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by Anonymous User on Wednesday May 30, @10:07PM EST (#1)
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This web site is hysterical. Men are child support slaves? Men are more stressed out? Puhleeezeeee...
I think the expression "you made the bed, now you lie in it" seems most appropriate here. The reason men are so screwed up is because YOU did this to yourself. YOU made the world so hierarchical and ego-based that it stresses you out not to be an "alpha male". Why aren't women as stressed about losing a job? Because women keep things in perspective, and live more holistically. We're more concerned about taking care of ourselves, and each other (yes, that includes the men in our lives) than using people as steps on a ladder to climb.
I was told this was supposed to be some "impressive" site about the men's movement. I guess if this is the "alpha" representation of your movement, you guys have no hope.
And please - quit your whining. It doesn't "impress the ladies." Spreading lies about domestic violence (oh, look - that 6'2" man was hurt by his 5'4" wife!) is just unethical - not to mention completely opposed to everyone's (correct) intuitions.
Have fun guys!
Kali
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Kali, you are one seriously misled lady. And you really shouldn't judge an entire Web site (which has been posting stories for a little more than a year now) based on a few stories you see at the top of the home page. This site isn't about whining (that's a feminist thing). It's open discussion about men's issues. And it's not just men. Ask Trudy Schuett (a regular contributor here) about domestic violence against men.
Try not to be so narrow minded in the future.
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p.s. The "it's your own fault" argument was once used against female victims of rape and other sexual assaults. Hmmm. I believe it's just as wrong to use it against us.
Don't be so intolerant.
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First, you mock the idea that men are stressed, and next you admit it, but you say it's OK, because it's their own fault. Which is it?
So only men use people as steps on a ladder, do they? Well, the ladder metaphor is interesting, isn't it? And ironic. And oh so perfect! After all, when people think of social climbers, which gender are thinking of? Not men. But it is on the backs of men, isn't it, that allowed many of these women, these non-"hirarchical" women, their status.
And what is this about only men being ego based.If women are not ego-based, why are so many men afraid to criticize you? Because they think you are always right? I've got news for you, even if a man KNEW a woman was wrong, he'd think twice, at least, before telling her so, in the gentlest way he could think of, I might add.
Women can AFFORD to be holistic, to take better care of themselves, women can afford to "keep things in perspective," because of the sacrifices men make, in order to make that possible.
The fact is, BOTH genders make sacrifices, don't they? I could find website after website, women's magazine after women's magazine, to discuss women's sacrifices and abuses they suffer at the hands of men, but let there be just a few websites that show that men don't always have it so easy in this world [ a world which, in truth BOTH sexes "made"] either, and there will always be at least one women [still far too many,I might add] to tell us to quit whining. It doesn't impress the ladies, you say.
Maybe it isn't about "impressing the ladies," did you think of that? Maybe it's about correcting an imbalnce that seems all too real for many of us.
I have a belief that when a person tries to diminish the reality of anothe's suffering, they are diminishing themselves.You might want to consider that possibility the next time you post to this or any other website.
Men HAVE listened to the real suffering of women in this world, but that doesn't mean that you have been the only ones who suffer.
fritzc77
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Absolutely! Women can afford to worry about their "life quality" and "life style". They can afford to sit around worrying about whether they should go for yoga, aromatherapy, colour therapy, or a combination. They can afford to stress themselves about whether the living room should be painted in Summer Peach or Dreamy Tangerine. They can afford all of this because men spend their time sweating and working to make the world a safe and comfortable place for women.
Quit our whining indeed: "Quit your whining and get back to work!"
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ain't it amusing to see the logic here - women made the good parts of society and men made the bad parts - ergo men should suffer while women watch Oprah.
Behold the face of the enemy.
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by Anonymous User on Thursday May 31, @06:00AM EST (#6)
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YOU made the world
Cheers, nice to know society is a man's creation :)
Adam H
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Well, it was bound to happen at some point - we have our first blatant troll poster on the site. A "troll" is someone who posts messages just to get everyone else riled up, causing people to expend a lot of energy to respond. The best way of dealing with these people is to ignore them. If you've ever been to the newsgroup soc.men, the group has more troll posts and responses than relevant messages, and I think it's obvious that this is a concerted attack on the group which has succeeded in making soc.men a mostly useless resource because of the garbage you have to wade through to find any good information.
If trolling becomes a problem here, I can take steps to stop it - after all, I know the IP address of Kali and I can ban it if she makes a habit of this (hint, hint). In the meantime, I recommend just ignoring these people. They're generally not worth our time.
Scott
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Thank you, Scott; I have to admit I am somewhat unfamiliar with this phenomenon, but now that I have fallen into the clutches of a "troll" and lived to tell about it, I will think twice before responding to an obviously inflammatory post as Kali's. The last thing we need is to have the same thing happen on this site that happened on that newsgroup; if this truly is a trick of the gender feminists, I'd say it's downright insidious!
