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This will continue until we have a large enough constituency to stop being regarded as "the lunatic fringe" or as reactionaries.
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I wouldn't worry too much about the continuance of this ad, Thundercloud. This is a tactical setback, not a strategic defeat. Our battle will be long and hard, but we will win.
With government sponsored crimes against fathers, the systematic ensuring that males don't benefit from increased educational opportunities, skyrocketing male-suicide rates, etc., I just hope that someday we can bring the worst misandrists to justice.
My Merriam-Webster Dictionary defines "crime against humanity" as "atrocity (as extermination or enslavement) that is directed especially against an entire population or part of a population on specious grounds and without regard to individual guilt or responsibility even on such grounds."
There is no doubt that many misandrist actions are crimes against humanity.
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by Marc Angelucci on Thursday September 05, @04:30PM EST (#3)
(User #61 Info)
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At least one person, probably more, have cancelled their Progressive policies over this and told Progressive why. But no doubt hundreds of us will always remember not to purchase Progressive and will tell others in the future, just as we to this day won't buy Hallmark. Progressive's actions are recorded. The impact will last longer than they think. It will come back to haunt them.
BTW, Thundercloud, we need people like you, so if you're gonna bang your head on a wall as you said, I suggest instead using a window at your local Progressive branch office. If their windows are as hollow as their heads your head should be alright. Wear a helmet just in case.
And do it to Metallica's "Disposable Heroes."
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Could it be that Progressive is merely running this commercial because of the investment dollars that it took to create the advertisement? Sort of a "sunk cost" fallacy at play?
Perhaps this current offensive commercial will run its course, but future commercials will not have such blatant misandry. One can only hope so.
Steve
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by incredibletulkas on Thursday September 05, @09:43PM EST (#6)
(User #901 Info)
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the fact is that they have NO RIGHT to air such offensive misandristic hate-messages, particularly of such a sick, horrendous and personal nature- this is a new low in misandry and male-bashing, and would NEVER be aired if the gender-roles were reversed in the ad.
Only a complete fool would tolerate this type of abuse, and only a sick deranged mind would compose such a commercial.
I also would think we should petition the FCC to revoke the licenses of those stations which air this ad, since it is obviously an abuse of the public airwaves which is not in the public interest.
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I agree with your comments about the commercial, but was wondering if Progressive did take notice not to do this for future commercials. Of course, the current commercial is still appallingly offensive, and should be removed right away.
Steve
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by Anonymous User on Friday September 06, @03:26AM EST (#9)
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Actually, We did have at least SOME impact.
Remember they DID pull the ad, for about a month.
What escapes me is why they began running it AGAIN. It was almost as if they thought, if they pulled it for a while, then re-aired it later NO ONE would NOTICE!
Equalitarian and Incredibletulkas, You both made good points. as You said, Equalitarian, it could be that they will not make similar ads in the future, because of the heat they took. Allthough I'm not as opptimistic as you are. As long as this sort of thing sells to WOMEN, they will continue to do it.(IMO)
Incredibletulkas, I'm glad you brought up the FCC.
Did anyone else try to contact them about this?
I got absolutely NO response from them, myself.
This whole thing reminds me of another incident that occured nearly 20 years ago. Only in this case it was WOMEN who were outraged.
It seems that a particular type of magazine on the news stands offended them greatly. These were "Detective" magazines. On the covers of these magazines Women were often depicted in "sexual situations", Their cloths torn nearly completely off, They were shown "tied up" and\or about to be raped, Etc.
When women wrote to these magazines to protest, those magazines disapeared virtualy over night.
It must be nice, that when something is obviously degrading to your sex, all you have to do is write a few letters and it simply 'goes away'.
But, of course, it apearantly only works that way if you're FEMALE.
(*Sigh* Where's my wall? oh, here it is. BANG BANG BANG BANG.)
Thundercloud.
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by Anonymous User on Friday September 06, @04:30PM EST (#14)
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Actually, I hate to tell you but they NEVER pulled the ad. I remember when you or others had mentioned they hadn't seen it in a while, but I saw it the next day on some late night show.. and several times thereafter. It was never pulled, and because there has been no media outrage it and others like it will continue - in fact they probably pat themselves on the back for all the laughs they get - and may even try for a commercial hall of fame...
