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This is an excellent site with much useful information. However, I fear we (men) are running out of time. We lose more and more liberties each day. We face a hostile legal system, government, and workplace. Academia now dominated by women is increasingly turning out bogus research which always demonizes men and then feeds its research back into our government & legal system which leads to the further deprivation of liberties and rights.
Somehow, all these divergent men's groups must be organized into an effective political force so we can begin to defend ourselves and regain liberties and justice that has been taken from us.
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But ....
Our main problem is 1001 guys with 1001 and one sites and 1001 organizations. We need a SMALLER number of sites and organization. We need to be willing to morph them into a few single entities so that we have a cohesive message.
Steven
Guerilla Gender Warfare is just Hate Speech in polite text
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Steve, you are right about the united voice but we need the diversity too. If fact I really hope to see more of it. I want to see the number of MRA sites exceed the number of spaces available in our nations'penal system even if they granted pardon to all of the criminals in them. When that critical mass is reached any one of us could speak for all of us and we will be unstoppable.
I would like to see some centralizing sites set up on private encrypted servers with real time voice communications so that we can hold conferences in a troll and big sister free enviornment. We can now determine who to invite in.
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I once heard that NOW has only 80,000 members. I know if we could combine the 1001 men's groups into one organization, we could develop a political force that could not be ignored.
If you take all the divergent men's groups in each state combined them into a national movement we would have, at a minimum, 1,000,000 plus men.
How can we make this happen?
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Here is one problem, that you have groups that want different things, and you have extremists in many groups. I for one will not openly support groups with extremists having a large say, and find myself moving from groups because of that. By extremists I mean the same crap we are facing from feminists but from men at women.
Also, mens groups need to be focused, which isn't happening in many groups.
I belong to a yahoo group right now, New York Civil Rights Council, which is making fast strides in the fathers rights arena, more progress in two months than all the boards I belong to in one year, because we are focused and ACTIVE. We do not have philosophical discussions about everything under the sun, we check in to see what needs to be done next. In 2 weeks we raised $900 to retain a lawyer to start a lawsuit against the family courts, we meet every month, we visit the offices of our representatives.
If men's groups want to do something, we need to start MEETING IN PERSON. I have been in more arguements in the last month on men boards, and all it does is serve to force us all apart. People say things to me, and sometimes I to them, that we would never say to each other face to face.
We need to stop criticizing each other. I have been insulted on boards for my past, being a homemaker, and other stupid things, and I too have insulted a few groups that I should not have. All this does is divide us.
Start here. Put up a data base with states and members. Let the members e-mail each other and get together. Pick subjects, like Glenn Sacks does, and go after them one at a time.
But most of all, get off your asses and DO something. Even Steven Beene in Alaska has been a force to be reckoned with. If he can manage that way up north, what can we do here where there are more people?
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jenk
A somewhat ironic note :)
I found the Aussie site very informative and well layed out. (Except the menu which for some reason seemed a little tricky to master).
Also F4J seem to be 'doing' things both in the UK and abroad.
And...
Feminism has a global reach...
be well
west
and his amazing thought tranforming machine - the keyboard.
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I am lost here, how is that ironic?
F4J IS a force, they meet every month, they actively do things, and they are not extremist in their stand. While their actions are extreme, that is because they have no other recourse. I do not find the men behind the masks extreme. They do not hate women, or vilify women, or think themselves better than women. They have equality as a goal, and are reaching for it.
This Aussie site looks great, but where will it be in a year? WIll it have joined the tide in moving things, or will it join the stagnant ponds that litter the men's movement landscape? I don't know.
Feminism does have global reach, but I am in NY, and that is where I can do best. Start small, local, with others starting small and local, and we eventually will be global too, in force.
BQ
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I think before we can come up with a main group that we all can agree on, we first need to come up with a word to symbolize our movement. Females back in the sixties created Feminism, why not something for us, something that would cover not only men in our movement, but also the females who follow our movement too.
