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For an example of the type of spin we can expect to see in response to this problem, take a gander at this essay in The Atlantic. Note how the writer, after opening with the subtitle "Maybe boys just weren't meant for the classroom," claims that "The women's movement has taught us many things, one of the more surprising being that boys are not performing in school as well as they might." The women's movement hasn't taught us any such thing. It's writer's like Glenn Sacks and Warren Farrell as well as Christina Hoff Sommers, who is definitely outside the mainstream women's movement, who have made us aware of this crisis.
The writer also states, "equal opportunity brought an unequal result." Get it? When boys and girls have equal opportunity, the boys fail.
He goes on to say, "Young men, with or without high school diplomas, earn more than young women, so they are more likely to see work as an alternative to school. Employment gives many men immediate monetary gratification along with relief from the drudgery of the classroom." Ah, yes. The alleged wage gap. The fact is: If young women worked as hard and as many hours at the same jobs as young men, with or without high school diplomas, the young women would earn at least as much as the young men. This business about jobs for young adults, who don't have high school degrees, is a smoke screen. Precious few of these kids are making much money. Many, if not most, are underemployed or unemployed.
Children are not responsible for this social disaster. The teachers and school administrators, who have turned schools into places that boys so strongly dislike, are responsible and should be held accountable.
Thomas
-- Creating hostile environments for feminazis since the 1970s.
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by Anonymous User on 01:45 AM February 19th, 2004 EST (#9)
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I don't think it is equal opportunity that results in boys falling behind girls, but an insistance on equal outcome. Apparently, it's not just enough to provide an opportunity, but schools must ensure that every student does as well as every other student.
Although, it doesn't seem as if many people care if it is the boys who are falling behind.
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by Anonymous User on 10:33 PM February 18th, 2004 EST (#4)
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In order for America to live FEMINISM, in it's current form must DIE!
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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"During interviews a couple of years ago when asked whether they liked school, the majority of little girls said yes, while most little boys answered no."
I don't doubt this is true. What I wonder is what were the responses to the same question in 1957? 1934? 1903? 1885?
Seems to me I've read Sinclair Lewis's unflattering accounts of boys schools in Ireland and later England in the early 1900's. He didn't seem to enjoy school much and seemed always to be being kicked out of one school and the next. But he DID enjoy learning and became a celebrated author.
Ditto Einstein and school ... he didn't much care for it and they didn't seem to like him much either. Ditto Edwin Lutyens, the famous English architect ... hated school and could never behave long enough to stay in one school without getting kicked out.
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Arrggghhh! I meant C.S. Lewis, not Sinclair Lewis in my example.
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Seems to me I've read (C.S) Lewis's unflattering accounts of boys schools in Ireland and later England in the early 1900's.
Well, I know I've read those accounts. Somes schools he liked, some he didn't. He called his first school, Oldie's, a concentration camp. However, as he described a later school:
Chartres, a tall, white building further up the hill than the College, was a smallish school with less than than 20 boarders; but it was quite unlike Oldies. Here indeed my education really began. The Headmaster, whom we called Tubbs, was a clever and patient teacher; under him I rapidly found my feet in Latin and English and even began to be looked on as a promising candidate for a scholarship at the College. The food was good (though of course we grumbled at it) and we were well cared for. On the whole I got on well with my school fellows, though we had our full share of those lifelong friendships and irreconcilable factions and deadly quarrels and final settlements and glorious revolutions which made up so much of the life of a small boy, and in which I came out sometimes at the bottom and sometimes at the top.
-Surprised by Joy, p. 58
He didn't seem to enjoy school much and seemed always to be being kicked out of one school and the next.
No. He wasn't kicked out of any school. His father took a strong interest in his education and moved him around.
But he DID enjoy learning and became a celebrated author.
A few little details she left out.
From October 1924 until May 1925, Lewis served as philosophy tutor at University College during E.F. Carritt's absence on study leave for the year in America. On May 20, Lewis was elected a Fellow of Magdalen College, Oxford, where he served as tutor in English Language and Literature for 29 years until leaving for Magdalene College, Cambridge, in 1954, where he accepted the Chair of Medieval and Renaissance Literature at Cambridge and remained until shortly before his death in 1963.