Trust me, they have no respect for us or Mens Rights.. if anything they would probably love the publicity (if we could actually convince a media outlet to give us publicity).
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by Anonymous User on Friday September 06, @06:01PM EST (#16)
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((("Actually, I hate to tell you but they never pulled the ad.")))
Like I said, I didn't see it for nearly a month.
But that may be because I'm watching less and less TV all the time. So if they didn't pull the ad, I'm not suprised.
You mentioned you saw it "late night". In that case that's probably where they moved the ad for a time, which would further explain why it seemed they might have pulled it, I don't watch late night TV, hardly at all. So all in all, It seems they may have pulled a "slight of hand" on us, simply shuffleing the commercial, temporarily, untill some of the "heat" died down.
Even if this all IS the case, We did, still have at least SOME impact. allbeit, not a whole lot.
Thanks, 'Anon', you've really given me food for thought.
Anyway, let's work on the FCC and see what happens. Like I said earlier, we'll probably get the same treatment they got in Austrailia, when Aussies protested that billboard, But let's try anyway.
As for the media giveing US publicity...,
Don't hold your breath. The media is PART of all this. Accomplices in every sence of the word.
Thundercloud.
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In probing an enemies lines for strengths and weaknesses not every effort results in the revelation of a potential to be seized on. The failures are often lessons in what strengths of the enemy to avoid, what tactics are ineffective, etc. Often completely unknown or unanticipated information is discovered that reveals a need for completely new tactics or a different strategy.
This is a war that we are in, and we should not be put off by the lack of immediate success in every situation.
Our consummer driven society conditions us to expect immediate gratification of our needs through use of our ($) power($) as consumers. This mindset, conditioned by the endless commercial messages we view, tends to subconsciously carry over into many other areas of our lives.
Arrogant advertisers scornfully and disrespectfully show us, that in their power to condition, control and manipulate the thought processes of the public, they will not be disuaded in even the slightest degree by a pip-squeak bunch of powerless men. Men, who they have no qualms about exploiting in violently abusive public advertising. It appears that moral concerns towards societal ills (that are exacerbated by irresponsible commercial exploitation of a group of people), are no factor in the unethical pursuit to enhance profits in some greed driven businesses.
Unethical, capitalistic, maggot-like businesses know only one motivation, "What sells, what increases the company profits, what adds to the bottom line. It is only there that these kinds of capitalistic entities can feel any impact that will cause them to change their behavior.
Ray
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by Anonymous User on Saturday September 07, @02:43AM EST (#19)
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Ray,
As usual, what you say is true and well thought out.
What you said about "big buiness" especialy rings true.
I think I may have mentioned this before, But the whole thing about useing anti-male hate speech to sell to women should be un-settleing to even the most calloused individuals.
For one thing, One MUST ask themselves, 'What DOES this say about Women in America?' The fact that absolutely sadistic, brutal violence and hate towards men SELLS to WOMEN should be a wake up call.
I.M.O. This tells ME that the vast MAJORITY of women in this country (and Australia, Canada and England) are BIGOTS, plain and simple. If not this sort of thing would NOT be used to sell things to them!! and if it DIDN'T work on the MAJORITY of women, they wouldn't use this selling tactic, at all.
Notice the SAME type of "tactic" is NOT used to sell to MEN. I.E. I have NEVER seen a commercial that brutalized, degraded, humiliated or dehumanized WOMEN to sell things to MEN! I HAVE NEVER SEEN THIS DONE!
Again, I think this TELLS us something.
Something else..., There seeme to be NO END of excuses as to WHY degrading and dehuminizeing men, especialy at the hands of a woman, is okay.
One of the excuses I hear MOST often is; "It's okay, because of what men have "done" to women."
Like I said to Dan Lynch on another thread, That "logic" makes about as much sence as ME saying; "It's okay to dehumanize and degrade WHITE PEOPLE for what they did to INDIANS."
