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She marched with Gloria Steinem and now she wants us to believe that she suddenly became manfriendly? My ass, paternity fraud is big money for that feminazi, she doesn't give a rat's ass about men.
Bert.
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From now on, men's rights first.
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by A.J. on 04:34 PM April 9th, 2006 EST (#5)
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I like that part about the guy who recently won the right to sue the real biological father for $110,000 in a paternity fraud case in New Jersey.
But the real father says he was conned also. If he knew nothing about the child being his he’s also been conned - out of his rights as a parent. And the child has been conned – out of knowing who his father is.
"His position has been it should be the mother, who lied to everybody, who pays," said Bocker of the Law Offices of Herman Osofsky in Clifton, N.J.
If these accusations are true then the deception was perpetrated solely by the mother and that’s where the liability should be. Considering that the child is now 30 years old wouldn’t it be difficult to use the child as a human shield to protect the real perp as is SOP with a minor child? Is the development of a 30 year "child" going to suffer because his mother is sued? I don't think so.
But never underestimate the "divine prerogatives of motherhood" recognized by our court systems. (thanks to David Usher for that treasured phrase)
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by Davidadelong on 09:15 PM April 8th, 2006 EST (#3)
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I doubt this Womans motivation is monetary, and her comments are definately not "pc". Calling Men what the system has been using them as is somewhat inflamitory for an Attorney. How do we rectify the damage that the system has wraught on our People? How do we trust the same people that willingly allowed this to happen to continue to control us? Burn me once shame on you, burn me twice shame on me. I have heard that there is a paradigm shift in the air, for the sake of Humanity and the future of our progeny I surely hope so. But I do not trust the people that have conspired against the Citizens of our Nation to give up their deceitful ways, and neither should you............Perhaps our votes should really count as if we were actually participating Citizens of our Nation, instead of slaves born to serve the elite. Just a thought.
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by brotherskeeper on 03:44 PM April 9th, 2006 EST (#4)
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Most are from women (5 women, 2 men -- although one of the women argues that fraud is minimal).
This highlights several potential problems MRAs are facing:
1. The author is apparently cherry-picking. The idea that a woman journalist or lawyer would have feminist leanings should surprise no one. How many female lawyers have actually argued that men have been taken by feminists and should be fighting back for THEMSELVES? Ummm, let's see, there's Phyllis Schlafley, and, ummm, let's see, ummm...
Which leads to point two.
2. These articles smell suspiciously of female valorizing. They leave the impression that many of the women that helped get us into this mess are really the heroes getting us out of the mess (Carol Gilligan is probably the poster child for those of this ilk). Of course, lip service is paid, in the article, to the fact that women are committing fraud, but I find it weak. Why not interview Sacks/Levine or Steven Baskerville -- get it truly white hot from the horses mouth? This is left as an exercise for the reader...
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by Hunchback on 08:55 AM April 10th, 2006 EST (#6)
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These articles smell suspiciously of female valorizing. They leave the impression that many of the women that helped get us into this mess are really the heroes getting us out of the mess (Carol Gilligan is probably the poster child for those of this ilk).
AMEN. They are putting the healing of males into the hands of our assailants. Gee, thanks.
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by Davidadelong on 09:45 AM April 10th, 2006 EST (#7)
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I would suggest that in order for Males to truly heal, they cannot do it alone. If we allow the propaganda to work and we become completely allienated from the Female of the species we will have lost. Why discourage a helping hand when you are drowning? The healing of Males unfortunately will be done on an individual basis, sometimes with help from others, and sometimes without. People grow and change all the time, I would suggest that Woman can as well......
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If we allow the propaganda to work and we become completely allienated from the Female of the species we will have lost.
That's pussy woosy talk and totally crap.
It was them who started allienating about 40 years ago and it's them who now start realizing what they have lost. Too bad for the feminazis, many men, I'm one of them, don't want them back. To hell with the bitches.
Bert
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From now on, men's rights first.
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by Davidadelong on 07:49 PM April 10th, 2006 EST (#10)
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Bert, I have refrained from even reading most of your posts as they remind me of a teenager that doesn't use his brains. Either you really hate Women, or you are an agent for the system trying to initiate hate. There has been no society in history that was sucessful that oppressed one gender over the other. Unless of course you are a proponent of the Spartan way of life, somewhat perverted if you ask me though. I do not see any future without the cooperation and participation of Women. So, if my comment was "pussy woosy" talk as you so intelligently stated, then your comment was ignorant and immature, and indicitive of one that has many problems, and here I thought a sign of a real Man was to be able to keep his head and think things through, according to you I am wrong though.
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David, you're addicted to the cunt and it's pussy whipped wimps like you that made feminazism possible. In fact, pussy woosies like you are far more a danger than feminazis and it's you the men's movement should deal with in the first place.
Bert
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From now on, men's rights first.
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by Davidadelong on 10:27 AM April 11th, 2006 EST (#17)
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It has been over five years since I have had any realtions with a Woman other than casual conversation. In my three marriages I was never "whipped", although I know many Men that are. Because I do not espouse hate as you do I am whipped, or just more mature? You sound exactly like the Man hating womyn that beat the drums for further oppression of the Males with the help of the social scientists. I prefer to act out with a semblance of intelligence, if to only prove to myself that I am better than those Man hating womyn that you sound so much like Bert. Just chnage the genders, and you could have been a leader in the feminazi movement.........
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"In my three marriages I was never whipped"
I see, and after they kicked your woosy ass three times you became a MRA, that means, until the next bitch comes and lets you sniff at her cunt.
Holy crap, you really are one hell of a MRA.