In the meantime, Scott, keep up the great work on the site!
fritzc77
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by Anonymous User on Thursday May 31, @06:23AM EST (#8)
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Kali desperately needs a course in human relations and should look into a mirror to see the face of prejudice. She has clearly given into the mother-of-all-misconceptions, that the physical size of a human determines that person's inclinations towards abuse and violence.
Her first stop should be a local bookstore or Amazon.com, where she can buy her first "consciousness-raising" book, "When She Was Bad - How and Why Women Get Away with Murder", to help her dispel the notion that physical size determines a person's willingness to hurt others. *Feminist* author Patricia Pearson summarized Kali's prejudice perfectly: "The idea that domestic violence refers exclusively to wife abuse or to violence against women is so deeply ingrained in Western consciousness that it is impossible to grapple with [stories of male victims of DV] without first unraveling some potent conventional wisdom. ... At the heart of the matter lies human will. Which partner - by dint of temperament, personality, life history - has the will to harm the other? By now it should be clear that such a will is not the exclusive province of men."
It's simple: to assume that Kali's 6'2" man is more inclined to abuse than her 5'4" wife is nothing more than prejudice and bigotry. If Kali thinks women aren't capable of violence, she should think again, keeping in mind "Sugar and Spicer's" like Tanya Harding; Brynn Hartman (you remember her, don't you? Phil Harman's killer.); Jean Harris (Dr. Herman Tarnower's killer); Jane Toppan (killed almost 100 people in Connecticut); and of course, the ever-so-infamous Susan Smith (who, by the way, killed two diminutive males, both under 3' tall).
Kali might then want to move up to reading "Bad Girls Do It! an Encyclopedia of Female Murderers", to *really* get a grip on her prejudice! There, she will read "182 case histories of female multiple murderers: about "angels of death" (nurses who kill), "black widows," lethal landladies, and murderous moms. Many of them are little known, such as Rachal David, a religious fanatic who tossed her seven children off an 11th-story hotel balcony in Salt Lake City in 1978, while a screaming crowd watched from below.
If Kali still then thinks that female-initiated domestic violence is against "everyone's (correct) intuitions", then she must also think that -- in keeping with everyone's (correct) intuitions -- that the world is, indeed, flat.
Kali, here it is: you and your female chauvinism and gender conceit stink. Time to take a good hard look at YOUR Dark Side.
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I don't know about anyone else, but I'm not here to impress the ladies, least of all trolls.
Quit our whining? Oh, sure... when the "women's movement" quits its whining, and quits spreading lies about domestic violence.
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by Anonymous User on Thursday May 31, @11:52PM EST (#13)
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It is men's fault, to an extent. But it's also important to remember that the men are just adapting to women's expectations for a partner just as women try to stay thin and look pretty in order to attract men.
My question for Kali--given two men, both with the exact same personality and intellectual capacity, would you choose to date the rich doctor over the working class garbage man?
That's a no-brainer. Women want men who can financially support them so that they have less pressure to earn income. This allows women to have "careers by choice"--to work part time and/or to work lower paying, lower stress, more enjoyable jobs. Perhaps if more women were willing to financially support their husbands and if men actually perceived--based on women's actions and what women truly find attractive in men--that personality was more important and that career success was less important, perhaps more men would choose lower stress jobs.
My question for women who don't understand why males feel that earning money is so important is: Did you ever consider marrying a garbageman with a nice personality?
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Unfortunately, I think that women who hold this view are in the majority. Although a few feminists were and are truly egalitarian, most feminists (both men and women) see the world through a power-based, winner/loser lens. They believe that if men get any sympathy then this is a loss for women.
I believe that if Kali were ever to see a woman actively beating up her husband, with him losing the fight, she would turn her back because to admit that he was being battered would, in her mind, somehow diminish battered women. Sadly, I think that most women would have the same reaction.
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To the person known as Kali,
What kind of idiot do you think you are coming into the backyard of the men's movement and laying your poop about how men have stumped-their-mudhole-now-lie-in-it about the issues that we men [and women] have to deal with every single day!
I'll bet that you don't even know this fact: Men do get stressed out when they get rejected by the women that they want to meet! Another fact: As for the domestic violence limb, Men and women equally abuse each other at the same rates and men do feel some stress when they are abused just like women do! You have some nerve...
Lastly, if you are so so despising of men [and the women that are fighting for them] then you yourself would make an excellent new cronie of the National Organization for Women in Patricia Ireland's first rate army bitching about the whole oh-mi-god-what-are-we-gonna-do-about-the-stupid-violence-against-women-powertrip?
How dare you!!!
Eman
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