I was origionally thinking of Malism, but then I realized maybe we might not want to go so reactionary against feminism.
Also we should get some of the support of the major places and web sites. Also we should send something to the major universities saying that there is support for men and to get them to move towards support throughout the campuses of a more balanced support of both genders.
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Hi,
The Irony was in this being a thread about an Aussie site with the only so slightly UScentric suggestions - the incongruous rather than humourous variety of irony.
Anyways - continueing on the Consolidated Men's movement...
Is this achieved through starting small then growing? Yes, of course, though this takes time.
Do we have the time to start with small men's groups, as these problems compound?
Many men's groups have already identified and proposed solutions to a large number of social problems that need addressing, including social injustice in the areas of Father's rights and DV. Yet gaining support and recognition of these problems and , more so, implementing solutions, is still ellusive due to social barriers.
Some of the social barriers stopping this could be:-
1 - (Sweeping genralizations) Women support Women, Men compete with Men. Men support Women. (That's a lot of support for Women!)
Exception - When faced with adversity or threat then Men support men, women support men.
2 - Young men do not percieve the same threats as older men. They marry with rose tinted spectacles - "I'm alright Jack, you're just an old fogey who knows nothing."
3 - Lack of leadership.
4 - Everything is assumed to benefit men, therefore there is no need for Men's commissions or men's sections etc.
5 - What exactly is men's role?
Years ago it was Provider and stalwart of the family. Due to technological change this is no longer the case.
Yet, psychologically children need both parents else they grow up dysfuntionally. (Still generalising here).
The suppresion of natural masculine traits will possibly lead to further social problems. (The use of drugs to suppress natural male behaviours in schools, will I believe lead to worse future problems. Psychiatrists refer to represssion/suppresion which in later life leads to psychological problems.)
6 - Negativity toward men and men's issues. (Also, the Hijacking of issues as Women's issues - eg The environment)
Possible way forward.
A recognition of natural male behaviours as well natural, with a few high profile people to espouse this view. (i.e Boys will be boys and that's ok - as long as it dosn't go to far, then you need Dad!).
We also need recognition of issues affecting men specifically amd society in general.
To help with these views, we have this group and that group for specific issues. This is good and moves us forward. Maybe though to get things moving quicker we need a group of people that are influential and in a position to make their voices heard. A group who act as a catalyst for change, then leave others to get on with it.
Finding a group like this is the tricky bit. We have been forced into a box by the use of language.
If you speak out you become an 'ist of some sort, some may even have balked at the earlier suggestion of the need for Dad.
So, speaking out needs people of elequence (or thick skin!) to avoid this labeling.
Where are these people? They are out there and the tide is turning. PC is becomming non-PC!
To accelerate this trend, where people speak out we can support them with follow up letters etc. This means stopping living in fear as Ray so often mentions.
As for leadership, we cannot expect a leader or even several leaders to represent all the different views and aspirations of all men.
What we can expect is leaders to express the need for Justice, Freedom and Respect for Men, Women and Children.
west
- Expressing some thoughts (again)
- The list of barriers is not exhaustive or prioritized or even correct. Maybe thats an issue in itself!
- The way forward is presented as a possibility, It does not address all the barriers identified and does not imply that there are no better alternatives. Indeed better is what we need.
PPPS - I hope the Aussie site does well :)
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by Anonymous User on 02:09 PM November 14th, 2004 EST (#8)
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I for one will not openly support groups with extremists having a large say, and find myself moving from groups because of that. By extremists I mean the same crap we are facing from feminists but from men at women.
I understand what you're saying. I don't want to be the mirror image of a feminist. And I don't think of myself as an anti-feminist, because I don't want to define myself in terms of the fraud that passes for feminism. As for men's rights extremists, I have sympathy for their anger and frustration, which I think in the circumstances is natural. But anger and frustration don't change what's right.
If men's groups want to do something, we need to start MEETING IN PERSON.
