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Wasn't this nut recently discussed here on this forum. Is there a Henry Makow fetish predominating here. QUOTES from Henry Makow:
* For more than 100 years a small Satan-loving cabal consisting of British Aristocrats, Jewish financiers and the Rockefeller-Morgan cartels has been plotting to overthrow Western (Christian) Civilization and monopolize all wealth.
* Wherever they went, some prominent Jews alienated the host population and ruined it for the rest. They created anti Semitism by their business practises, exclusivity, disloyalty, disrespect or because they tried to undermine Christianity, control and change society.
* However the holocaust could have been prevented or at least alleviated had the Zionist leadership behaved honorably.
* The Star of David is really "The Seal of Solomon," an occult symbol for the Satanic.
Dan, is there a hidden agenda in this forum?! Makow has appeared twice in as many weeks. Christianparty and fathersmanifesto made a cameo appearance. What's the deal Dan? Regardless of what you think of Jewish people...remember, others are watching here and noting whom this movement aligns itself with.
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Yes you are correct. Makow does take stabs at Jewish culture. He in fact was Jewish and converted.
I for one don't think Jewish culture is free from critizism anymore than I think christian culture is. Is this a connect the dots game? I don't know.
However I would like feed back on what people think of Makow and his theories. So far all I hear is that he is whacked. But no solid arguements to disprove him.
One thing I do agree with here and that is feminism seems to be destroying our individual rights and denying us justice. I am curious to find out if there is something deeper to this.
I respect all religeons, all cultures, all races, both genders and all choices in sexual adventure.
I do not respect outlets that infringe on my rights or state of well being. Which is why I question the media and urge others to do so aswell.
So to sum up, I am not opposed to homosexuality I am opposed to groups pushing homosexuality on me with brute force. To point out an example.
I can't crack the theories of Makow myself and I have been working on it for a while.
Though I agree there are large leaps in logic here. And I agree Makow is somewhat conservative and appears anti-semite, my point of the greater picture is, we as men's activists should be open to all possibilities and objective thought.
Of course hypocritically I have no religeon and don't give a shit about my nation or my heritage and I believe all men are equal.
It is not the Patriarchy that uses rape to control women, it is Feminism, that uses rape to control women.
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by Anonymous User on Saturday May 24, @02:41AM EST (#3)
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Hey there Dan. Actually, I have a little Jewishness from my Mom's side, and speak regularly with her sister (my aunt, duh.) and other family members up north that are Jewish. There's a large percentage of Jews that are of the secularized, non-religious variety that would be in total agreement with you on this. Generally, thier views are suppresed so as to portray a consistent 'party line', but they exist nonetheless. Makows ideas have actually been around before, for some time, but rather than following the bread crumbs to source, the thought police cry "foul!" It's just more political correctness when that happens, and what's struck me as funnier is to hear or see a Jew get labeled anti-semitic when they notice something 'not quite right' going on with thier own groups. And I hadn't taken it as far in the 'bread crumbs' area to fish out more on this one item: Even if he converted from Judaism, he would still be considered by most of his fellows as, ethnically speaking at least, Jewish.
And really, all that aside, his perception by many as some whacko conspiracy theorist would be swept aside upon deeper examination, and following more of the ideas to their sources, to find in horror that a lot of what he's claiming is...(gasp!) actually happening!
Starza
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I agree with you, Tor. Although I have to admit I found a few interesting things on this site, he lost me when I got down to "Does a Satanic Cult Rule the World?" on his sidebar. Although I think it would be a mistake for the men's movement to be too choosy in selecting allies, this kind of paranoid trash is not going to help us; it is only going to make it easier for the population at large to write us off as nut cases.