Odd choices for a boy who "didn't seem to enjoy school much."
Larry
ADULT: What you are once you've run out of excuses.
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Ah yes a couple of samples out of . . .well billions.
Lest it be true that many men "don't like school".
However men have historically been able to use there logical thinking to achieve the greatest of pleasures you now take for granted.
Without school. . .just instinct. . .just male.
Take that away (as we have done) and. . . . . . .
I live in fear for my son. . .soon I feel I'll live in fear for my daughters.
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And Loraine: Please read and diagnose.
For all the greatness then men have (well recognized and documented). For all the greatness that women have (recognized). Why would you want to slow/prevent/trivialize any of that?
We should recognize and promote the best traits of women and men to the max potential in an effort to achieve the best results. . .no?
We should be promoting the utmost potential in our men rather then demonizing/criminalizing, etc.
Certainly they should be who our women seek . . .no?
We should be promoting the utmost potential in our women . . .as we do. Certainly they should be who our men seek . . .no?
I live in fear for my son. . .soon I feel I'll live in fear for my daughters too.
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Two points:
1). I am a fan of biographies. Virtually every biography of I've read of smart accomplished people includes horror stories of their school years and how school basically held them back ... true of authors, physcists, architects, etc. Also, accounts of schools in other countries and other time periods indicate that a lot of kids don't like school, and/or have a hard time assimilating to school culture. This theme is fairly timeless.
2). To state that something changes over time (eg it has gotten better ... or worse) for a segment of the population, you have to have historical data showing the changes. That's why I asked ... Compared to?
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Oh Lorianne ... like a puppy that begs attention, shits the rug, and then lets her nose be rubbed in her own poop to make her feel noticed.
Not a problem.
Once again you have used your "professor's" mind training take over. You change the theme, latch onto the minutia, and want us to follow along. Sorry Lorianne ... this isn't a "Women's studies" class. We males have this odd concept of staying on track and being logical.
The POINT Lorianne (bad puppy! bad bad girl - rubs nose in poop while puppies tail wiggles from attention) is that boys are not doing well in school. The POINT Lorianne (she's kinda Pavlonian in her want of newspaper to snout treatment - no?) is that boys used to do well. The POINT Lorianne (poop on nose, doggy wants to go back to her poop and smell it some more) is that boys are being given a hostile environment of duplicitous standards in school where their very gender traits are being attacked. The POINT Lorianne (man has to, once again, clean up the mess bad doggy tried to make) is that our schools are full of feminized women's studies harpies who are ED majors (ya know, women and women's studies majors dominated) and who view boys with suspicion, maleness as a curable social disease, and where boys are being made to feel unwanted.
Lorianne ... did you get the point yet, or should I rub your nose in your own poop some more?
Steven
Guerilla Gender Warfare is just Hate Speech in polite text
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LMAO!!!
Steven, you are a riot!
The Biscuit Queen
Dave K - A Radical Moderate
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Lorainne, I agree that this particular statement was not a very good one argumentively, however it brings up a good point. Schools have gone out of their way to assure that girls enjoy school, feel good about themselves, and succeed. Nothing has been done likewise for boys. The schools are perfectly capable of creating curriculums which engage boys, they choose not to. I have two boys who each have had classes they highly enjoyed due to creative and interesting teachers, mostly with male teachers, a couple of excellent female teachers. Unfortunately, they have also had classes which they did not fare so well in due to poor teachers and biases in the classroom, all of whom were female teachers. I have had no recourse in correcting this. Tenure makes it impossible to ask for a reveiw of the teachers, probation, or removal.
The schools are completely uninterested in making changes for male children. In order to make change, you must go higher up in the administration, and that is where things stall out. Since the school board is voted in, the policies reflect those of American society, which holds girls more dear than boys.
Only when it becomes important to society that boys succeed wil changes come to the schools.
The Biscuit Queen
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Schools have gone out of their way to assure that girls enjoy school, feel good about themselves, and succeed. Nothing has been done likewise for boys.
