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Marc, excellent letter. Even without the link, anyone really interested can do a search. That rabbi was great. What a perfect way to fight fire with fire. The rad fem was funny, oh poor women for choosing to dress like sluts, wah wah wah. It was pathetic after the two well written, logical letters.
The Biscuit Queen
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Actually, Jen, I interpreted the letter by Stephany Yablow a little differently. I took it as an indictment of women for their careless behavior, almost blaming women for NOT doing what they can to "stop the cycle of abuse and violence." Perhaps I'm attled...
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by Anonymous User on 01:10 PM April 23rd, 2004 EST (#3)
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Frank.
Yeah, That's how I took it too.
Actually I'm a bit suprised that the L.A. times even printed these letters. GLAD, but suprised.
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
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I took it as a point that the author of the book chose only what she wanted to hear. That if you read the whole bible you will find many passages about respecting and cherishing women, (and all over the world there are male bashing proverbs) she chose to ignore. The rabbi was pointing out a good proverb. This woman is looking at only a segment of the past and making a generalized point, and I thought the rabbi was refuting that. Maybe I am just being niave.
The Biscuit Queen
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Jen,
I took the Rabbi's comments as refutation of VERY selective reading of the bible.
The girl at the end was once again blaming MEN for how WOMEN dress.
The tired old arguement of "women dress to plz men" is just horseshit. Women dress to impress EVERYONE. If a woman dresses sexy she may want to attract men, but it is her choice, her money that bought it, her dainty little hands that put the clothes on, and her mind that made the decision.
This Steph chick is typical of women who want THEIR actions to be someone else's fault (but only when there is a negative consequence).
All in all, who cares, the reply by Marc was cool, and the fact it GOT printed was a victory in and of itself.
Steven
Guerilla Gender Warfare is just Hate Speech in polite text
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Hey, I am not the only one. We just got an Australian Cattle Dog...for Dave! Now he can't blame me for all the dog ruckus!;-)
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by Anonymous User on 09:15 PM April 23rd, 2004 EST (#8)
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Mineke Schippers is minor employee at a minor Dutch University who spent a huge amount of time - years in fact - deiberately collecting anti-woman proverbs - so what? There are zillions of that type of book around.
At last she found a publisher and is doing the pomotional rounds - she sells a few thousand copies, makes a few dollars, makes a few guest apparance on shows no-one watches, puts all this on her CV and moves on.
It's bait - and as one you clods rise to it!
Why even give her the time of day! Talking about being narcissistic and self-obsessed!
Ignore her; she'll certainly ignore you and some of your comments may even make it on the back of the book cover as a sales pitch to promote more cost-recovery, before the book is remainder and offered in Bargain Basement Sales: "Men hate it - ergo - women must/will love it". and more dollars flow to Mineke and good for her!
Writing letters to The Times didn't stop Hitler - so why should letters have any effect now?
Get a life! and do something useful - like aiming at a real target.
Pathetic!
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Contrary to the above, letters to the editor debunking the worse claims of the DV exploiters is very valuable. And it is a victory, however minor, just to get such a letter published: it may get some reporter, or at least some members of the public digging out the true facts. If the public EVER gets wind of how they have been lied to by the feminists on so many issues, there will be a major upheaval. Too bad (as far as I can tell) most major newspapers don't seem to print weblinks.
As for Schippers, she's just a vehicle used to gain exposure for the real issues.
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by Anonymous User on 04:03 PM April 24th, 2004 EST (#12)
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The L.A. Times otherwise would not print anything on this (like others here, I'm surprised they even printed our letter), and so the public remains ignorant unless we get the issue out in every way we can. Our failure to respond with letters to the editor is one of the many things that have allowed femiists to have a free ride in the media, especially because it keeps even the non-feminist editors ignorant. This was a great opportunity, easy and *free*, to introduce this fact to at least ten thousand people, most of whom have probably not even heard it before. We may not "see" the results, but most results are incremental and unseen. Repeating the truth in public over and over, calmly and rationally, is very effective regardless of whether we see the immediate result. It gets the issues heard and it helps till the ground. And the letters section is one of the most often-read part of a newspaper. So thank you for your kind advice, anon, but we will continue, along with many other projects, to write letters to editors as the opportunity arises. And best wishes to your own activist projects and efforts.
Marc
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I have tried time and time and time again to get a local paper to run a story on male victims of DV. I wrote a letter to the editor recently regarding this issue, stating the real stats along with analysis, and what did they do?
They refused to publish my letter. Keep in mind that they have published probably between 10 to 15 previous letters I have written on various topics. (I'm an avid letter writer.) My DV letter was no different: I stated a position and backed it up with sources.
They refused to print it.
So if anybody thinks that letters to the editor don't make a difference, think again. They refused to publish my letter for a reason. Because they know it's true, and they have a political agenda to push. Consequently, they can't have the truth being published in their paper.