Dan, I certainly agree that Jewish culture is not above criticism. Glenn Sacks has done this; I'm sure others have, too. However, saying that the Jews are in league with Satan is not criticism, it's just lunatic raving. At the very best, it is just a distraction from getting to the real root of our problems, and at worst it is the foundational thinking that underpinned some of the worst crimes in history (even if you believe, like the guy mentioned front and center on Makow's page, that only one million Jews were murdered by the Nazis, it is still one for the record books). This fuels exactly the kind of paranoia that allows feminists to say "All men are rapists" and find such credence in society that laws and other policies are enacted on that basis. The paranoia is directed at a different target, but it is really the same process at work.
We need to be looking for the real sources of our problems, not chasing after imaginary Satanic conspiracies.
Anyway, gotta run - ony 40 shopping days left until Lammas Night!*
Mark C
*Actually, I think observing Lammas Night is really more of a Wiccan/Neopagan thing rather than Satanic, but I was hard up for an exit line! :)
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"Let us speak the truth." - George W. Bush, Berlin, Germany, 23 May 2002
If you want someone to present you with the whole truth and nothing but the truth in a neat package tied up with a bow, I'm afraid you're going to be disappointed. Not in this world. You will, of course, encounter any number of people who will offer you just such a deal -- if you let them do your thinking for you. I do my own thinking. Guess I always have. Dunno exactly why, just that even since early childhood I've had the persistent feeling I was being lied to, and as I grew up I kept looking and asking questions (I was nearly expelled from high school for asking unwelcome questions, and barred from returning to college after my first year for the same reason), and have learned that my feeling was correct: practically everything I have ever been told by any "authority figure" has been either half-truth or outright lie. I don't enjoy knowing this, but the truth is the truth.
Nevertheless, twenty-five years ago I might have reacted to something like this web site as most of you appear to: "This guy is a nut." I was still part of the herd then, still believed that despite occasional anomalies, those trucks they were putting us on really were going to take us to greener pastures. But then I began really questioning and looking. And two decades of observation, inquiry and analysis have led me to conclusions regarding the present state of the world, and the history that has led us to where we are, which are closely reflected in the material on Henry Makow's site.
I don't "believe" everything he says -- I don't believe everything anyone says, and in fact my mind doesn't operate in terms of "belief" -- but so far I haven't come across any better explanation for what I see happening every day. Either it's all random accidents, or it's not. If it's not, then deliberate intent is involved, somebody is directing the course of events.
Franklin Roosevelt said, "In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way." Of course, he should know; by now it's clear to anyone who isn't in denial that he (and the shadowy/invisible people who controlled him) deliberately planned the attack on Pearl Harbor, for the express purpose of drawing the USA out of its "isolation" (otherwise known as independence, which was exactly what the Founders intended) into the spiderweb of the world coporate/imperial system.
I still remember the endless indoctrination we were subjected to in 1950s primary/secondary school about WWII, its causes, conduct and consequences. In recent years I've had reason to question a good deal of what I "learned" then about that and every other subject of consequence. I've learned that the very name of the "Civil" War is a lie, and not by accident; that the First Great War was also deliberately planned, including the arranged "atrocity" that propelled the USA into it; that the Great Depression (the "9/11" of its time) was also deliberately planned, etc. etc. etc.
In this context, I find the idea that feminism, with all the mischief it has done, is simply some kind of accident with no connection to any other current or historical events, less than convincing. Exactly how it fits, the extent to which it may have been consciously, deliberately set it motion and guided, I don't know. It may be more a case of open Pandora's box and then leaving it to do its dirty work unaided -- sort of like the 9/11 attack: I don't know if any of what we've been told about it is true, but it could very well be just as simple as that; there are enough people in the Muslim world who are furious over how they've been treated, and could easily be provoked into such an attack -- which certainly suits the agenda of the Ruling Elite.
So far all I hear is that he is whacked. But no solid arguements to disprove him. My sentiments exactly. If anyone here can point me to a better, more cohesive explanation for the current and recent course of world events, I'd be glad to learn. For now, Makow's (and many others') "conspiracy theory" makes a lot of sense. Why is the word "conspiracy" alone considered a sufficient refutation of any argument? The Declaration of Independence was a conspiracy, fergodsake. Why does any questioning of anything any Jewish person has ever done elicit the charge of "anti-semite!"? Why is it illegal in Canada to question the "official" version of the "Holocaust"? Does someone have something to hide?
