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by tudball on 04:22 PM January 20th, 2006 EST (#1)
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I would say it's just as F'ed up in this country. It all boils down to whether or not you have a dick. If you have one, you possibly get drafted in the event of war. And executed for cowardice if you don't fight. If you don't have a dick, you don't even have to register for the draft. How nice to be able to skate free of any accountability or resonsibility simply because you have a hole between your legs.
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It's incorrect to say that "most Australians are appalled" by the government's fair and reasonable treatment of illegal immigrants claiming refugee status.
In fact, most Australians fully support the scheme, which respects human rights while protecting our country.
However, it is true that the detention practices discriminate against men, and that this is rarely pointed out. That at least deserves condemnation.
--
Evil Pundit of Doom!
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by bulldogo.1 on 08:02 PM January 20th, 2006 EST (#3)
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I don't know what is 'fair and reasonable' about placing people in jail on the premise that they may not be telling the truth about their circumstances. Evilpundit, you must see the similarities in this to the treatment of men accused of domestic violence. They must prove their innocence, while the female accuser is believed without question.
As for protecting our country, from what? The same politicians who keep women in fear of evil men for the purpose of staying in power through campaigns like Violence Against Women - Australia Says No, are the same ones that keep all Australians in fear about terrorists and overwhelming numbers of boat people etc.
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It is fair that people who choose to enter the country unlawfully are held in detention until their motives are ascertained.
Most of the people in long-term detention have had their claims for asylum rejected, yet refuse to leave. They can get out any time by going back to their country of origin, but refuse to do so.
In any case, this is a side issue to the sexism of the policy. But I don't think posts on men's issues should be used as a way to push an unrelated political issue -- that's the way to splitting the movement.
I think the detention of illegal immigrants in general is a red herring, and should have been left out of your original post. Accordingly, I won't discuss it any further on this thread.
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Evil Pundit of Doom!
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by bulldogo.1 on 10:29 PM January 22nd, 2006 EST (#8)
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First let me say that I did not make my post on the Mensactivism site for any ulterior motives. My motive was solely to highlight the gender discrimination happening, the comment on the whole situation as being unjust was made to draw attention to the fact that so-called liberal minded people ignore discrimination against men. However, I stand by the comment that most Australians are against mandatory detention of refugees and asylum seekers because most of the Australians I have spoken to on the subject have indicated that way. But maybe I am just talking to the wrong people.
I disagree that it is 'fair and reasonable' to hold these people in detention centres (jails) until their stories can be checked. I do, however, agree that they should not be released into the community until this has happened. But why not accomodate them in more humane conditions. If it is then discovered they are not in fact bone fide refugees or asylum seekers, I have no problem with the Australian government holding them in detention centres until they are returned to their home country, as soon as possible.
Which brings me to my next concern with your comments. It is simply not true that 'Most of the people in long-term detention have had their claims for asylum rejected, yet refuse to leave. They can get out any time by going back to their country of origin, but refuse to do so'. First of all, if the Australian government can prove that these people are not who they say they are then it has every right to deport them immediately, without braking any international agreements on the treatment of refugees and asylum seekers. I believe that the Howard government would not hesitate in taking this option if it was available. Secondly, it seems hard to believe that people would take to open seas in flimsy boats, with their children, if they didn't have a good reason. And I don't believe the argument that they are simply escaping from poverty and hardship to a better country, because if they were that poor where do they get the resources to travel in the first place?
As to your suggestion that it is inapropriate to talk about any other topics on a men's site because it will split the movement, this is utter rubbish. One of the main things that will help the men's movement ultimately triumph is the fact that it is a diverse, open and honest movement. Men from all walks of life, with many different political points of view and social outlooks make up this movement. It would be sad to see it become like the feminist machine that is driven by an ultra-radical minority that falsely claims to speak for all women. For example, I have looked at the material on your website and find that while I agree with some of your arguments, I also disagree with others. But there is definately one thing I would back you up with and that is your basic right to air your views, whatever they may be. As long as men's rights activists stick to this tenet and play the ball and not the man (something that is inherent in most men due to their socialisation through sport, mateship and fatherhood) the mens movement will go from strength to strength.
Bulldogo.1
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by n.j. on 10:12 PM January 20th, 2006 EST (#4)
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Could one of the Australians here write to the appropriate officials and ask for the reason of this discriminatory practice?
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by RandomMan on 01:17 AM January 21st, 2006 EST (#5)
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Reasons? Haven't you heard? Only men commit crimes and harm society! Women are good, men are bad! Women are made of sugar and spice and everything nice! They should be put on a pedestal! Only women know how to care for children! Only men cause domestic violence! They're entitled to "special" treatment because they're oppressed by the patriarchy! Th...th....(vomiting noises)...
Sorry. Even typing that horseshit sarcastically, it still made me throw up. While I agree with your suggestion completely, n.j., surely you can't expect that an androphobic government would provide an honest response. Although it might be worth posting the responses someone receives back just to watch the doublethink chase itself up its own ass. If anyone does write the appropriate minister, please remember to share replies!
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by bulldogo.1 on 07:49 PM January 21st, 2006 EST (#6)
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I will be writing to the minister in charge of this on Monday and asking her (yes, it's a woman and I don't know how she made it to such a high position in a patriarchal country like Australia,) why male asylum seekers are treated different than female ones. I will post her reply on this page, but don't hold your breath because from previous experience it takes at least three weeks to get a reply (if you get one at all) when asking about men's issues. The Australian Office for Women, the Minister Assisting the Prime Minister for Women's Issues and others have told me, in no uncertain terms, that they will not be replying to my questions again.
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by bulldogo.1 on 12:32 AM January 26th, 2006 EST (#10)
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I was, of course, trying to be sarcastic. I don't believe in the concept of patriarchy, but governments, social agencies and social conscioussness do.
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