|
This discussion has been archived.
No new comments can be posted.
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
We have a real challenge with Hollywood elites. People like Patrick Stewart are rightfully decrying violence, but based on his childhood experiences he assumes emotionally that DV is done against women only. That emotional injury that he sustained must be respected and dealt with. At the same time, ways to inform him that DV is not limited to man-on-woman must be found, without it backfiring.
If anyone writes letters to him about his participation in AI's latest program, be mindful of his emotional wounds and make it clear, gently, that men are also victims of DV at the hands of women, and more often fatally so than the other way around.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
by Anonymous User on 02:20 PM March 11th, 2004 EST (#2)
|
|
|
|
|
Stewart claims that the movie "Kill Bill" "empoweres women to be violent towards other women" Did he even SEE the film?? Did he even see out-takes of it?? did he even HEAR about it's contents?? First of all Mr. Stewart READ the title of the film it is; "kill BILL"!! not 'kill BELINDA". If he had seen or known anything about the movie he would have known a man gets sliced in half by Uma Therman's character. (oh, but that's okay, though because we only care about violence against women, now don't we?)
What about "Charlie's Angels" all we see is Women beating up men. Same with "Charlie's Angels II(full throttle)" What about "Tomb raider" Mr. Stewart? all Angelina Jolie's character DOES is beat up, tie up and shoot up MEN! What, it's okay to "empower" women to be violent against MEN, I guess. What about TV shows like "She spies", "Relic hunter" and "Dark Angel"? all they do or did on those shows is beat the hell out of men.
Have you seen the show "24"? where a man is bound and gagged NAKED as a tazer is used on him includeing his GENITALS? I'll give you 6 years of my salary if you can point to even ONE example of this sort of thing being done to a FEMALE. It is done to males CONSTANTLY!
And what about male on male violence? That is almost as common as female on male violence. Why aren't you saying; "We're empowering men to be violent against other men...?" Furthermore, when's the last time you saw a woman get kicked, stabbed, punched, kneed, shot or elbowed to the groin or breasts?!?!?
These things are RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU and you CAN'T SEE IT!!!???? You're IN the entertainment industry, for pete's sake, you have to see it everyday!!
Or, are you a Wussy-poopie? one of those men who decrys (rightfuly) violence against women while on the other hand (wrongfuly) ignoring and even ENJOYING violence against men.
I have a challenge for Mr. Stewart and anyone else who says; "There's too much violence against women in the media". Watch just ONE night of TV, just ONE night. and literaly TALLY the number of violent acts commited against women as opposed to the number commited against men. I GUARANTEE the number of violent acts commited on men wil FAR, FAR out weigh those against women. Also note the savagery and sadisticness of the violence. Note how the violence is staged. Again I guarantee that 9 times out of 10 the violence against a female will be staged as tragic but the violence against a male will be portrayed as either FUNNY or SEXUAL or sadistic!
Mr. Stewart, I AM sorry for any emotional wounds you might have. I think you are a fine actor. But DAMN it, see things in PERSPECTIVE! not through the Hollywood view of reality. STUDY the statistics and CHALLENGE the stats given by the press.
I too saw family violence..., But it was NOT male on female. And that is all I'm comfortable saying about my expirence.
Sorry, but when ever I hear that phrase; "There's too much violence against women in the media". It makes my blood BOIL.
WHAT violence against women in the media? It hardly exists, especialy when compared to the violence seen agains MEN!
Where's my brick wall? I need to go bang my head against it, again.
GEEZE!!
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know Thundercloud, I have attended at least one pow-wow per year and 3 or 4 sweat lodges per year for over a decade now. The guy who conducts the sweat lodges has done the sun dance twice. He makes me very humble. Here is someone who really turned his life around by his own spiritual strength. He has invited me to do the sun dance, which is something I would be very proud to bear the scars of and to actually wear an eagle whistle before I die. But there is one of the conditions that I know in my heart I could never live up to. What has been done to me and to other men I know in the name of "the world's most noble cause" makes me furiously angry....I KNOW that I could not go a whole month without feeling anger. To all of those magnificent men who bear those scars and wear that whistle....you are much better men than I.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
by Anonymous User on 08:20 AM March 12th, 2004 EST (#7)
|
|
|
|
|
Maus.
Thank you.
The sun dance, though not performed by the people of my tribe, (generaly) is indeed a very sacred rite. It can be extreamly painful but the results can be extreamly rewarding.