By the way, if you actually read the material on Makow's site, and others linked there, you'll see that he does not link all Jews with Satanism, or anything similar. In fact, he and others like him -- including a growing number of sincere, orthodox Jews who for quite Biblical reasons reject the secular (i.e. unG-dly) "State of Israel" -- say that the vast majority of Jews have been -- like the rest of us -- duped and used by a small group of very clever people, many of them nominally (but not truly, since they exemplify the exact opposite of a truly religious life) Jewish. As exemplified even by the quotes posted here (supposedly as evidence of Makow's "nut" status, though they seem to me simply accurate statements of history that anyone whose eyes are open can see), this is a more-or-less desperate attempt to awaken the Jews themselves to the fact that they are being set up for yet another Holocaust -- which again will perfectly serve the interests of the Ruling Elite.
Trying to rescue the Jews from the terrible consequences of their own folly is not "anti-semitism"; in fact, much of the Holy Scriptures (aka the Old Testament) themselves consist of stories of Jewish prophets who tried to do the same thing -- usually with little success, which is why truly religious Jews believe their exile from their "promised land" to be their own fault, and the re-establishment of Israel by force of arms, rather than by G-d's grace, to be a blasphemy.
"We will have a world government whether you like it or not. The only question is whether that government will be achieved by conquest or consent." -- (Jewish) Banker Paul Warburg, February 17, 1950, before the U.S. Senate. (BTW, during the 1930s Paul Warburg was head of the Federal Reserve bank system in the U.S., while his brother was head of the Reichsbank in Germany. Conspiracy?)
I am not nor have ever been either Jew or Christian. Nor am I any kind of Satan worshiper -- which strikes me as just about the most stupid thing anyone could do. I am a truth seeker and self-activating thinker. The idea that I have to be careful what I read or think so as not to give the "men's movement" a bad name -- in the minds of its enemies! -- is just why I don't consider myself part of same. Movements are what herds do. Herds are made up of females and/or prey animals -- which is just what the Ruling Elite ("Satanic" or not) thinks the rest of us are. If you're going to let the herd decide what you think, why bother to think at all?
We need to be looking for the real sources of our problems, not chasing after imaginary Satanic conspiracies. Okay, show me. What are the real sources of our problems, since you know so much? Really, if you have a better explanation, I'd like to know. The picture painted by Henry Makow (and dozens, maybe hundreds of other researchers I've read and heard over the last two decades) is certainly depressing; if there's a prettier one, I'd really like to hear about it.
When the Man said, "The truth shall make you free," he didn't mean "against your will." If you want to know the truth, it's available, but you have to be willing to look, think, and learn.
"There is but one way to know the truth, and it is not a golden one. It is fraught with toil and sacrifice and perhaps ridicule. The seeker of the truth must be fearless, he must not be afraid to enter the innermost holies of holies, and to tear down the veils of superstition that hang about any human and so-called divine institution. It is the truth that makes men free. If the truth tears down every church and government under the sun, let the truth be known." -- Charles Austin Beard, 1898
"The opinion of 10,000 men is of no value if none of them know anything about the subject." -- Marcus Aurelius, Roman Emperor 121-180 C.E. and Stoic philosopher
"Your failure to be informed does not make me a wacko." -- John Loeffler
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Some great quotes, Phil.
I agree that the men's movement should not be one of Totalitarinism. Meaning dictating what the supporters should and should not do or think. That is PC and that is what we are essentially fighting.
The best arguement I have heard against makow's work is simply 'evolution'. Things like communism and socialism on the surface are great things, or sound nice. But on a deeper level, an Orweillian level, Makow has some great points.
Men are being subjugated, more and more prisons are being built. Feminists laws have everyone turned against eachother and have destroyed the family unit with distrust. Anyone can call children's services. While the rest of us get poorer and poorer.
