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...this picture HELPS us. Remember: it's being shown to provoke outrage. I'm GLAD people (from President Bush on down) are furious with what's going on in these pictures. That female members of our military are equally guilty, and the publicity of this fact, just goes to support what we're saying.
bg
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These photos will prove to be powerful sources of propaganda for the Iraqi resistance and, for that matter, US-despising terrorists. If the resistance expands, it will increase the likelihood of a renewed draft.
It's interesting that of the people behind these acts, which could lead to the deaths of thousands of drafted American men, one of the few soldiers has been identified as Ms. Lynndie England, a 21-year-old from West Virginia, and the person, who ran the Abu Ghraib prison and three other US military jails, was Ms. Brigadier General Janice Karpinski.
And we're supposed to believe that women are more loving and nurturing than men.
As an aside, maybe Steven Beene can enlighten me here: Have any men ever gotten to be generals without ever having had to face combat?
Thomas
-- Creating hostile environments for feminazis since the 1970s.
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by Anonymous User on 05:45 PM May 3rd, 2004 EST (#3)
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To be honest (and not to downplay the situation), this is one of the best things that could have happened to the men's movement...female soldiers in charge of overseeing Iraqi POWs (male) and sexually humiliating them with smiles on their faces...FOR THE CAMERA.
Gender doesn't matter...power is power...men and women are both capable of abusing it in very harmful ways. We have seen what our women are capable of, so let's finally extend an equality that includes Selective Service registration for women, too...no driver's license, no student loans/grants, no federal jobs, $250k fines and up to 10 years in jail if they you don't register along with the boys.
Jeff
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Yes people get to be generals w/out combat experience, but not often.
Steven
Guerilla Gender Warfare is just Hate Speech in polite text
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by Anonymous User on 07:05 PM May 3rd, 2004 EST (#6)
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....who ran the Abu Ghraib prison and three other US military jails, was Ms. Brigadier General Janice Karpinski.
What does this bitch look like? If this were a man in charge there would be photos everywhere!
Can somebody get photos of this bitch and spread them around?
Warble
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by Anonymous User on 12:35 AM May 4th, 2004 EST (#8)
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"....who ran the Abu Ghraib prison and three other US military jails, was Ms. Brigadier General Janice Karpinski."
She was on Oreilly tonight with her lawyer. She blamed the whole thing on M.I. (military intelligence), but a high level investigator has placed enormous blame squarely on her.
People are shocked by these scences, but things worse than this happen to men in american prisons every day. I recall when I was in the Navy in 68, a guy who worked for me told me how his clothes had been taken away, water thrown on him, and a fan turned on him (in a steel cell on a ship). It was punishment for fighting.
These pictures from Iraq just made the war on terror more difficult. These pictures just made life harder for every fighting man in the field, but they don't surprise me. They are just one more example of how the american & western cultures conduct their war on all men and treat them as 2nd class citizens.
Ray
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by Anonymous User on 12:03 PM May 4th, 2004 EST (#14)
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I know you all are probably sick of me bringing this up freaquently, but I really do feel strongly on the issue, so here goes. (again)
You have to remember, when seeing these horrible photos, that we live in a culture that CELEBRATES the whole tie-up-and-humiliate-the-male scenerio.
I have heared people ask; "Did these soldiers really think they could get away with this??"
My ansewer is; "Probably". This country is so ACCUSTOMED to the images of men in this type of scenerio, that it is seen as not only "funny" but ACCEPTABLE. They probably thought very little of the consequences of their actions, these soldiers, as MOST of the time there ARE NO CONSEQUENCES for presenting or treating men in this way.
The female soldier who is seen pointing at the captive men's genitals, giveing the 'thumbs up', and beaming ear to ear, likely thinks it is her DUTY as a WOMAN to treat these male captives in this manner, because, frankly, ALOT of women DO beleive that debaseing and humiliateing men is their DUTY as women.
I hope this fiasco sheds more light on this matter. I for one am really TIRED of it.
I have enough aggravation...,
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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"I know you all are probably sick of me bringing this up freaquently, but I really do feel strongly on the issue, so here goes. (again)
You have to remember, when seeing these horrible photos, that we live in a culture that CELEBRATES the whole tie-up-and-humiliate-the-male scenerio."
Yes, but the silver lining here is not the atrocities themselves, but how they're being condemned EVERYWHERE. I have yet to witness one single person make light of the photos or ask, "What's the big deal?" Everyone is angry about it, and I imagine the only ones who aren't are the stunned women and men who committed the atrocities in the first place.
bg
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by Anonymous User on 12:31 PM May 4th, 2004 EST (#20)
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Boy Genteel.