It will be a wonderful expirience for you.
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
by Anonymous User on 01:20 AM March 12th, 2004 EST (#4)
|
|
|
|
|
Die Hard. The Rock. Lethal Weapon. The list goes on and on. Male victims galore. Warren Farrell stated in "The Myth of Male Power" that 97% of all deaths in the movies occur to men. I do not know if that figure is accurate, but does anyone even BOTHER to ask about MEN?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Not to mention that most female deaths are seen as "tragic" while male deaths are either glorified as "justice," or passed over as collateral damage.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
by Anonymous User on 08:22 AM March 12th, 2004 EST (#8)
|
|
|
|
|
tulkas,
Good to see you back!
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
by Anonymous User on 01:46 PM March 12th, 2004 EST (#10)
|
|
|
|
|
By the way, I just remembered something!
In one episode of "Star trek T.N.G." Patrick Stewart's charater 'Picard' actually gets into a fight with a female character. They go at it pretty good, too. a real knock down, drag out, sort of thing.
I wonder where his "sensabilities" on "violence against women" were then.
Or did the pay check he had waved in his face make him less "sensable".
Sorry, I generaly like Stewart but he just really p!$$ed me off, with this.
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I am a Star Trek fan, but TNG never really caught my attention. I don't know that many episodes.
My point being, nice one on throwing his past actions into his face.
Steven
Guerilla Gender Warfare is just Hate Speech in polite text
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Here's another question, for anyone who might have a credible answer: of all the people killed by women in the movies, what percentage of them are men? Women? A follow-up, Congresswoman, if you don't mind... Why the disparity?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Thundercloud wrote -
"Have you seen the show "24"? where a man is bound and gagged NAKED as a tazer is used on him including his GENITALS? I'll give you 6 years of my salary if you can point to even ONE example of this sort of thing being done to a FEMALE."
In the 1993 indie film "Boxing Helena," a male surgeon kidnaps and progressively truncates the body of his female victim through a series of progressive amputations of her arms and legs, until she is merely a human trunk on a pedestal.
Interestingly the movie was written and directed by a woman, Jennifer Chambers Lynch, the daughter of the quirky director David Lynch, of "Twin Peaks" fame.
An especially perverse bit in the plot is that the female victim (Sherylnn Fenn) is complicit in the destruction of her body, and maintains her bitchy persona as she's whittled down to a stub of her former self.
It's a sicko cult classic, and not one I necessarily endorse as "must-see" viewing, even for the die-hard misogynists on this site.
But, as for your challenge T-Cloud....
I'd prefer a cashier's check for the full amount.
However, I am willing to forgive the debt if you promise to keep posting regularly on MensActivism.
Always enjoy your perspectives!
"It's a terrible thing ... living in fear."
- Roy: hunted replicant, Blade Runner
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
by Anonymous User on 03:13 PM March 13th, 2004 EST (#31)
|
|
|
|
|
Well I was talking about examples from this century, but I should have been more specific.
As far as my debt being forgiven as long as I post here, I'll keep at it as long as My computer holds out.
They REALLY made a movie like that?!?
Yuck!
I always had a bit of a thing for Sherylnn Fenn.
Yeah, when women complain about movies like that, I'm generaly sympathetic to them, because I can relate. GHASTLY stuff that "Boxing Helena".
I'd heared of it, but I thought it was a movie about a female boxing champ...!
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Media images encourage violence against men far more, glorifying those who take the law into their own hands and ridiculing those who believe in law and order.
As a victim of violence at home, in school and in society in general, even as adult authorities simply ignored or ridiculed me when such would never have been permitted against women; the simple message was that justice or security lies solely in taking the law into your own hands.
Under such a mindset, the notion that women are to be exempted from such treatment but considered otherwise equal, places them in a superior category to men.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
by Anonymous User on 01:11 PM March 12th, 2004 EST (#9)
|
|
|
|
|
If so maybe we should think about makeing a movie about a man who's abused by his wife she divorces him and she gets custody of the kids even thoush she's violent. The courts (as usual) won't listen to the man and so he takes martial arts and goes and beats up his ex (oh and he ties her up and kicks her in the crotch, too)and takes the kids away to a forien country to be with them.
Hey, what's good for the gander is good for the goose.
Of course, all you'll hear is how anti-female the film is.
You know like all the critisisms about "Charlie's Angels" and "Enough" being anti-male.