"Existence exists. A is A." -Ayn Rand
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by Anonymous User on 06:57 PM April 24th, 2004 EST (#14)
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These are good points and they remind me that we have tried for about four years to get the L.A. Times to pay attention, and seldom would they ever print anything from us *especially* on the topic of DV. When they did print our material they usually cut out the most critical data. Eventually we starting calling high-up editors and even spoke with the top news editor. We also started cancelling subscriptions and letting them know why. A small group of us with signs marched in front of their building in downtown L.A. confronted them about the bias using a bullhorn. Since then we have not written any letters for months. I had cancelled my subscription and wasn't even reading their paper. I just so happened to see this article at work and we wrote a letter, and this time it printed with at least the data mentioned, even if not given a link. I can't say whether our activist efforts made the difference, but it's certainly possible.
In all of our rallies and marches and public testimony, I have never come across these types of so-called "insurgent" men's rights activists in the real world. Where are they, other than on the internet? And where are their guns? Why haven't we been reading about their shootings? Has the Lace Curtain covered that up? Some of our members will certainly join their next scheduled Normandy Invasion if they let us know ahead of time. In the meantime we volunteer activists will continue doing what we can using news releases, op-eds, letters-writing, rallies, tabling, networking, organizing, lobbying, internet work, etc. I guess we'll also have to put up with criticism from big-talking, do-nothing online insurgents along the way. That's just part of the job.
Marc
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Maybe they don't publish them, but they do notice them. And more and more letters are GETTING written. We're getting the message out, but patience is required.
Trust me, as a man falsely accused of rape I know the rage and the frustration, especially to blatant injustice. But if we give up then the ones who rape our lives using third party/proxy violence (unfair laws) win.
I aint yet begun to fight (type, lol)
Steven
Guerilla Gender Warfare is just Hate Speech in polite text
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by Anonymous User on 06:02 PM April 25th, 2004 EST (#21)
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Marc,
You're doing great work. Thank you very much!
Joe
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We may not "see" the results, but most results are incremental and unseen.
This is very true. It's unlikely that a single letter will change the world but each letter has a significant effect. In fact, even letters not published are important because they will settle in the back of an editors mind as a potentially relevant issue.
We are in the right. The data overwhelmingly support our cause. At some point, we will hit "critical mass" and men's issues such as DV against men will become a mainstream issue. Most likely, this will be the result of many incremental steps such as Marc's letter to the LA times.
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by Anonymous User on 07:37 PM April 24th, 2004 EST (#16)
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"It's bait - and as one you clods rise to it!
Why even give her the time of day! Talking about being narcissistic and self-obsessed!"
It's not bait, it's man-hate and as one you radical feminists flock to it. Talking about being narcissistic and self-obsessed!
"Writing letters to The Times didn't stop Hitler - so why should letters have any effect now?
Get a life! and do something useful - like aiming at a real target."
At least you see the connection between this kind of hateful gender feminist propaganda and that spewed by Hitler. The radical feminist man-hating agenda as ensconced in the domestic violence industry, women's studies programs, women's commissions and other places needs the long overdue light of accountability shined on it. Get used to it.
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This woman is looking at only a segment of the past and making a generalized point..."
That's what feminists do. The clearest example is their treatment of DV. The research shows that about 25% is male on female, 50% is both bashing each other and 25% is female on male. Feminists have experienced/observed/heard about the male on female part and are convinced that that is the way the whole world is. Once they have accepted that, they must ignore/deny/discount/suppress all evidence of the existence of other dynamics.
Larry
ADULT: What you are once you've run out of excuses.
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by Anonymous User on 09:08 PM April 24th, 2004 EST (#19)
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"That's what feminists do." "Once they have accepted that, they must ignore/deny/discount/suppress all evidence of the existence of other dynamics."
That's why they call them Fembots. It reminds me of the line Michael Beine speaks in the original Terminatior movie, "That's all they do!"
Fembots are unthinking terminators of all things males. They terminate with all prejudice.
Ray
(Click) Women's Studies Systematizes Uncritical Thinking
(Please do not scroll up the page of the linked item(s). All the info I am trying to convey is only as the page comes up initially.)
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by Anonymous User on 07:34 AM April 24th, 2004 EST (#10)
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"Mineke Schipper is a feminist who is getting publicity for her book in which she digs up proverbs, from all over the world, that are negative toward women and then uses these proverbs to help spread stereotypes and one-sided distortions about gender and domestic violence.
Her book appears to be full of the antecdotal, "unscholarly research" that has been so typical of the hot air that has carried the women's industries along all these years. It was great to see Marc's reply to that style of windbag pseudointellectualism.
Here are a couple of graphic illustrations opining on the effects of 30 years of windbag feminist bloviating.
Ray
P.S. I was hoping these would get some exposure in D.C. this year, but maybe not.
(Click)Feminist Programs Have an Effect on Males
(Click)No More Bigoted Snowjobs to Get Women's Programs
(Please do not scroll up the page of the linked item(s). All the info I am trying to convey is only as the page comes up initially.)
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Man o Man. Your shirts are getting better and better. Both of those are kinda cool. Pretty soon I'm gonna have to order me some!
Steven
Guerilla Gender Warfare is just Hate Speech in polite text
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by Anonymous User on 12:44 AM April 25th, 2004 EST (#20)
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Steven:
Thanks, I'm always thinking Feminist shock value. I won't be satisfied until I see their pointed little heads spinning around like a top, like Linda Blair in the movie, "The Exorcist.
Ray
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