People are going to jail without trials and many plead guilty just to avoid sitting in jail until trial. Accusations are king, men and women are divided.
Feminism is about divide and conquer, I am convinced it has nothing to do with women.
It is not the Patriarchy that uses rape to control women, it is Feminism, that uses rape to control women.
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" However, saying that the Jews are in league with Satan is not criticism, it's just lunatic raving."
I don't think this is what is being said. I think that its about a Satanic Cult and that some Jews are affiliated etc...
Not that I care, the point that is here is that the site is called 'Save the Males'. Which means Makow does have some very insightful messages on his web page.
The men's movement should not be a solidarity. The men's movement should be undefinable with as many leaders in it as their are men.
This is why feminism has become so strong, they have no definition so they can not be critiziced. They have no one leader so they can't be defined by that.
The interests of men should be of the individual choice.
Paternity fraud is a crime against everyone, not just men.
With that said, I don't have a beef with Jews, I have a beef with the media, and I feel we should be questioning the media much more harshly. If some individuals or the state gets in my way, damn them, clearly they are a part of the problem. If some of them are jews don't take it personal, because the issues really are seperate to me.
I believe in the Universial Theme of religeon as fully described in Joseph Campbell's 'The Hero With A Thousand Faces'.
Men like Lucas, Speilburg and various others were very influenced by Campbell's work as well.
I also think that feminism is 'state' driven, and ultamately will transfer all of the powers, rights and wealth from the individual to the state. Feminism is waging war with women just as much as it is with men.
It is not the Patriarchy that uses rape to control women, it is Feminism, that uses rape to control women.
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Dan Lynch wrote in defense of Hanry Makow:
"So far all I hear is that he is whacked. But no solid arguements to disprove him."
Sorry Dan, not letting you off the hook that easy. Makow seems to be sort of a hero of yours, a champion, an exemplar. You seem to have adopted his views as your own. Makow's rhetoric is chock full of anti-semitic slander, bigotry and vile. The impetus is on you to support his theses, not on others to disprove them. Come on Dan, stand by your man and fill this forum with your intelligence. Here's a reprint of a few of Makow's barnyard bromides, tell us in your own words of the veracity and soundness of his spew.
* "For more than 100 years a small Satan-loving cabal consisting of British Aristocrats, Jewish financiers and the Rockefeller-Morgan cartels has been plotting to overthrow Western (Christian) Civilization and monopolize all wealth."
---Please Dan, share with us details of this satanic cult and Jewish conspiracy hellbent on world domination.
* "Wherever they went, some prominent Jews alienated the host population and ruined it for the rest. They created anti Semitism by their business practises, exclusivity, disloyalty, disrespect or because they tried to undermine Christianity, control and change society."
---Come on Dan, share with us types of vulgar business practices employed by Jewish people. Tell us of the marked disrespect they exhibit and their undermining of christianity. Yathink maybe anti-semitism has a different cause?
* "The holocaust could have been prevented or at least alleviated had the Zionist leadership behaved honorably."
---oh yes Dan, this one sounds like the Jews were responsible for their own holocaust. Sounds like WWII genocide was justified due to dishonorable Jewish behavior. Please dan, tell me it ain't so!
Well Dan, YOU brought this garbage into this public forum for all the world to read. Defend this shit. Are you his publicist? Or maybe it just make you feel good to have another scapegoat to blame for your problems.
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"Well Dan, YOU brought this garbage into this public forum for all the world to read. Defend this shit. Are you his publicist? Or maybe it just make you feel good to have another scapegoat to blame for your problems."
Classic diversion. You would make a great feminist. In each and every case Makow points to an individual basis.
It is very possible to think that some jews could have avoided the staple of the haloucaust had they been moral and upright people.
Henry the eigth murderd several wives because he couldn't have a son then changed his religeon to Anglican. Are all catholics scum bags because of King Henry?