Yes, SOME white people did really nasty things to my people, But ALOT didn't. AND the MAJORITY of white people today had NOTHING to do with what happened THEN. So to take an ENTIRE group of people and lump them into one big, monalithical category is FLAT OUT PREJIDUCE!
DID men oppress women at one time? Maybe. If so, it was LONG before I, and MANY other men were even born! ERGO, few or NO men liveing today EVER oppressed women!
HOW can one commit a "crime" when they aren't even BORN?!? They CAN'T. (obviously.) Therefore the whole "logic" of "It's okay to dehumanize and degrade Men because of what they "did" to women", falls, apocalypticaly, FLAT ON IT'S FACE!
Hithero, to ANY thinking, reasonable person, this is nothing more than a rationalization of prejiduce.
I have seen it again and again..., prejiduces ALWAYS have one thing in common, EXCUSES!
The Nazis made excuses to hate the jewish people, The U.S. government made excuses to hate my people, The English made excuses to hate the Irish, The Taliban make excuses to hate Americans, and a majority of today's women make excuses to hate men.
SEWAGE is SEWAGE no matter WHAT pipe it spews from.
Allright, I've made my point, I'll back off now.
Thundercloud.
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Ray wrote:
In probing an enemies lines for strengths and weaknesses not every effort results in the revelation of a potential to be seized on. The failures are often lessons in what strengths of the enemy to avoid, what tactics are ineffective, etc. Often completely unknown or unanticipated information is discovered that reveals a need for completely new tactics or a different strategy.
Well said, Ray. Very true and insightful.
It's a truth in military matters that it's almost always more advantageous to attack where your enemy is weak or unprepared.
Modern western media is the most powerful propoganda tool in history, and the media is a primary area where feminist ideology is strongest.
It might even be fair to say that the media *is* feminism's strength.
It's not that we shouldn't continue to lay seige to this stronghold; we should. We just need to realize that we're throwing stones against the castle wall and it's going to take a LOT of stones before the cracks start to appear.
Where feminism is weakest is in their lies, greed, and hypocricy: their so-called 'studies' and 'statistics,' their professed dedication to 'respect and equality for all persons' [gag] while at the same time proving themselves to be a most venal, selfish, grasping group of irresponsible, intolerant, and thoroughly immoral thugs, who care nothing for the harm they cause to men, children, other women, and society itself in their rapacious quest for more, More, MORE.
2500 years ago a very wise man wrote down the things one must do to prevail in a conflict. The rules haven't changed. His words are as valuable today as they have ever been. Every man should read (or re-read) Sun Tzu's The Art of War.
Personally, I prefer the translation by the late Samuel B. Griffith -- who was both a renowned scholar of Chinese history, and a General in the US military. He has an appreciation of the military matters that some other, more strctly academic, translators don't seem to grasp. (Oxford University Press, ISBN 0-19-501476-6)
Ragtime
The opinions expressed in this posting are my own, but you're welcome to adopt them.
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by Anonymous User on Friday September 06, @03:40AM EST (#10)
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You know what, Mark? I probably, really SHOULD go over to their local office and bang my head on their window.
The way I look, it would likely SCARE the daylights out of them.
Imagine seeing a big Indian guy with long braided hair, wearing studded black leather braid-wraps, beaded belt buckle and wearing a T-shirt saying; "MARS TO VENUS, BACK OFF!", Banging his head against your window!!
Now THAT'S SCARY! (^-^)
Thundercloud.
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Yea, to Progressive stereotypes are everything. That could be dangerous.
Maybe you could tell them it was just intended to be funny (you were copy-catting their style), and ask them what's the matter with their sense of humor.
I wouldn't recommend it though, somehow I don't think these bigots have a very keen social awareness or sensitivity. I would doubt they find things funny, when the shoe is on the other foot.
Ray
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by Anonymous User on Friday September 06, @05:24PM EST (#15)
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Well, maybe my "shoe on the other foot" should be in their back-sides.
Then like you said, Ray, I could just tell them it was meant in a HUMOROUS way. Hey, I'D be laughing!
Thundercloud.
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I love it. Just the thought.
I checked information and the listing for a local branch here in LA gives a bad phone number. Otherwise maybe we'd bang our heads down here and pay your transportation to join us.