Schools also go out of their way to be hostile to males. The articles by Glenn Sacks (see my posts above) provide a number of examples. It is true that schools have long been vicious to males. Almost all the males my age, who went to Catholic Schools, suffered numerous, brutal beatings at the hands of nuns, who never touched any of the girls. It should be noted, though, that by their own stories few if any of these men ever saw a priest hit anyone. At that time, however, boys at least received some respect if they were able to endure the brutalization. Today, boys are taught that their masculinity must be deconstructed and that males are the source of the world's evils. This is a much more insidious attack on boys. It doesn't just hurt them, it teaches them that they are fundamentally bad. In addition, when I was young, the boys were generally healthy, and had youthful vitality that helped them deal with the brutality. Today, the teachers and administrators drug many of the boys and thereby smother and crush their ability to resist.
For an excellent overview of the current, insidious, anti-male characteristics of today's academy, readers should see Christina Hoff Sommers' book, "The War Against Boys," or at least read her summary here.
Thomas
-- Creating hostile environments for feminazis since the 1970s.
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by Anonymous User on 03:33 PM February 19th, 2004 EST (#13)
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At a powwow recently I saw a man wearing a shirt that had a message on it that I think is realivant to this and many other men's struggles.
The shirt read ;"I'D RATHER FIGHT ON MY FEET THAN DIE ON MY KNEES...!"
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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Personally I'd MUCH rather have the Nuns of my youth teaching my sons compared to the flimsy excuses for educators we have today.
Boys need discipline, and the credible threat of a good paddleing worked to keep us well in line when I was growing up. These days the kids are running roughshod over eduactors who have zero crediblity. Girls IMHO perform better in such a destructive environment because they're less likely to test the limits. Girls appear to be interested in conforming more than boys, who seem programmed to push limits and if no limits are found they simply do whatever they want.
That's not an environment conducive to training young minds... soo much potential is being destroyed by our educational system and it's ineffectual teachers, administration, and propensity for taking the easy path. Pass students even if they're not performing, drug students that are a problem, eliminate any challenges that serve to draw the best out of students.
It's a pathetic f#!$king disgrace.
Dave K - A Radical Moderate
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For the sake of readers who are unfamiliar with Lorianne's feminist tricks, I will state that I try to spend as little time as possible discussing matters with her. She tries to come off as reasonable at first, but her feminism quickly becomes apparent.
I don't care to spend time responding to an endless stream of distortions, distractions, and outright falsifications.
I am happy, however, to discuss these critical matters with someone like Dave, though we don't necessarily agree on everthing. On that note...
Boys need discipline, and the credible threat of a good paddleing worked to keep us well in line when I was growing up.
I don't doubt your personal experience, Dave, by mine was quite different as were the experiences of just about every other man, with whom I've spoken, who, as a child, was subjected to the brutalization and violence by the nuns. (I will say, though, that I, too, would rather undergo the beatings than the emotional, spiritual, and psychological brutalization to which boys are subjected today by feminist teachers and school administrators.) The beatings that we suffered had little or nothing to do with discipline. They were often seemingly random attacks. At other times, they were based on whatever excuse turned on the child abuser. We were often beaten for getting the wrong answer to a question, though I was most often beaten for my penmanship. I say "seemingly random attacks" above, though, because a likely, underlying cause didn't become clear to me for years. When I was in fourth grade, I told my mother that the nuns would beat us a lot for several days, but then, for the most part, they'd be much less violent for three or four weeks. Then the beatings would flare up again for several days as it all repeated. My mother just smiled, shook her head, and said, "They get it out of their system."
Not too long ago I talked with a friend of mine who was frequently beaten and on one occasion violently sexually assaulted by a nun. (No. He hasn't reported it, and I doubt that he will.) I asked him if he ever saw a nun hit a girl. For several seconds, he fell silent with a shocked and bewildered look. Then he shook his head and said, "No." Despite the fact that he, and many others like him, had seen frequent violent attacks by the nuns on boys, but never on girls, he had never realized that these were only attacks on males. Then I asked him if they would beat the boys with greater frequency and violence for several days and then back off for three or four weeks. He said, "Yes." Then the probable reason struck him. He'd never made the connection to the nuns' menstrual cycle. (Yeah! The truth is politically incorrect.)