That would be good, but I think that a major impetus for change is just talking with friends and acquitances IN PERSON about these issues. That means not being obnoxious, or obsessive, but self-confident, willing to take risks in communication, and recognizing how men's issues are so important in daily life and in ordinary human relationships. The no-go-zone for talking about men's concerns and men's lives leads to shallowness in personal relationships, e.g husband/wife, mother/son, girlfriend/boyfriend. As far as being hurt goes, conversations about men's issues that I've had with friends and relatives have hurt more than any online argument ever could. But still, I don't want to live my life talking with the persons closest to me about tomorrow's weather.
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You probably have no clue how electrifying it is talking with someone who is as passionate about this cause as you are, in person. Plans, ideas, all flow and bounce from one to another and evolve and things happen.
This energy is not to be found on line in the same way. On line makes arguing over banalities seem productive, when it is not.
We need to really stop trying to find the ONE GROUP which will unify us all before we take action. Take it now, in the town you are in.
There are groups in every state, get to them, talk with them, and plan things.
The weather will always be the safe topic, but it is not the one which needs talking about, as you know. It takes time to win others over, so we need each other to gain stregnth from. BQ
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So again. Why not a server that has real time voice communications and SSL security. I have used such things for other activities and it works great...hell of a lot cheaper that air flights or conference calls.
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by Anonymous User on 02:24 PM November 14th, 2004 EST (#9)
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"I would like to see some centralizing sites set up on private encrypted servers with real time voice communications so that we can hold conferences in a troll and big sister free enviornment. We can now determine who to invite in."
It sounds like a good idea.
As far as the explosion of all the men's issues internet sites, "It appears to be a part of the male psyche to be loners, competitive (food, sex, jobs, sports, etc.)" Men are certainly team players within defined parameters, but the men's movement has a lot more diversity, than say, a well defined sports team (clear rules, uniforms, strategy, leadership, etc.)
I think we are always going to have a lot of guys saying, "Hey, here's the way I see it, and here's my site," because males are so individualistic.
I think it is a weakness that we are not more united behind a single organization, but there are some excellenct Fathers and men's groups that are more predominate than others.
Glenn Sacks has been a great uniter, and NCFM here is just one of the great organizations that is linked through his site His Side . ACFC here has also been key in Glenn's successful letter writing campaign this past week. I really, really, like what Glenn Sacks is doing, and would recommend that people "support" Glenn by sending a donation if possible, or at the least participating in his projects, and telling others about His-Side shows/projects.
MANN has been a vital link in the men's movement too, and I am happy to see that it's been around for a number of years now.
Even I haven't been able to resist getting into the internet act Menzbiz so my advice for all the new sites would be links, links, and more links. Necessity is the Father of invention and it appears the need for men to have a voice and be active has spawned a multitude of men's issues internet sites.
My advice to every male in the world is lead or join in. Even if we have thousands of sites, eventually enough people saying roughly the same thing will have an effect.
Men learn by doing, and men certainly learn from each other. An old Proverb says, "As iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another." Day by day the men's movement is growing and becoming more of a force to be reckoned with. The days of men being the disrespected, disposable pack animals of government, society, and family have not yet come to an end, but the deplorable abuse that men must daily face is certainly coming more and more to the attention of all parties.
(IMHO) Given the billions and billions in taxpayer funding that so many man-hating, radical/gender feminist programs, classes commissions, web sites, etc. enjoy, we should all try to be as resourceful as possible in order to contribute to the strength of men's issues internet sites and the men's movement.
Sincerely, Ray
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WOOHOO! Thanks for this link! I'm an Aussie, and while I appreciate this site- it is great to find some articles/links about stuff "down under"...
Thanks to whoever posted this link...
"When slaves gave up their seats for whites, we called it subservience; when men give up their seats for women, we call
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by Anonymous User on 02:40 PM November 14th, 2004 EST (#10)
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All of the negative anti-male trends in society that I see anytime I interact with mass media, academia or any social issue has been well documented and explained on this website.