A few stickers wouldn't hurt either.
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by Anonymous User on Saturday September 07, @03:49AM EST (#21)
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Works for me, Marc.
Hmm, maybe instead of baning OUR heads against the wall, we should just bang THEIR heads against the wall. (^-^)
Oh, yeah, The stickers idea is a good one too.
We could paste a bunch all over the office, inside and out. Then, if we have any left over, we can stick them up their... Well, you get the idea. (^-^)
And John, before you say it, I KNOW, I KNOW, "Makeing real threats against real people is ilegal and unethical."
I'm just venting, again.
Thundercloud.
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O.K. forget the real people. Can we borrow a page from Progressive Insurance and make a cardboard cut out that looks like a real woman (dress her up as an insurance salesperson) and maybe picket their stores. We could tie a string to a pair of vise grips (locking pliers), then lock the pliers onto the crotch of the cardborad cut out, and carry a sign that says: "PROGRESSIVE IS REGRESSIVE by condoning violence."
Considering the extent of the double standard in this country we'd probably be arrested for scaring women. In Nazi America, under the double standard called law, that's domestic violence you know.
I'm going to sleep under my bed tonight. This stuff's really begining to scare me, but that's o.k. It's not against the law to scare the heck out of men. Statistics (insurance and otherwise), prove overwhelmingly men are expendable, and not "ENTITLED" to equal protection of any kind.
You know, either I've lost my sense of humor or this stuff just isn't funny, because no matter how hard I try to make a joke out of all this witless Progressive advertising it still comes out sounding just plain sicko.
Ray
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by mbr
(spamproofed address: mbr at arlsoft dot com)
on Sunday September 08, @01:55PM EST (#24)
(User #821 Info)
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In the current climate, it's important to make every effort to prevent our message from being misinterpreted. A pair of vise grips on the crotch of a cardboard cutout of a woman would unquestionably be used by unscrupulous members of the news media to misrepresent our intent. On the other hand, a cardboard cutout of a man with a pair of vise grips on his crotch next to a cardboard cutout of a woman holding the handles of those vise grips would make it much harder for the media to misrepresent our message. Especially if it were accompanied by a big sign saying something like "Boycott Progressive Insurance until they publicly apologize for promoting violence against men." Even better would be if we could find out what agency created the ad, and have the sign say "Boycott Progressive Insurance and ??? Ad Agency until they publicly apologize for promoting violence against men."
But if you want this to have any effect, you'll have to turn it into a media event. That means lining up sympathetic members of the news media in advance.
Mark Rosenthal
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by Anonymous User on Sunday September 08, @02:56PM EST (#25)
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The only media journalist that would possibly stand up for men's rights, is Bernard Goldberg.
Of course he was terminated for doing just that.
As I have said before, And I can't STRESS this enough, people, The media is HAND in GLOVE with the Marx-fems.
even IF there ARE those in the media who support us, they don't DARE speak out. The media has a VERY strict (politicaly correct) "speech code".
We will get support from the media when certain very warm places FREEZE OVER.
Thundercloud.
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Those are important details and wise advice.
Thanks,
Ray
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Darn strings, not putting things in proper sequence. Let me try this again.
Mark Rosenthal:
Those are important details and wise advice.
Thanks,
Ray
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by incredibletulkas on Thursday September 05, @09:38PM EST (#5)
(User #901 Info)
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Take 'em to court!
I think think's time we did just that-- this is clearly misandry of the highest caliber, no different from racism or anti-semitism.
Progressive.com needs to learn that freedom of speech does NOT give absolute license to use the public airwaves to commit unbridled hate-messages against a particular group.
I've warned them to pull the ad or face legal action-- they've clearly opted for the latter.
Let's lock and load.
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by incredibletulkas on Thursday September 05, @10:01PM EST (#7)
(User #901 Info)
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I just wrote the following letter to the FCC and encourage everyone else here to do likewise.