Girls IMHO perform better in such a destructive environment because they're less likely to test the limits.
And the ones who are most likely to test the limits, the ones who would most likely be the future great leaders, are the ones most likely to be drugged, not just with Ritalin but with a number of other psychoactive drugs as well.
Reported side effects of Ritalin include:
- Decreased blood flow to the brain, an effect recently shown to be caused by cocaine where it is associated with impaired thinking ability and memory loss.
- Disruption of growth hormone, leading to suppression of growth in the body and brain of the child.
- Permanent neurological tics, including Tourette's syndrome.
- Addiction and abuse, including withdrawal reactions on a daily basis.
- Psychosis (mania), depression, insomnia, agitation and social withdrawal.
- Possible shrinkage (atrophy) or other permanent physical abnormalities in the brain.
- Worsening of the very symptoms the drug is supposed to improve, including hyperactivity and inattention.
- Decreased ability to learn.
This is what is being done by feminized schools to children, mostly boys, many of whom, if not for such violations, would push the limits and prove to be some of the greatest scientists, artists, and other world leaders.
It's no surprise that the trend is for boys to like school far less as the years go by. If the schools had set out to systematically destroy boys, could they have proven more successful than they already are?
Could it be that the feminized schools have set out to systematically destroy boys?
Thomas
-- Creating hostile environments for feminazis since the 1970s.
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Wow... I'm sorry to hear about your experience. I went through 14 years of Catholic education (12 grade/high and two years of college) at three different schools and never experienced (or witnessed) anything like that. Sure the nuns were tough and willing to twist an ear to get attention, but rarely did such things need to be done once it was established that we'd pay the consequences if we goofed off. In my grade school the paddle was reserved for the principal, and it was also very rarely needed (I did get it once myself :), can't recall why).
The funny thing is, even with your negative experience you'll readily admit that boys were better off back then as opposed to today, where teaches might not be smacking our kids, bit there also not teaching them... and I can't begin to even express how abusive I consider putting boys on ritalin to keep them quiet and pliable is, a smack is NOTHING compared to that.
Dave K - A Radical Moderate
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Yup... grade school in the mid 70's to early 80's.
Dave K - A Radical Moderate
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We put our son in Catholic school for a few years from 96-98, and they were completely feminized. They did not overtly train against boys, but there was no discipline, no consequences, and the way they ran the class was to let the girls surround the offending boys and 'peer' teach them. My son was severely unhappy and even depressed while going there. The catholic schools are no better anymore.
The Biscuit Queen, who is too lazy to log out of Dave's account;-)
Dave K - A Radical Moderate
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Just wanted to set the record straight on that. We should not give parents a pass on how they are complicit in our "pill" culture. Parents are ultimately responsible for their child's welfare, not the government run schools. Let's not trivialize the role of PARENT any more than it already is in our culture.
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I agree with Thomas... this is a simplistic response to a serious issue.
It was recommended to us that our first son take ritalin... by the SCHOOL. They had sociologists and therapists who earnestly felt this was the right thing to do. At that point in time we were young parents, we TRUSTED those people and we were unsure of ourselves (as most parents will be). Luckily in our case we are also very anti-drug so we did the due diligance and found that our trust was misplaced.
I'm sure there are many parents who are simply suckered in and trust those people. Shame on them for trusting someone with years of education who's paid to help you insure your child gets a good education. They're being suckered in by an establishment they're SUPPOSED to be able to trust. Parents don't have all the answers, and our school systems spend millions paying the salaries of people who ARE supposed to provide constructive advice in these difficult areas.
Sure, parents should accept responsibility... responsibility for trusting people to do the job WE'RE paying them to do. We'd be better off just mailing the checks to their homes and tell them to stay the hell away from our kids.