Good point.
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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I purposely wrote that as one word. It seems that the word "menandwomen" is always used as a substitute for "soldiers" where there is something honorable or heroic to report -- even when there are no women involved. For instance, the other day there was a story on the news dealing with fathers. Several times they referred to fathers as "menandwomen". I don't think that people even think any more before they say that dreaded word, "menandwomen". Oops! I was wrong. I notice that most(maybe all) of the stories covering this are referring to "U.S. soldiers" rather than "menandwomen" when there are clearly women involved. If there were ever a correct place for this horrible term, it is here! Judging from the pictures I've seen, I think they deserve top billing though a la "Womenandmen"
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by Anonymous User on 07:16 PM May 3rd, 2004 EST (#7)
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He is Commander of the allied forces in 2nd World war.
Eisenhower wasn't allowed to fight during the 1st world war, because he was too valuable as a trainer???
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by Anonymous User on 12:44 AM May 4th, 2004 EST (#9)
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In addition to the female general, I have seen two different women in the photos with the naked Iraqi men. One is pointing to the genitals smoking a cigarette and smirking arrogantly. The other is leaning on a large pile of about 10 or 12 naked Iraqi men, resting her head and smiling. There are also men in the photos, but all the ones I've seen show women doing the humiliating things. I heard on Fox news tonight that there is much more to this story than has already been seen. Things also involving young boys are reported to have occured. I suspect we'll be hearing about this for weeks or months to come. This whole thing is disgusting. So much for the moral high ground.
Ray
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by Anonymous User on 12:11 PM May 4th, 2004 EST (#15)
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Ray.
Yeah, I have a feeling that female soldiers had more to do with this than simply poseing for pictires.
I understand that some of these Iraqi men were SODOMISED with BROOMSTICKS! I wonder if any of the female soldiers had anything to do with THAT!
I wouldn't be suprised to learn that they had.
But rest assured the media will do it's best to minimize the roll of ANY or maybe even ANY female involvement in this garbage.
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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by Anonymous User on 12:13 PM May 4th, 2004 EST (#16)
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I forgot to mention that if these had been FEMALE captives we would have never heard the end from the media about "violence against WOMEN".
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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"One is pointing to the genitals smoking a cigarette and smirking arrogantly. The other is leaning on a large pile of about 10 or 12 naked Iraqi men, resting her head and smiling. "
I feel a need to say a phrase that I hear frequently whenever a *male* steps out of his society-enforced parameters, but I think that it applies to what the scenes that are described here:
That's just ......wrong :(
R
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The media interviews of Brigadier General Janice Karpinski who was in charge of the prisons and the MP unit that was stationed there seems to be doing what former US Attorney General Janet Rhino did after the Waco debacle. She never really accepts personal blame and tries to pass the buck saying she was unaware that this was going on and getting bad advice from others , usually men. But the really sad part about this is that General Karpinski will only suffer the humiliation of "possibly" not getting another star and will retire with full benefits. No real punishment for this atrocity will befall her.
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I also predict that the general will retire with full benefits. Lets just hope that the women and men shown abusing the prisioners get the jail time they deserve. (Notice I put women first :) )
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by Anonymous User on 12:18 PM May 4th, 2004 EST (#17)
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The men certainly will face justice. But MY guess is that the females will be "excused" out of trouble, as is usually the case, with our "justice" system.
(Can ya tell I'm in a foul mood today?)
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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It's interesting that of the people behind these acts, which could lead to the deaths of thousands of drafted American men, one of the few soldiers has been identified as Ms. Lynndie England, a 21-year-old from West Virginia, and the person, who ran the Abu Ghraib prison and three other US military jails, was Ms. Brigadier General Janice Karpinski. And we're supposed to believe that women are more loving and nurturing than men.
I came to MANN this morning to post an item about this, and was pleased to to see that someone already has. I find it interesting that this aspect of the situation doesn't seem to have generated any comment in this country, even on antiwar sites and forums. The fact that a woman is prominently shown participating in (and obviously enjoying) the sexual humiliation of these men will be a huge factor in the Arab world, where men have a much more realistic view of women than that prevailing in the Euro-American West. American men have been so pussy-whipped that they dare not even notice the "gender" aspect of the story.