Oh, no wait no one DID critisize them for that DID they?
Well, like I said Gander\Goose.
Thundercloud.
"HJoka hey!"
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I also have a big problem with how the media treats the issues of male and female violence but my take on it is a slightly differant one.
In my view the problem isnt the display of violence whether its Lethal Weapon and Die Hard or John Wayne and Clint Eastwood.My problem is with the lie that has been so blindly accepted and is now so heavily promoted in programs and movies such as dark angel,charlie's angel's,tomb raider,amazon,relic hunter,kill bill,sheena,xena warrior princess,v.i.p,striperella,star trek,star gate,far scape,buffy,witchblade,star hunter,alias and dozens of others.These programs and their producers have all accepted and now continually promote the notion of the female warrior ,a delusion that is now so pervasive that no other approach is allowed.So my problem isnt with the violence when a women is shown beating up a man its that she is shown as "capable" of beating up a man.
There are countless examples of the ludicrous extremes to which this "new truth" is being taken by all media, from the obvious physical victories over men that these programs constantly portray to the way in which all husbands are shown jumping through hoops at the mere thought of female displeasure.This is the ultimate insult and that is precisely how it was intended.
The social and political power that feminism has gained over the decades has now become an end in itself and the clearest example of this power is the ability to force a society to accept,digest and then to promote an ideology that at its very core it knows to be untrue.The clearest the most obvious the most fundamental differances in the genders is our physical make up and yet we are being told we cannot aknowledge that,and more than that, we are being told that the new reality is an inverted one.It is women who are the warriors the soldiers the fire fighters the policemen the protecters the aggressor's the defenders,evolution has not spent the last 4 million years designing men to meet those roles its been designing women for them.So we must ignore the fossil records, the archeology, and the ten thousand years of recorded history as well as our own direct immediate experiance of life all because women have a childs notion of what the word equality means.
"All you fascists bound to lose" - Woody Guthrie
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
by Anonymous User on 03:13 PM March 12th, 2004 EST (#13)
|
|
|
|
|
Cain.
I agree with your take on the subject, too.
Both are right.
Thundercloud
"Hoka hey!"
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Nicely written Cain.
Steven
Guerilla Gender Warfare is just Hate Speech in polite text
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
by Anonymous User on 06:27 PM March 12th, 2004 EST (#16)
|
|
|
|
|
There have been some women fighters throughout history. But I don't believe many of them were direct hand-to-hand or sword-to-sword fighters. I heard that Mongol women fought, but they used bows and arrows and rode on horseback, like other Mongol fighters. There was some all-woman army in colonial Africa in the 19th century, but they used guns and were vicious psychotics. I think that group was largely destroyed by the French army.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
When the nationl socialists first came to power in 1930's Germany, one of the first thimgs Hitler did was send teams of archaeologists out to find "evidence" that would link Germany to its Mythical past and justify its invasion of neighboring countries.And not surprisingly thats exactly what the archaeologists found.
I myself have seen a number of examples of recent reports of female warriors being discovered, and the more deeply entrenched feminism becomes the more frequent these discoveries get.And whats most interesting is that all of these "discoveries" hinge not on evidence but on interpretation.A female found burried with clear honours,its unclear as to why she was given these honours but she was a member of the arena "guild" .Earlier in the report it was stated that guild included Gladiators,Performers and Prostitutes.They had no clear evidence as to what she did other than the fact that she was an honoured guild member so the decleration of the report was that she was a Gladiator.Another report about an entire society uncovered in England where all the female members were buried as warriors and all the male's were buried with typically female instruments such as needle and thread.When asked about his remarkable discovery the spitting hissing director of the dig responds with the appropriate amount of indignation "not all warriors were men" .So the logic we are expected to accept in this instance is that all of this communities smallest weakest and least aggressive members were chosen for the jobs that required the most size,strength and aggression and the members of this community that were the largest strongest and most aggressive were being held back to attend to the jobs that required the least amount of size strength and aggression.This kind of rational approach to the establishment of social order must be the reason humanity has survived for so long.