Anti-male gender bias has become the dominant paradigm in our western world. Essentially, our white sisters are sexist and have become intent on creating a world in which men have fewer rights than women. They are not interested in equality. In fact, these women (and some foolish men) act as if equality is their goal, while their own brothers, sons and husbands have far fewer rights and lack any advocacy whatsoever.
We have the internet. The truth is available to those who want to find it. Feminists have taken over popular culture (along with gays and other special interest groups) and it is the white Anglo heterosexual male that they intend to dismantle.
Misandry is everywhere, yet nowhere. Check your spell checker if you don’t believe me… Misandry isn’t even recognized as a word, let alone a concept. This is not some vague literary issue, it is a cultural war against masculinity, and every school girl is in on it.
They will sleep with you, they will have fun with you (and your money), maybe marry you, maybe even love you, but today’s women as a collective want power for the sisterhood more than anything else. They will use any tactic to further their hate cause.
Feminism is sexism. Our University’s have become centers of miss-information.
I have never really liked the republican party, but I think this past election was a landslide for the neo-cons as a counter-measure to all the anti-male crap flourishing in society. Liberals have to rethink the value and roles of men and fathers in society, and stop all forms of male bashing, subtle or not.
CJ
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by Anonymous User on 05:00 PM November 14th, 2004 EST (#13)
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"Misandry is everywhere, yet nowhere. Check your spell checker if you don’t believe me… Misandry isn’t even recognized as a word, let alone a concept. This is not some vague literary issue, it is a cultural war against masculinity, and every school girl is in on it."
I did find "Misandry" in a Webster's 3rd New International Dictionary that I have, but that is one of those huge in-depth Library style dictionaries that I got back in 1973.
Largely, you are right about the word misandry. Most people don't know what it means, or recognize it as a word. Dictionaries and language are based on words in usage so my advice is use the word every chance you get, and then follow it up by being redundant. Just say "man-hating" before or after you say "misandry," and the connection will be even more clear.
I actually came up with a truck sign using the word "misandry" and one of my friends said. Nobody will know what it means. I replied, "They'll learn." Parking it in front of your state capitol or other major government institution also helps the terminally dense, anti-male folks to be further enlightened, because you are then associating it with a major source of misandry. The sign, still in the works, would simply say, CALIFORNIA'S MISANDRY HARMS US ALL. O.K., I'll admit that it's a brain teaser for those who won't know what misandry means, but some of them will be curious enough to look it up and learn.
Here's an example where I saw one guy use the word "misandry,"
click Abu Ghraib and American Misandry
As dumb luck would have it a nationally syndicated columnist quoted from that article, giving credits, so that article got referenced in over 100 newspapers. Thereby, even more people got exposed to the word "misandry."
here's another example,
click Misandry is the #1 Hate Crime in America
It may be some time before "misandry" has as wide a recognition as "misogyny," but the men's movement is certainly beginning to bring the word "misandry" more into common everyday usage. It's too bad there's so much "misandry" that "misandry" will have to become a household word in the English language.
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Already the feminists have denounced the site:
"That Respect Your Man website is pure s***. Really, I gave it the benefit of the doubt and raised a brow at "a growing number of woman I meet have grown up believing that men are valueless", but "domestic violence is equal between men and women." was a deal closer."
Here's the rest of the thread: http://www.spacefem.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1912 9
I highly suggest people log on and express their opinions to Ms. Thalia
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by Anonymous User on 09:40 PM November 15th, 2004 EST (#18)
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I put a lengthy reply up there because I disagreed with too much of what was being said.
Note that I also disagree with a lot of what you people say here, especially in respect to your uncritical support of ultra-conservatives that could try utilize the men's rights groups to reach their goals - when I read some of the traditionalist statements here, it makes my stomach churn.
Nonetheless, the site is good and much more comprehensive than anything we have here in Germany. I should sign up some times, I guess you are interested in a European/German point of view?
Too bad there doesn't seem to be a general forum here.
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