You point out all anything that seems anti-semite, but the issue here is--Feminism is strinkingly similiar to Nazism and Stalinism. It is the exact same ideology, the very same premise with the same intent.
Just exchange the Nationalism for Feminism and add Socialism. And you get the Feminist Socialist Party, on a world scale, a grand scale, not just a national scale.
The supporters of nazis soon changed to supporting feminism after the war. 'Today Germany Tomorrow the World'. That 'tomorrow' is today.
Don't be distracted by trivial quotes when the very same essenced that threated the jews before is now threatening us all today.
The only way for us to survive is to be extremely critical and objective. This isn't about jews or christians or muslims this is about stopping tyranny.
When 99% of the worlds wealth is divied out to about 1% of the population you have to seriously begin to ask yourself who we are really at war with.
Im sorry you are offended.
It is not the Patriarchy that uses rape to control women, it is Feminism, that uses rape to control women.
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You're spinning Dan.
* "Classic diversion. You would make a great feminist. In each and every case Makow points to an individual basis."
No diversion Dan, I'm going to the heart of his theses. He speaks of satanic cabals and Jewish conspiracy for world domination. Can YOU support these assertions Dan? Yes or no.
* "It is very possible to think that some jews could have avoided the staple of the haloucaust had they been moral and upright people."
It's very 'possible' that men could avoid having their children stripped by the courts if they would simply be responsible parents! It's possible one's father wouldn't have been murdered if you were a better son. Doesn't sound so good in this context does it Dan? Anything's possible - your statement is meaningless. Actually your statement is itself a diversion as my example serves to demonstrate.
* "Henry the eigth murderd several wives because he couldn't have a son then changed his religeon to Anglican. Are all catholics scum bags because of King Henry?"
And blacks and latinos are lazy, devious, and criminal. Sound racist, it is! However, I can prove this destructive statement by producing two black and two latino people who fit the profile. I didn't say "all", did I. Dan, can't you tell the difference between hostile, divisive rhetoric and honest intellectual debate?
* "You point out all anything that seems anti-semite, but the issue here is--Feminism is strinkingly similiar to Nazism and Stalinism. It is the exact same ideology, the very same premise with the same intent."
Fine Dan, now go to christianparty.com and fathersmanifesto.com. Since the issue here is feminism, as you say, those websites should suit you fine. You let us know. I'll tell you only once more Dan, the issue is not feminism per se..the issue is integrity, soundness, liberty, truth, and the spirit of love. Feminism is but a buzzword for the antithesis of the above. There are other such antitheses.
* "Just exchange the Nationalism for Feminism and add Socialism. And you get the Feminist Socialist Party, on a world scale, a grand scale, not just a national scale."
So what Dan, you CAN assert your proposition without aligning yourself with a hatemonger. Aren't you better than that? Or maybe you can't develope you own independent reasoning and instead you merely latch on to whomever floats your boat integrity notwithstanding.
* "The supporters of nazis soon changed to supporting feminism after the war. 'Today Germany Tomorrow the World'. That 'tomorrow' is today."
So what Dan, this leads you to align yourself with a hatemonger who spews divisive and inflammatory garbage. There may or may not be some truths in 'Mien Kampf'...do you keep a copy by your bed as a bible? There may be some truths in Makow's writings...a broken clock is right twice a day. Can't you find better inspiration?
* "Don't be distracted by trivial quotes when the very same essenced that threated the jews before is now threatening us all today."
Racist, inflammatory rhetoric is NOT trivial. What's wrong with you Dan? You sit here and identify, attack, criticise, and bemoan the misandrist, inflammatory crap on TV. You're a hypocrite. Is that stuff trivial quotes? Trivial representations of men?
* "The only way for us to survive is to be extremely critical and objective. This isn't about jews or christians or muslims this is about stopping tyranny."
Granted, but you stop tyranny by aligning yourself with good not evil. Makow is vulgar, slanderous, inflammatory and writes in the spirit of divisiveness. I thought this movement was designed to inculcate the aspirations of integrity and fairness in the spirit of unification...for all.