The only credible examples of women in the military i could find on the web come from the 20th century when modern states began incorporating female units into their standing armies.The other historical examples are examples of misrepresented history in much the same way as the Boudicca legend.Boudicca was a female Celtic Chieftain at a time when a number of Celtic tribes came together and revolted against the Roman occupation of Britain.The only written record we have of these events comes to us from the Annals of Tacitus in which Boudicca is described as riding a chariot bearing her daughters amongst the troops before the battle, both Boudicca and her daughters were described as defiled by the Roman troops and so would have served as a rallying cry for the army.The only other mention of women in connection with the revolt comes from a description of wild haired females dancing around the troops wearing mourning clothes and carrying torches while chanting.And even though there is no mention of Boudicca or her daughters or any of the women being in combat all of them have been described as "warriors" ever since.
I also did find one mention of female warriors in mongol society and ill just quote the page directly.
" In the following paragraphs, we will take a look at the history of women warriors in Asia. Perhaps some portraits will not be palatable to the typical Western male with low self-esteem looking for an Oriental girlfriend/wife who argues less than "Western women" and who listens adoringly to his babble".
" Khutulun, daughter of a brother of Kublai Khan, was a legendary soldier. Her father held the Central Asian khanate while Kublai ruled from China. She was without dispute her father's best warrior. It was said that Khutulun would ride into enemy ranks and pluck out a captive as easily as a hawk picks out a chicken. No man had ever bested Khutulun in a fight. A Mongol prince who came to ask for her hand was beaten by Khutulun in a public wrestling match. Like Urduja of the Philippines, she never married".
So as you can see Khutulun wasnt just a warrior she was the greatest warrior of her age.And i dont think its a typo when she is described as "legendary"
"All you fascists bound to lose" - Woody Guthrie
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
by Anonymous User on 12:34 PM March 13th, 2004 EST (#22)
|
|
|
|
|
On this site, we all agree that women are violent as any man*, despite the myth that they are not, correct? It's not that hard of a stretch to believe women would participate in wars. However, movies depict women defeating men with their bare hands. That seems almost impossible (particularly for the light-weight, non-muscular women that play these roles). Anyone who uses a weapon automatically has a good chance of killing or maiming their opponent; it's even easier with a gun.
I think a good question is why feminists care that women fought in wars. If wars are a result of the Patriarchy, then they should not celebrate the fact that women fought in wars.
*I did hear some accounts from various sources over the years that women are way more vicious then men are.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
What ticks me off, as a military member is that since so many of these feminists "Xena-phytes" think that women are SO warrior-like that they don't push for women to be GROUND TROOPS in TODAY's military.
I know this will sound glib, but I just wonder if this isn't some lesbian erotic fantasy that got out of hand.
Steven
Guerilla Gender Warfare is just Hate Speech in polite text
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
It's pretty clear that the emergence of the female "warrior" in movies is directly the result of the successful assault that feminism has waged upon our culture for the past forty-plus years.
Think about the roles of women heroines in Hollywood films of the 30's, 40's, 50's... not so long ago women were depicted as actually feminine... as well as smart, spunky, honorable, and non-lethal to men.
What has appeared recently is the icon of the erotic, aggressive, violent female...
You don't have to read much Freud or (better) Jung to conclude that these cinema images are a projection of the mass social ambivalence about
the conflicting representations of the feminine.
Today, Hollywood is saying to men... women can love you... or KILL you...
And, truth be told, they can be utterly indifferent as to the choice.
Man, where is the new Katherine Hepburn when we need her?
I nominate Scarlet Johannsen... go see "The Girl with the Pearl Earring" and "Lost in Translation."
Formidable. Desirable. And no need to be a comic book fem-warrior joke. A woman of substance...
"It's a terrible thing ... living in fear."
- Roy: hunted replicant, Blade Runner
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Once again we are touching on the ludicrous misunderstanding on the part of feminists as to the real nature of a "strong female".
In the simple minded reasoning of early feminism strength equaled male and if a female isnt shown as "physically strong" as a male then that must mean she is being depicted as weak.
Early film in the absence of feminist pressure depicted women honestly,they understood that strength was expressed very differantly in men and in women.And so we had not only Katherine Hepburn but also Barbara Stanwyk,Betty Davis,Myrna Loy,Marlene Dietrich,Greta Garbo,Joan Crawford,Ava Gardner,Maureen O'Hara and a whole host of others.
I'll also second your vote for "Lost in Translation".I was planning to avoid "The Girl with the Pearl Earring" as i had heard the script which was written by a women gave credit for some of Vermeer's compositions to the girl,when in fact almost nothing is known about his life.Did i get that wrong ?
"All you fascists bound to lose" - Woody Guthrie
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Formidable. Desirable. And no need to be a comic book fem-warrior joke. A woman of substance...
