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The Pinky Defense?
posted by Thomas on 06:36 PM December 2nd, 2004
News We've definitely made progress, when the sexual molestation of a child by a woman is called rape, as is the sexual molestation of a child by a man. It will be interesting, though, to watch the progress of this case. Will defense attorneys succeed in having Debra LaFave acquitted on the basis of insanity partly because of her cutesy talk involving a "pinky promise?"

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This isn't a defense (Score:1)
by LSBeene on 07:04 PM December 2nd, 2004 EST (#1)
(User #1387 Info)
This isn't a defense. I can only speculate but I imagine a person seducing/raping a child would use the child's terminology to "reach" the child.

Like this quote from the article:

Toward the end, LaFave tells the student, "I don't want you lying to your mom" and then asks him to make a "pinky promise." LaFave repeats her request and the boy agrees and after being asked, says, "Pinky promise."

Mike Sinacor, the prosecutor in the case, told FOX News that the calls — said to be made by the boy at the request of authorities probing the allegations — could be useful in determining LaFave's state of mind. LaFave is expected to use the insanity defense when the case goes to trial in April.

[emphasis/bold writing are mine]

This is not a "defense" at all. It clearly shows she used a child's thinking, something akin to:
"I double dog dare you"
or
"Cross my heart, hope to die, stick a needle in my eye, I double secret swear"

This, to me, clearly shows her CLEAR understanding of getting into the boys head and manipulation.

And of course the following line from the article:
Attorney John Fitzgibbons said she had some "profound emotional issues that are not her fault."


Ummm, sorry John, but does very little to absolve her of her actions of seeking out, seducing/raping, and manipulating a **14** year old boy.

Also, while the article DOES use the word rape (about freaking time) there are no words from the local Molestation Survivors group.

Steven
Guerilla Gender Warfare is just Hate Speech in polite text
Re:This isn't a defense (Score:2)
by Thomas on 07:29 PM December 2nd, 2004 EST (#2)
(User #280 Info)
I can only speculate but I imagine a person seducing/raping a child would use the child's terminology to "reach" the child.

That's how it struck me. I particularly noted: "LaFave, speaking in a childish voice, asks the boy, 'Are you OK?'"

Speaking in a childish voice... Hmmm. Was she just trying to put him at his ease, so she could further manipulate him? I don't know, but it smells fishy.

I do, however, wish they'd referred to the boy as "the alleged victim" rather than as a "the victim." At least the media has started using the term "rape" in cases of proven or alleged sexual assaults by females against males.

Thomas
-- Creating hostile environments for feminazis since the 1970s.

Re:This isn't a defense... or maybe it is! (Score:0)
by Anonymous User on 09:53 PM December 2nd, 2004 EST (#4)
LaFave's acts of apparent manipulation of the boy do not go to the heart of an insanity defense, because the accused's acts are not at the core of that legal argument.

Doesn't matter whether she raped him or set him on fire ... it's her "state of mind" that matters when the insanity defense is used, and especially the presence of mental illness.

Found this excerpt in a recent issue of Psychiatric Times --

"Currently, the requirements for insanity vary by state. The typical standards require that a person be unable to differentiate between right and wrong at the time of the crime. The inability to appreciate the wrongfulness of conduct must be the direct result of a mental disease or defect. Such defects typically include psychotic disorders, mood disorders and organic conditions such as mental retardation. Virtually no state allows sociopathy to be grounds for an insanity defense, and voluntary intoxication cannot by itself end culpability."

"... Public perceptions are that the insanity defense occurs far more commonly than records indicate. In fact, the insanity defense is used in less than 1% of criminal proceedings and is successful in approximately one-quarter of those cases. Furthermore, defendants who are found insane spend as much, or more, time in state custody than their criminally convicted counterparts. The media may foster the notion that criminals get away with feigning mental defect, only to be released and recidivate. However, the insanity plea is actually based on a long-standing legal tradition and is rarely successfully completed. In fact, approximately 70% of insanity acquittals result from agreements between opposing attorneys, in which the prosecution agrees that society would be better served by placing the defendant in treatment, rather than in prison (Blum, 1992; Bogenberger et al., 1987; Cirincione, 1996; Rogers et al., 1984; Smith and Hall, 1982).

Outside of assisting in sentencing, there are two places for mental disease in the legal system. The first is a defendant's ability to understand the trial process. People who do not understand the nature of the charges or the functioning of the legal system are considered unfit for trial. More germane to this article, IF MENTAL ILLNESS HAD A DIRECT EFFECT ON A GIVEN CRIMINAL ACT, AN INDIVIDUAL CAN BE FOUND LEGALLY INSANE."