Bert
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From now on, men's rights first.
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by Davidadelong on 07:25 PM April 11th, 2006 EST (#19)
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I don't know why I respond to you Bert, you espouse hate and violence against Women. It is natural for Men to want a Woman. I have been a MRA, as well as a Human Rights Activist since I was a kid. My life is and has been nothing but a battle. But I'm smarter than the social scientists that want to continue the gender wars so that they can manipulate the masses. Again, you must get paid very well to spew forth the vile that you post. What have you done to actually resist the tryanny that Men have been subjected to? Aren't you from merry old England, and don't you support the queen? I am done with you, as I would hope anyone with brains would be.
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by brotherskeeper on 07:30 PM April 10th, 2006 EST (#9)
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David,
Have appreciated your postings, but have to respectfully disagree here.
Your focus is on 'healing' and 'alienation'. I submit that this focus (at this time) is not only wrong, but dangerous; focusing on these issues is precisely how we got here. We need an unswerving focus on true justice -- restoring desperately needed Constitutional rights to men. These would include due process, equal parental rights, etc.
Emotion, masquerading as logic and compassion, has contributed greatly to the following abominations:
1. Roe v. Wade. (You may or may not be pro abortion, but at present you have NO say whatsoever, even within a marriage). Had there been a careful focus on true Constitutional rights for ALL involved in this case, we would, most likely be in a vastly different situation today. Had real due process been involved, the question of whether or not a rape had actually been committed might have been asked instead of rushing to judgement to, in part, assuage a supposedly terrible injustice. The effects of this ruling have been incredibly far reaching.
2. Men's advantages are solely due to discrimination. Instead of an emotionally based 'fairness', a true fairness based on merit and capability would be in place. Instead, we have the '75 cents myth', Title IX destroying a number of men's sports programs, 'Take our daughters to work day' (i.e. the War on Boys), etc. Because of the emotionally laden approaches to the above issues, any semblance of Constitutional rights, true free choice, etc. have gone out the window.
True healing and change of heart can come AFTER, and probably only after, true justice and fairly balanced freedom are in place.
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by Davidadelong on 07:59 PM April 10th, 2006 EST (#11)
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I happen to agree with the goals BK. All I was saying was that even if the attorney is a Woman, if she is truly helping Men gain their rights then she should be regarded as an ally. I know many Women that wouldn't listen to a "Man", but would a Woman. I guess if you really think about it I was championing a less emotional stance in our fight so that we do not retaliate against a helping hand just because it is Female. I happen to believe that qall of us have been played, not just us Men. I do feel a rather close relationship with Mens rights as I have been screwed most of my life because of a lack of rights. But I still don't believe that by doing what the Women did to us with the help of our government that we will truly win anything. I guess I would like to attack the real reason behind our current situation so that this can never happen again.
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by brotherskeeper on 08:24 PM April 10th, 2006 EST (#13)
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I think the crux of our difference is encapsulated in the following phrase:
"...so that we do not retaliate..."
I am not advocating retaliation (if you see this, please point it out). I AM advocating full civil rights for men.
If these 'helpers', the very same ones that advocated for the laws that put us here, want to help, they would acknowledge their own crime, hand back the rights taken, and step into the BACKGROUND in a support role instead of into the limelight. They don't need to be retaliated against, but it is only fair that their credibility be diminished, instead of re-anointing them as heroes. Otherwise, the canonization of feminists as morally superior will simply continue, and MRAs will be back where they started from.
The above is not sour grapes. If you look at the arguments in vogue in feminist circles today, they are contradicting themselves left and right (they're for the 'Best Interests of the Children' while demanding PBA?!!!, etc.) The efforts MRAs have gone to, and will go to, would be for nought if these 'helpers' were allowed to do the same thing.
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by brotherskeeper on 08:02 PM April 10th, 2006 EST (#12)
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One more thing I left off:
It will be up to MRAs to ensure that the solicitude shown in the article in question produces genuine FAIR results -- not just increased fees and self-aggrandizement for the solicitors (no pun intended).
In particular, the Steinem devotee is just now beginning to question some of her assumptions? After 40 years? I think some hard questions about facts and justice would be in order; the healing can come later.
I know of NCP groups that are receiving nothing in personal income from their efforts. Is the Steinem devotee? All pro bono? This would be the least she could do, I would think.
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by canaryguy
(nospam.canaryguy@nospam.stealthfool.com)
on 10:06 PM April 10th, 2006 EST (#14)
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I would suggest that in order for Males to truly heal, they cannot do it alone.
Sure we can! In fact, we must!
Women in our society generally are abusive to men. This abuse runs from mildly abusive to feminists. If we want to heal we have to do it apart from our abusers.
If we allow the propaganda to work and we become completely allienated from the Female of the species we will have lost. Why discourage a helping hand when you are drowning?
Women in general are NOT offering a helping hand. They have been working to destroy anything male for the last fourty years! Now when they've realizing the natural consequences of their actions, they want to help? What they say is help is usually the fine-tuning of abuse.
The healing of Males unfortunately will be done on an individual basis, sometimes with help from others, and sometimes without. People grow and change all the time, I would suggest that Woman can as well......
In Judaism I'm told that there are three R's of Forgiveness: Regret, Reform, and Repentance. Tell me how women have fulfilled one or all three of the three R's.
As far as I can tell, we're seeing a little Regret, less Reform, and ZERO Repentance.
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by amperro on 12:46 AM April 11th, 2006 EST (#15)
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Still no mention of prison time. We have to frame the argument in terms of the woman, not the child.
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oregon dad writes "