Ever seen Patricia O'Neal in "In Harm's Way"?
...
I recently came across some of Nietzsche's comments on women, one of which is:
The true man wants two things: danger and play. For that reason he wants woman, as the most dangerous plaything.
I read that to my girlfriend, who got quite a kick out of it. I wonder if it might not be used as a litmus test for any woman a man is considering a relationship with.
If she takes exception to being thought dangerous, then she'll be all too ready to play the powerless victim and blame everything on you.
If she objects to being thought a plaything, then she's probably no fun.
If she objects to both, she's a feminist.
Larry
ADULT: What you are once you've run out of excuses.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
One of my favorite Nietzsche quotes is:
" Morality is the best of all devices for leading mankind by the nose "
And when you are in firm control of the very definitions of morality as feminism is ,the world is lead easily.Your enemies and critics are dismissed simply for being your enemies and critics.This is a position of privilege that the world has not seen since Luther launched his reformation.
"All you fascists bound to lose" - Woody Guthrie
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
As I understand it, only 37 paintings are attributed to Vermeer.
None have been validated as having been painted by a female masquerading as his hand.
"The Girl with the Pearl Earring" is a subtle masterpiece, in my humble opinion, if only because the film's heroine establishes her character merely through her visual presence.
Scarlet Johannsen speaks perhaps fifteen lines in the entire movie, yet she is luminescent throughout, much like the light in Vermeer's extraordinary works.
It is a film about the display of one extraordinary, demure, intelligent woman, and the camera's delight in her appearances.
Not a car chase in sight, no explosions, no gratuitous sex scenes...
For many, a yawn.
But it's worth the price of admission just to see the "actual" Vermeer painting in the final three minutes of the movie.
"It's a terrible thing ... living in fear."
- Roy: hunted replicant, Blade Runner
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
It was a review of Eberts that i had seen.One of the reasons he was so enthusiastic was that in his opinion the female character was shown as more than the traditional "object" because she suggested changes in composition to the work she appeared in.
It was a film i had wanted to see and one i had avoided because of that object remark.Ill definately check it out.
"All you fascists bound to lose" - Woody Guthrie
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Im not sure about the rest of the men on this site but i will say for the record that i dont agree.Women are not as violent as men.And thats because women are'nt men.We both have differant approaches to violence just as we have differant approaches to most things in life.Now i am going to assume that you understand that does not mean women are incapable of violent acts because of course we all are.Now as to wether or not women are more "vicious" considering the state of female politics i would certainly agree that women are more childish,petty,vindictive and far more willing to impose suffering on others for almost any supposed slight,and if thats what you mean by "vicious" then i would agree.
As to wether or not women historically played a military role is not an issue of "belief" and its not something that can be determined by "streching".In fact feminists for years have been "streching" the truth in order to cultivate "belief".Eleanor of Aquitane was a warrior queen because she rode along with her husband on a crusade.A Persian sultan hired female bodyguards when in fact he kept female attendants.The Amazons of legend are real because we found two bodies buried beneath the russian steppe both interred with bows,and since we cant positively identify the gender they must be women and the Amazons must be real.
The basic make up of any society is determined by gender,none of us is born as judge or teacher or cook or thief but we are all born as men and women.And as men and women are insticts direct us towards the roles we have been designed for.The last 30 years of pc feminism has told us that we can not aknowledge that and that to say it openly is an act of hate.This sort of constant social and political pressure has an effect on us all,and its the sort of an effect that is most keenly felt in the halls of academia where we find the very people given the responsibility for interpreting and now re-interpreting our past.And they are all keenly aware that the interpretation of the past has its effect on the future.
Feminists are using this academic leverage to re-define women as warriors simply because it's the most obvious and the most central of male roles.As i pointed out earlier the ultimate form of political and social power is the ability to convince a society to accept and then promote ideas that it nows to be untrue.And if you can convince society to accept one of these notions while at the same time demean and diminish your chosen enemy,then this is powers ultimate expression.
"All you fascists bound to lose" - Woody Guthrie
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
by Anonymous User on 11:07 PM March 13th, 2004 EST (#35)
|
|
|
|
|
I guess this all discussion depends on what we are trying to say.
Well, I'm pretty sure that in every major empire, women played almost no role in direct combat roles (although they may have been involved in secondary roles, such as medics/nurses, but I'm not sure). There may have been some smaller kingdoms or tribes in which women were soldiers, but these seem few and far apart.