Gender doesn't matter...power is power...men and women are both capable of abusing it in very harmful ways. We have seen what our women are capable of, so let's finally extend an equality that includes Selective Service registration for women....
No, gender does matter. Can you imagine these women condoning and enjoying similar treatment given to female prisoners? This woman's smirk is the true face of feminism.
As for drafting women, I'd prefer to abolish the draft entirely, of course. Freedom is not defended by slaves. But the Republic has already long since become the Empire, and that's not likely to happen. One thing about women in the military I haven't seen mentioned: When I was growing up in the 1950s, and facing the draft, I remember being told or perhaps reading somewhere that the reason women were traditionally not included in military service was not because they "are more loving and nurturing than men" -- but quite the opposite! It was that women, once aroused, are in fact far more savage fighters than men, thus including them in armies would render impossible the effort in recent centuries to mitigate the horrors of war by subjecting it to some kind of "rules." (A noble if perhaps somewhat silly idea, but an effort at least to stop the juggernaut before it destroys us all.) As everyone on this site is aware, women follow rules only when they feel like it; when they don't, they exercise their primal power and do what they want.
Ms. Brigadier General Janice Karpinski. What does this bitch look like?
"Army Brig. Gen. Janis Karpinski, the lone female commander in Iraq, runs the prison system that once was an apparatus of terror." Funny, there's no picture of the fearless general in this story, but you can see her here, along with sharper versions of the famous photos.
By the way, Fred Reed once again offers incisive, entertaining commentary.
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by Anonymous User on 11:21 AM May 4th, 2004 EST (#13)
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The fact that a woman is prominently shown participating in (and obviously enjoying) the sexual humiliation of these men will be a huge factor in the Arab world, where men have a much more realistic view of women than that prevailing in the Euro-American West. American men have been so pussy-whipped that they dare not even notice the "gender" aspect of the story. .....
There is no question but that this hate motivated attack on the male segment of the Muslum community by Brig. Gen. Janis Karpinski will be the motivating force for more attacks against the American public.
The next terroris bombing in America will be on the head of our feminist male hating General, Janis Karpinski. She needs to be arrested and thrown in jail for life!
Warble
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by Anonymous User on 12:22 PM May 4th, 2004 EST (#19)
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The next terrorist attack may be on the heads of all women, IMO.
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The mere fact that female "soldiers" conspired to be a major part of this discraceful episode is a telling and dramatic prediction of what we will witness in the future with our now co-ed so-called armed forces.
Consider just for a moment how devastating to the U.S.' moral position on the Iraq War these photos, and the inevitable about-to-be-broadcast media muckraking will be...
There is perhaps nothing more vile and humiliating to Muslim men than to be so defiled and publicly shamed as captive clowns of infidel American feminist females.
This one went way over the line of usual American cultural ignorance and disregard for other peoples' standards and values.
It going to cost us all ... BIG TIME!
In terms of world perception, the U.S. has just become a nation of perverts and sadists.
Now watch the Busheviks try to spin it...
"It's a terrible thing ... living in fear."
- Roy: hunted replicant, Blade Runner
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by Anonymous User on 09:19 PM May 4th, 2004 EST (#25)
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America IS a country of perverts and sadists.
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America IS a country of perverts and sadists.
Thanks for your opinon Osama.
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by Anonymous User on 01:11 PM May 6th, 2004 EST (#44)
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Yeah, "Osama".
You know what they say about America.: "If you don't like it..., get the hell out...!"
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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by Anonymous User on 02:50 AM May 6th, 2004 EST (#38)
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Your are absolutely right. Her smirking face really represents every feminist fantasy. i.e. humiliation of the male-especially when naked.
Just goes to show, when in control in a military situation, women abuse and sexually assault too. Kinda puts paid to all the frequent ludicrous fantasies that feminists have about virtuous women and evil men during war.
Rob
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by Anonymous User on 01:17 PM May 6th, 2004 EST (#45)
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Just this morning I saw a NEW photo taken during this fiasco.
It is of that SAME smirking b!#ch walking one of the captive men on a make-shift LEASH!
So you all are RIGHT this does INDEED reflect modern women and feminism.
I usually try not to be crass, but I'll bet that little b!#ch spent the whole night masturebateing after her little erotic adventure.
Too many women GET OFF on this kind of treatment of men. TOO MANY!
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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"more loving and nurturing than men."
Throughout history there have been ferocious bands, units, and armies of women, especially in Africa. In many, if not most, primitive cultures, men fight the wars, but it is the women who do the torturing.