Full article at --http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/p020452.html


Re:This isn't a defense... or maybe it is! (Score:2)
by Thomas on 11:31 PM December 2nd, 2004 EST (#5)
(User #280 Info)
LaFave's acts of apparent manipulation of the boy do not go to the heart of an insanity defense

Actually, they do. If you get a handle, I might explain to you why that is. Otherwise, I won't bother discussing the matter with you. It's far too often impossible to carry on a reasonable discussion with someone who posts as an anonymous user.

Thomas
-- Creating hostile environments for feminazis since the 1970s.

Re:This isn't a defense (Score:1)
by thea on 06:27 AM December 3rd, 2004 EST (#6)
(User #1862 Info)
Insanity defense? She isn't insane. Maybe a 'dumb raping bimbo defense' would be better, that way the jury will see her for who and what she really is.......a raping paedophile who used her authority to manipulate an under age, vulnerable, and impressionable boy. And when he asked her if they should start using condoms she said during the tapes "Oh you're being weird." So I take it she wanted to get pregnant because she "felt" for him and wanted to have his baby as a way of showing this perverse affection for him? Or did she want to have MORE power over him and money from paternity fraud extortion?
*Ms.Thea the Pre-Law Major, Pro-Gender Egalitarian, and Pro-Reproductive Rights Activist*
Re:This isn't a defense (Score:2)
by Thomas on 09:25 AM December 3rd, 2004 EST (#7)
(User #280 Info)
Insanity defense? She isn't insane.

She may not be, but her defense attorneys will pull any trick that they think might work to try to get her off; they want, after all, to rack up their victories. The prosecutors, on the other hand, have their own personal agendas in addition to any concern they may have for jailing the guilty while freeing the innocent.

In all probability, the prosecutors will claim that she was manipulating the child, while defense attorneys, if they decide they can pull it off, will try to use her child's talk as part of a claim that she is emotionally still a child. I wouldn't be surprised to hear a claim that she was abused when she was 14 and that her emotional development stopped at that point. They may even claim that she's mentally a 14-year-old, despite any academic achievement beyond that level. This could be the basis of a claim to mental illness. The matter could come down to the question of whether she was manipulating the child, knowing it was wrong, or did she have a mental illness that caused her to relate to the child on his own level.

If the prosecutors don't think they have a good chance of winning the case, and any possible associated public favor, they may well decide to bargain, irrespective of what they may feel is in society's best interest.

Thomas
-- Creating hostile environments for feminazis since the 1970s.

Re:This isn't a defense (Score:2)
by jenk on 09:35 AM December 3rd, 2004 EST (#8)
(User #1176 Info)
Even if her developement stopped at 14, that does not mean anything. First of all, she managed to get through college, which shows the ability to handle responsibility. Second of all, 14 year olds know right from wrong, and if male are sometimes tried as adults in criminal cases. So even at the mental age of 14 she should be able to understand that a teacher should not have sex with a student, and a 24 year old does not belong with a 14 year old. The insanity plea in this case is just a stretch, even if it is true she has stopped maturing at 14.

BQ
Re:This isn't a defense (Score:2)
by Thomas on 12:30 PM December 3rd, 2004 EST (#9)
(User #280 Info)
The insanity plea in this case is just a stretch.

Yep. It does seem, though, that they're considering trying to use it. In fact, the article states that she's expected to use it. I doubt it will work, but they'll try. Again, they'll use any trick that they think might work to get their client found not guilty of a criminal offense, even if because of insanity.

As for LaFave, I know I'd rather go through life having been "guilty" of a mental illness and then cured than spend time in prison and then the rest of my life on a sex offender registry as a felony sex offender against a child. My understanding is that people, who have been found guilty of sexual assault on a child (note: I don't say who are guilty), have a rough go of it in prison.

Thomas
-- Creating hostile environments for feminazis since the 1970s.

Re:This isn't a defense (Score:1)
by thatold55 on 02:05 PM December 6th, 2004 EST (#10)
(User #1212 Info)
BQ says:

Even if her developement stopped at [age] 14, that does not mean anything. First of all, she managed to get through college, which shows the ability to handle responsibility.


Or perhaps this says more about the academic rigor of your typical education college than it does about her.
Picture oddness (Score:1)
by DeepThought (deep.42.thought@gmailEARTH.com) on 07:51 PM December 2nd, 2004 EST (#3)
(User #1487 Info)
In the enlarged picture, she looks like a human version of the Bride of Chucky... the eyes and smile are SERIOUSLY creepy.
-DeepThought --- Erase the EARTH to gmail me.
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