I'd guess that in all the battles ever fought in the history of the world, women only ever fought in something less than 0.05% of them.
However, I think it's important to note that women definitely have an affect on societies. This belief of mine isn't because of any altruistic reasons, but because feminists seem to love the perpetuate the myth that women were oppressed and had no power throughout history. And they use this myth to gain power for themselves in the present.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yes your absolutely right women have always had an effect on society,in fact i argue that the moral and social order of every society is determined by women and men fill the role of stewards,responsible for the moral and social institutions that are erected to reflect the female ideals.
"All you fascists bound to lose" - Woody Guthrie
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
by Anonymous User on 01:32 PM March 14th, 2004 EST (#42)
|
|
|
|
|
I agree.
However, What has happened to women in the last century or so to make them the way so many have become, now.
I do not see any where in history where women have ever before tried to rise up, if you will and litteraly DESTROY men, as they seem to be trying (and succeeding) to do now.
Do they not see what would happen if one half of the population is desimated?
I have lived my life dealing with prejiduce, based on ethnicity. But I can tell you that the hate I have expireinced for being Indian PALES compared to the hate I see, hear and feel comeing from women against men.
I have literaly NEVER seen anything like it.
And all the stereotypeing aside, just what is TRUELY at the root of contemporairy women's vitriolic hate for men?
Again, I have NEVER witnessed hate quite like this before.
Maybe I don't get out enough, I don't know.
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Your right,history doesnt provide us with examples of female "hate" but it does provide us with numerous examples of organized "hate".I put the word hate in quotation marks here because i feel we are actually dealing with something else.What we are really dealing with here is the logic of power and when power reaches a level of unquestioned acceptance and reserves for itself the right to define morallity it becomes unassailable.And when that form of power is exercised the end result is always "oppression" which is why we use words like hate to describe it.
"This is a position of privilege that the world has not seen since Luther launched his reformation" when i made that point i was trying to draw a direct link between feminism and the unquestioned priveleged position of the catholic church.Which provides us with the answer to the question,when have we ever seen its like before,well we saw it in the Vatican.And its the logic of this form of "moral" power that we are dealing with,not nessasarily gender.However,and this is a big however,it could be argued that the power of the church was in fact female power or at the very least "the female form" of power.Since the logic and moral posture of the church reflects more of a female ethic than a male one.
"All you fascists bound to lose" - Woody Guthrie
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Earlier up this thread, Ray asked -- "When are we going to have separate legal systems for men and women?"
In truth, the current anti-male discriminatory legal apparatus is just that.
Two systems of injustice.
One in which women are presumed innocent, regardless of evidence. (Rape-shield laws being the worst example of this; followed by domestic violence courts; and then anything involving the anti-Family Courts... divorce, custody, etc.)
One presuming the man is guilty unless proven (against all odds and lack of due process) innocent.
All men everywhere need to grasp that in today's legal climate, they enter court already convicted -- of being born male.
And any given female's testimony will carry greater weight than anything a man might state.
Judges and lawyers are terrified of being targeted by the powerful feminazi lobbies, if they should be perceived as "soft" on any issues related to women's victimization.
It's a scam, an extortion racket, and a mass crime perpetrated in the full light of day.
Men have not even begun to understand how they have been swindled... and how their personal liberty has already been ransomed to the feminist thugs.
It will require many more years of tyranny and carnage before the general level of awareness rises to a level forcing change.
Until then guys, be "real nice" to the XY chromosome overlords....
"It's a terrible thing ... living in fear."
- Roy: hunted replicant, Blade Runner
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
by Anonymous User on 02:32 AM March 15th, 2004 EST (#47)
|
|
|
|
|
"Men have not even begun to understand how they have been swindled... and how their personal liberty has already been ransomed to the feminist thugs.
It will require many more years of tyranny and carnage before the general level of awareness rises to a level forcing change.'"
I'm sad to say that's my perception too, but I hope that someway, miraculously or otherwise, we're wrong.
Ray
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
"Men have not even begun to understand how they have been swindled... and how their personal liberty has already been ransomed to the feminist thugs"
"It will require many more years of tyranny and carnage before the general level of awareness rises to a level forcing change"
Or instead of waiting for critical mass we just create it.Men do understand the extent of the inequality thats been erected because they live under the thumb of it,and you see quiet murmurs of complaint all around us.The problem isnt the lack of understanding but the lack of organization and action.Single murmuring voices are rarely heard even when there are millions.But a hundred voices speaking together cannot be ignored.