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I know this is somewhat off topic. Does anyone know what percentage of the American military dead in Iraq and Afghanistan is female? Is it less than 1 percent? Does anybody know a number and percentage?
Is there a web site with this info that's continuously updated?
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by Anonymous User on 10:08 PM May 4th, 2004 EST (#27)
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Yes, I've been watching this closely every chance I get. I'm sure it's changed again, but the most recent number I had about a hundred deaths back was 16 dead women. I believe that was the number. I heard the number for women dead on the T.V., then looked up the total number of dead for the war on the internet. The total number of women dead worked out to be just a squeak over 2%. That's the highest ever for any American war. You are very close when you say that 98% of the dead in this war are men. Historically of course, it is still 99.999% men dead in combat as compared to women.
Ray
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Thanks for the info. The female dead percentage is a little higher than I thought it would be. I figured it would be 1 percent or less. Still, women are at far less risk than men. The faces and names of the war dead I see in the news seem to always be males.
I wish I could find a web site that has this info by numbers and percentages and updated periodically.
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by Anonymous User on 03:20 AM May 5th, 2004 EST (#29)
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"The faces and names of the war dead I see in the news seem to always be males."
98 dead men for every 2 women will definitely make it seem that way. There are higher numbers of women in the military than before thanks to DAKOWITS and other military policies set up during the Clinton years. There are even women serving in a few combat roles. One of the female dead was a chopper pilot shot down, another a demolition person. Still 1% of the female dead are from combat support units that were in the wrong place at the wrong time. I would guess a similar or higher number exist for male dead.
This style of terrorist warfare takes guerrilla warfare to the next step and seeks to bypass military strengths and attack civilian and softer military targets, although these days it does appear to be turning into a heated military conflict.
I don't believe they can defeat us militarily, only politically, and IMO there are plenty of people in america who will assist the Iraqi insurgents in helping america lose this war. They remind me of those americans during the Vietnam conflict who cost so many military personnel their lives.
The military personnel at the Abu Graib prison have certainly contributed to inspiring the insurgents to resist, to fight on, to not surrender.
The Arab world despises the "immorality" between males and females that so many Hollywood movies project as the norm. The events at Abu Graib can only serve to reinforce those stereotypes, and make many believe they were right all along. The events at Abu Graib are getting wide circulation at Al Jazzera and other Arab media outlets.
These people should be getting much harsher sentence than they are getting, but then they were only committing these acts against men and worse than this goes on everyday in our own american prisons so really, it's no big deal to anyone in power except for the politics of this war. Men are disposable in this nations "war on Fathers and men," and this event at Abu Graib is just another front in america's long battle to denigrate and destroy all things male. america's policy regarding the rights of men is the more dangerous form of terrorism that every male in america and the world faces everyday, and it all starts in women's studies programs on american college campuses (IMO).
Ray
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by Anonymous User on 10:56 AM May 5th, 2004 EST (#31)
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I don't believe they can defeat us militarily, only politically, and IMO there are plenty of people in america who will assist the Iraqi insurgents in helping america lose this war. They remind me of those americans during the Vietnam conflict who cost so many military personnel their lives.
Yes. Last I checked these American hating insurgents were called free-lovers, hippies, socialist, communist, leftists, progressives, and feminist.
Warble
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by Anonymous User on 01:10 PM May 5th, 2004 EST (#32)
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A long while back I heared on a news report that one of the main reasons the Taliban hate us so much is because they see American men as P---y-whipped and "dominated by their women".
(They may actually have a point there.)
I only heared that once. I think it was on FOX NEWS SUNDAY. But I never heared it again. ...'wonder why...,
Thundercloud
"Hoka hey!"
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by Anonymous User on 04:26 AM May 5th, 2004 EST (#30)
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"The military personnel at the Abu Grahib prison have certainly contributed to inspiring the insurgents to resist, to fight on, to not surrender.
The Arab world despises the "immorality" between males and females that so many Hollywood movies depict as the norm. The vile events that occurred at the Abu Grahib prison can only serve to reinforce those stereotypes as "evil" in the minds of Arabs, and make many of them believe they were right all along. Those despicable acts being committed against all those Arab men at Abu Grahib are getting very wide circulation at Al Jazzera and other Arab media outlets.
I notice that it was a woman General who was in charge of the Abu Grahib prison. She, and the Abu Grahib military personnel (including at least two prominent females) who are depicted in those now widely circulated infamous pictures should be getting much harsher sentences than they are getting, but then they were only committing these acts against men and worse than this (rape, etc.) goes on against men everyday in our own American prisons, so really, it's no big deal to anyone in power except for the politics of this war.