Dave K - A Radical Moderate
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Dang Lorianne ... you actually thought we would NOT have an argument for that poop you dropped on the floor? What's wrong Lorianne? Did your "Professor" (lol) at "Blame anyone but the feminazis 101" not teach you that men are better at picking apart bullshit like what you said? Must be due to the fact that in their classes there is no dissenting voice to interject logical responses ... ?
Lorianne ... the SCHOOLS are the ones recommending the drugs. Else, there would be parents looking at TONS of different drugs. But it's RITALIN that is the common answer. I know this from personal experience. The SCHOOL recommended to my parents that I take Ritalin at the age of 14. I was a GREAT student. I missed a year of high school and STILL graduated a year early. I took my SATs when I was in the BEGINNING of my sophomore year (I was only 14) and got 1180. What did you get Lorianne ... and pray tell, what year of HS did you take them ... did YOU graduate early? (Bad bad puppy ... )
And LORIANNE, I got SPEED burnout from it. My metabolism was high (gee, kinda like being a normal teenager) and I had hypoglycemia (for which they NEVER did ANY testing, but which I TOLD them about - for which it is often contra-prescribed). It put me into an agitated, hyped up state where I was constantly frenetic. Look up the word Lorianne ... I went to college just as the Feminazis took a lot of power, but you could still get a good education - except in "women's studies" - no peer review there.
The SCHOOLS put the boys into a zombie state instead of adjusting the teaching curriculum to match the needs of the student. Instead of trying to match the lesson plans to the students the schools are catering to teaching styles that match teen girl personality traits, and drugs those not like that (BOYS LORIANNE).
Baaaad puppy ... I keep having to rub your nose in your poop ... you must like it.
Steven
Guerilla Gender Warfare is just Hate Speech in polite text
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Don't expect gov't to care much about closing the education gap for boys. Historically, societies with educated male populations are ones unlikely to suffer tyrrany for long. Educated females will suffer it, esp. if it serves their purposes, and it usually does. Educated men are usually the leaders of revolts and revolutions (think Adams or Jefferson would have been allowed to get Harvard/William and Mary-level educations had they been raised in Britain? No way! They were of the "wrong stock" for that). The fomula is simple, really... keep males un- or under-educated and you can install a tyrrany easily and undercut the leadership base for the rebellion against it. Best defense vs. an enemy is to keep one from forming. This is the drill.
This strategy worked for over 400 years during the middle ages, with only a few men being able or allowed to get anything like a decent education (for the time), and these almost only men from the "right classes". It wasn't until a middle class began to arise, vs. the wishes of the monarchs of the time, and more males got educated that the leadership arose to challenge monarchy in the revolutions of the 18th and 19th centuries. These are not lessons lost on the handful of male (and female) leaders at the top of our governments and such "institutions" as NOW and AAUW.
In short, don't expect gov't to care about educating boys. They must in any case be forced to start acting like they care. Like other issues involving men's rights, it will be an uphill battle requiring constant pressure and vigilence, because it is contrary to the gov't's perceived interests for them to comply with this goal.
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by Anonymous User on 03:55 PM February 19th, 2004 EST (#14)
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The above point is easily seen in action, concerning my people.
Indians have been generaly denied decent educations, from get go. The government makes certain that we are kept in economic, social, political and educational chaos.
This is, of course done to keep us "injuns" under controll. The more disenfranchised a people are the easier it is to controll them.
The EXACT SAME thing is now being done to males. And anyone who thinks that this is just a coincidental accident is fooling themselves.
History is a GREAT teacher. It pays to pay attention in class, I'd say.
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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"It's a frightening statistic," said Richard Kent, assistant professor of education at UM. "It doesn't bode well for society in general. Boys are abandoning ship."
The frightening statistic is about how many women vs. men are attending college, and will be in the future. Yes, that's scary, it's being really odd and rare that I have a class that is even half males.
Anyway, point I wanted to make was that it isn't that boys are abandoning ship, but that the education system has been watching them drown for years! Those statistics about boys falling behind in english are not new, but nobody cared because, gasp, girls might be falling behind somewhere! quick! revive ophelia! grrg. And then we pretend to blame boys, say that they are abandoning education, rather than acknowledging that something is wrong with how they are taught.
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