Here is the text of the letter:
To: fccinfo@fcc.gov
Re: Hate-messages
Hello;
I wish to file a complaint regarding a certain hate-message ad by Progressive.com, whose corporate headquarters are located at:
Corporate Headquarters
Progressive Insurance
6300 Wilson Mills Road
Mayfield Village, Ohio 44143
Progressive.com has taken the liberty to air an advertisement filled with blatant misandrist hate-messages, showing a vengeful feminist woman horrendously physically abusing and humiliating a man, and ending by showing him crushing his genitals with a pair of pliers; furthermore, this is portrayed as some sort of humor, which is likewise used as a disguise for the blatant hate and disrespect.
This is not not only sick, it is a blatant abuse of the public-airwaves to degrade men, and is no better than a show of racism by featuring an ad in which a black person is shown being comically tortured and lynched by Klansmen, or showing of a Jew being tortured and executed by Nazis.
I believe that this not only breaches the FCC's "public interest" policy regarding use of the public airwaves, but I further believe that this falls well outside penumbral protections of the First Amendment, particularly under color of "Fighting Words."
In this interest, I would like the FCC to take action to sanction Progressive.com for such sick and antisocial hate-messages made in violation of the rights and sensibilities of the viewing public; I would furthermore also like to see similar sanctions enforced against stations which broadcast such horrendous and offensive content.
--Brian McCandliss
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by Anonymous User on Friday September 06, @04:00AM EST (#11)
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Incredibletulkas,
Good letter. As I stated in an earlier post, I got NO reply from the FCC at all. I hope you have better luck than I did.
Of course, that doesn't stop anyone from trying again.
Remember in the recent post about the "BLACSHIRTS", I brought up the billboards displayed in Austrailia, depicting a "dominant" Woman walking two naked men on a leash like dogs?
The Austrailian version of the FCC was ALSO contacted about this horrendous ad, But THEIR reply was that it "Violated NO standards of decency." (!)
The mentality towards men in Austrailia and the U.S. (Not to mention Canada) are identicle; WOMEN= off limits. MEN= open season.
My point now, as it was then is, Will the FCC treat us the same way as Austrailia's "FCC" treated their own complaintants??
I get this creepy feeling the ansewer is "Yes".
Thundercloud.
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Little background....
Years ago. when my ex-wife was still in the picture, she was fond of throwing up "Ann Landers" in my face. She laughed off my claims the ol' Annie was a bigoted witch who always took the woman's side.
So I proved it. I wrote two letters, changed the gender, included SASE's for different return addresses, but kept all the particulars the saem.
The results were predictable. The return to the "male" more or less started out "You insensitive boob" and the letter to the female started out "You poor thing, what are you doing with that beast?"
Exwifey wasn't happy - but it shut her up. I didn't hear diddly about "Ann Landers" ever again.
We should pass the hat, make up a couple of web ads - keeping all particulars the same, and just change the genders. Submit them from two different groups. Track responses, and even more so, keep track of who rejects one and accepts the other.
Yeah, people might decry it as unscientific, but if we can get some publicity out of it, a lot of places might flinch when confronted with a misandric ad - is it legit? Or those whacky men again trying to give us another coating of egg on our faces?
(Fell Lucky? Do ya? Well, do you feel lucky - PUNK?)
I'll pledge $20 to this effort. Maybe more.
---- Burn, Baby, Burn ----
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It never does any harm to document these types of events as well as possible, if you have the space to store a few extra files.
In the future as the movement grows, we may have more resources to deal with this kind of thing. Should Progressives' involvement in abusive advertising towards men continue, a long well documented history of their proclivity to engage in this gender biased discrimination could be very significant.
Sometimes it is best not to blow your cover as you slowly and unassumingly increase the flame on the pot holding the water that is boiling the frog.
Patience is a rare commodity in our American, capitalistic mind set, yet when feeding out the rope to be used to hang your enemy it is a virtue worth its weight in gold.
Dare I say it? Soups on, frog soup that is. It is better to stew the frog then to stew in the juices of ones own frustration or inactivity.
As and old Vietnam vet I am still very impressed at the unwavering patience, strength of conviction, and sacrifice of those people over there that America fought against in their struggle to attain there goals. Regardless of whether they were wrong or right, they were tough, and so too should we be in this.
Best Regards,
Ray
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