* "When 99% of the worlds wealth is divied out to about 1% of the population you have to seriously begin to ask yourself who we are really at war with."
Ask Makow, he'll tell ya...da Jews.
Dan, you're better than this.
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You're frothing, Tor. What's the big deal? Why is it so important to you to suppress this information? Your style of "argument" is sheer bullying, no reason at all.
The material on Makow's site is "inflammatory" only to someone who will absolutely tolerate no questions of the Received Truth promulgated by the controlled media et al. on the subjects Makow addresses. In a situation where honest, open inquiry is suppressed, as in any dictatorship, whether of the "left," "right," "center," or The Matriarchy, the truth -- or anything which deviates from the Official Line -- is always "inflammatory," because it might lead to people thinking, rather than simply obeying like sheep.
Dan, is this what you meant when you said you'd pull the item if anyone was "offended"? Note how such a policy leaves you open to manipulation by the unscrupulous, who will always be "offended" by anything that challenges the world view they want to force on everyone. I hope you won't let yourself be bullied by such tactics.
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine
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* "You're frothing, Tor. What's the big deal? Why is it so important to you to suppress this information?"
Sorry Phil, this ain't 'information'. It's theory, it's speculation, conjecture, and innuendo. Information is data or facts. Theory is NOT information. You should know the difference. BTW why is it so important for YOU to tout this unsubstantiated 'theory'?
* "The material on Makow's site is "inflammatory" only to someone who will absolutely tolerate no questions of the Received Truth promulgated by the controlled media et al on the subjects Makow addresses."
Thank you for defining in absolute terms the one defining characteristic quality of the set of people who find Makow inflammatory. Your conclusion is improperly drawn and incorrect, it's presumptious, wrong, and itself antagonistic.
* "In a situation where honest, open inquiry is suppressed, as in any dictatorship, whether of the "left," "right," "center," or The Matriarchy, the truth -- or anything which deviates from the Official Line -- is always "inflammatory," because it might lead to people thinking, rather than simply obeying like sheep."
Please Phil, we don't live in a dictatorship. In addition, Makow is inflammatory not because he deviates from the party line, but because he basically creates satanic Jewish world domination conspiracies out of whole cloth. He seeks to incite and antagonize. His personal demeanor and comportment compliments his writings. He appeals to those who simply want to believe what he writes. There is nothing fitting nor proper about much of which he presents, it's speculation and conjecture written in the spirit of divisiveness. That his theories fill a void in your own contemplation of the world does not make them valid.
* "Dan, is this what you meant when you said you'd pull the item if anyone was "offended"? Note how such a policy leaves you open to manipulation by the unscrupulous, who will always be "offended" by anything that challenges the world view they want to force on everyone. I hope you won't let yourself be bullied by such tactics."
Your characterization of me as unscrupulous is itself an unwarranted ad hominem. It's telling and revealing of your irrational protection of Makow's unsubstantiated rhetoric. I'm not bullying Dan, he's a big boy whose up to a challenge. So far in all these posts my most pointed questions regarding Makow and his theses have been left completely unanswered. Is anybody up to the challenge?
* "He who dares not offend cannot be honest."
Did I offend you Phil? Good! Now you can trust my sincerity.
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Actually no, my point of not posting Makow's site was because of his statements about sept/11th.
His veiws are which he thinks the Bush administration have performed the attacks themselves. Along with many other groups who are thinking the same thing.
Im an anthropologist, I think long and deep talks on race, culture and gender are healthy for us. Which is why I post contradictory veiws.
But many posters here may still be upset or offended or whatever about the tradgedy of thousands dieing at the world trade center. It doesn't make it better if one is blaming the very same country of doing it to their own people.
Regardless of what I believe about sept/11ths events on this board I choose to steer away from it as an administrator.
It is not the Patriarchy that uses rape to control women, it is Feminism, that uses rape to control women.
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