Men are disposable in this nation's "war on Fathers and men," and this event at Abu Grahib is just another front in America's long battle to denigrate and destroy all things male. America's policy regarding the rights of men is the more dangerous form of terrorism that every male in America and the world faces today, everyday, and it all starts in women's studies programs on American college campuses (IMO), or have you overlooked that too in your coverage of this story?"
Ray
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by Anonymous User on 01:14 PM May 5th, 2004 EST (#33)
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Well said, Ray.
Yes, what better way to commit "gendercide" against males, than to have them kill each other?
Then women don't have to get their hands dirty.
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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I will just bet that there is no military regulation saying female security personnel can not be in a situation where male prisoners are nude such as being guarded while they are taking showers, strip searches or whatever. However, I will also bet there is an unambiguous regulation that says in no uncertain terms that male security personnel will not be in the presence of female prisoners who for some valid reason have to be nude. It would be interesting to know about the rules the military or the state for that matter have regarding the handling of prisoners of the opposite sex from the security personnel who have them in custody.
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"It would be interesting to know about the rules the military or the state for that matter have regarding the handling of prisoners of the opposite sex from the security personnel who have them in custody."--Luek
Yes, I'll bet female prisoners and detainees enjoy greater protection as is often the case. Going back to the subject of the female general in charge of the prison, it appears she may get a pass. Only time will tell, but at this point it looks like she'll be treated more leniently than a male officer in her situation. Double standard par for the course.
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by Anonymous User on 01:22 PM May 6th, 2004 EST (#46)
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In other words we may win the war, but we'll definately loose the battle, right?
I couldn't agree more.
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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by Anonymous User on 12:30 AM May 6th, 2004 EST (#37)
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I guess this cartoon expresses my viewpoint about government experimenting with programs for females in the military. Sometimes I think my experiences have made me a little cynical.
Ray
(Click) Sam's Looking Out for You Guys
(Please do not scroll up the page of the linked item(s). All the info I am trying to convey is only as the page comes up initially.)
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I've been wondering what details have been airbrushed/cropped out of the photos we see on sites like The Washington Post, and even AntiWar.com (the best source I know for what The Washington Post will never tell us). Here's a little detail that explains Pvt. Feminist's expression of glee:
Private Lynndie England has now become the poster child for "democracy in the Middle East," the ultimate goal that President George W. Bush and Prime Minister Tony Blair invoked to justify their current adventure. All over the vast, oil-rich region, people see young Lynndie leering at a naked Iraqi with a sack over his head as he masturbates at her command.
Her sadistic fun and games - along with even more disgusting photos and stories of male rape and deadly beatings - play directly into the hands of puritanical, anti-Western Muslim preachers and suicidal Fools of God. How righteous Osama must feel when he hears that the young woman, a reservist in the Military Police, was shipped back to Fort Bragg, North Carolina, after becoming pregnant in Iraq.
Why did this young woman join the MPs? Perhaps the same reason, I'm increasingly convinced, why increasing numbers of American women pursue "law enforcement" careers -- as police officers, lawyers, judges. Female judges, in particular, are brazenly obvious in their enjoyment of arbitrary power over men.
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by Anonymous User on 01:41 PM May 6th, 2004 EST (#47)
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You guys have just perfectly stated what I've been trying (and possibly failing) to say for a few years now.
Now maybe others will understand why I am so adamant about the whole male-in-bondage imagery that we see more and more freaquently in the media and other out-lets.
This is the PERFECT example of the type of conditioning western females have recieved through out the last 3 decades, through feminism, the media, even "romance novles".
And yes, women's pornography is RIFE with female on male domination.
But it just never gets talked about. We consantly hear how "pornography damages men's perseptions of women". But NEVER do we hear how WOMEN'S porn damages women's perceptions of MEN!
Some how, some guy jerking off to a PLAYBOY center-fold doesn't seem as damageing to one's psyche as some woman masturebateing over an image of some one leading another human being around on a leash, whipping them while bound and gagged.
And we are supposed to think MEN are SICK...?!?!?
HELLLLO...!
Yeah, I know, there are more than enough sicko men out there, as well. But Men are not conditioned and ENCOURAGED to treat women like animals. But women ARE conditioned AND encouraged to treat men as less than human.
It is THERE that lies MUCH of the difference...!
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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