with you to the wall and rant at him for half and hour.""
Agreed. Let's not chew out people who are doing the right thing, even if it's just cancelling out a wrong that they did. Having that crap in their store was a mistake; they've rectified it, apologized for it, and sent a "message" to D&G by dropping their products. If we keep scolding people who join our "side", they're going to wonder why they bothered. As will other companies who are still mulling over dropping D&G.
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by Anonymous User on Wednesday January 07, @08:12PM EST (#24)
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I see your point, but I disagree that we should fight fire with fire. I think it would be better if people just filed lawsuits against company's that manufacture or sell T-shirts that create sexist hostile environments against males, anywhere those T-shirts are worn.
This could be the reason so many who carry these shirts are folding so quickly and completely. There is a huge liability issue here in this politically correct, zero tolerance society.
If just one boy is hit by a rock, anywhere, then anyone who manufactured or sold that trash clothing advocating such injury, deserves to be sued to the full extent of the law in my lay opinion.
Sincerely, Ray
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Because killing their market is the best way to kill them, and drive them into bankruptcy because they will have all this inventory they have paid for but can't sell.
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"If we keep scolding people who join our "side", they're going to wonder why they bothered."
"I trust you're not referring to me, because, as I said, I let it go when he said he'd listened to my message."
It's just overall advice for the group, not an admonition of anyone here. It's all good.
bg
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OUTSTANDING!!!!!!!!
Let's keep the pedal to the metal and see if maybe we can get LOTS of retailers to cancel all future orders!!!
Do you have a name to send thank you emails to?
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BY ALL MEANS validate them for their decision. As someone earlier in the thread pointed out, it may be tempting to give them a hard time for selling the shirts in the first place, but it will be far better for men to just be very gracious in our thanks for the decision they have made.
NOW, the next step is to find the ones still selling them, and suggest to all their customers that they shop at Tilly's instead.
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by Anonymous User on Wednesday January 14, @02:33AM EST (#34)
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I stumbled across this article while actually searching for some of the David and Goliath products, and I honestly cannot believe this little campaign of Glenn Sacks has gone this far. The slogans used in the David and Goliath line are JOKES. The creators are not actually suggesting that people literally throw rocks at anyone. I am a firm believer in equal rights and am strongly against perpetuating stereotypes, but I also believe strongly in the First Amendment. If you do not find the slogans amusing, don't buy the product. There have been MILLIONS upon millions of t-shirts and other merchandise depicting derogatory images and slogans against or degrading women, and there will continue to be probably until the end of time. I do not agree with these products and I find almost every one of them offensive, but I would never boycott, obsess, or demand them to be obliterated from the planet just because I do not like them. The day we allow others to decide what we can or cannot buy is the day we lose the very freedom on which this country was founded. I will continue to buy David and Goliath products (many of which say nothing about boys at all) because I find them amusing, and because that is my right as an American citizen. I just thank God that I do not live in a communist state like Washington with any "Tilly's" stores, and that my local stores still carry these products. Try using all this negative energy on something more productive and worth fighting against.
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Ok, then I am sure you'll advocate just as strongly a "girls are stupid" clothing series being produced then as a JOKE "as you defended the D&G line".......you'd probably be the first one to cry foul and demand they be pulled!
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