Societies are not guided by reason or truth but by power and we are not involved in a debate but a struggle.We can not hope to convince feminists or the societies they hold hostage to see reason,our only option is to challenge their power by re-introducing our own.
Thats what the initiative at the end of this thread is about.Again i invite both of you as well as every other member of this board over to the Mens hour forum where i have started a thread so that we can begin to develop strategies that will lead to some form of organized action.Its a simple beginning but then again "Every journey begins with a .........."
"All you fascists bound to lose" - Woody Guthrie
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
by Anonymous User on 08:59 PM March 12th, 2004 EST (#17)
|
|
|
|
|
"The social and political power that feminism has gained over the decades has now become an end in itself and the clearest example of this power is the ability to force a society to accept,digest and then to promote an ideology that at its very core it knows to be untrue."
"...she is shown as "capable" of beating up a man."
"This is the ultimate insult and that is precisely how it was intended."
In our society any depiction of violence against a woman by a man is deplored, criminalized, or punished as the most abhorrent of crimes, while any violence against a man by a woman is excused, glorified rewarded, and justified, according to the guidelines and parameters set up by the domestic violence industry. It is automatically assumed by the domestic violence industry that men are by their history, through the “legend of the privileged patriarchy,” empowered with abusive power and control over women. Women, then are seen as automatically victims who are under the abuse and controlling power of "the patriarchy." This is what our taxpayer funded women’s studies programs teach on hundreds of college campuses, and there are no opposing, dissenting, or balancing opinions even permitted to be uttered. Our Colleges are set up so that even this opposing viewpoint would be considered as: politically incorrect, anti-woman, harassing, discriminatory and hateful against women.
Therefore, since a man "automatically" has power and control under the theory of the privileged patriarchy, if a woman hits a man and hurts him badly it is seen as a defensive behavior. It is seen as empowering and glorious for that woman. Yet, if a man where to hurt a female using exactly the same behavior, it would be seen as horrific, brutish, despicable and worthy of the man's death or even harsher punishment (at least on film). The law is not far behind Hollywood in it's harsh treatment of men.
For anyone in Hollywood to paint such a dishonest picture (as is being done by Hollywood in this violence against women campaign), it is not only hypocritical, it is down right criminal, given the abuse that men endure and the privilege to commit violence against men that women have. It is nothing less than hate crime against men!
Ironically, the attitude of the gender feminist movement is such, that if a man complains about the domestic violence committed against him by a woman, he is treated with disrespect and insults. He is called a “wussie” or some other patronizing and demeaning term.
The gender feminist movement and domestic violence industry go to no end to antagonize, brutalized, insult, and demean men (many ignorant dupes in Hollywood go right along with them). The gender feminist movement and the domestic violence industry cruelly poke at men with their hatred like the bullies they are. They instigate violence against men without end, and if they get a reaction, if some poor battered man is tortured beyond endurance, and ever uses his full force, his fists, on the source of his misery and pain, the sight is not a pretty one to behold. The woman is no match for the man as the Hollywood lie pretends, and she discovers the devastating effect of the foot-pounds of force contained in that man’s blows. The male victim is immediately denied all rationale resulting from the provocation leading up to his behavior with b.s. like "There's No Excuse for Domestic Violence." In such a case the absence of a “battered man syndrome” defense is nothing less than a brutal hate crime committed by the gender feminist domestic violence industry and their ilk.
Either way it’s a win/win situation for the gender feminist domestic violence industry. On the one hand it is satisfying without end for them to harass, insult, antagonize, persecute, and generally defile all manner of heterosexual masculinity. On the other hand, any resulting documentable anger from any male is used to fuel the statistics that fuel and fund the gender feminist domestic violence industry. It is an industry, insidious beyond belief, but it is just that vile. It is just that abhorrent of a pseudo-science.
There is no truer word to describe all the work of the domestic violence industry than evil, because it works so hatefully hard to destroy the lives of men and women with lies, and because it causes more domestic violence than it stops. Anyone that supports such evil... Well, you can draw your own conclusions about that.
Sincerely, Ray
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Political power and the ability to effect real change can only come about as a result of consensus.Consensus that must be built up,at least in our world,through the media.And i honestly beleive that the mens movement has the opportunity to begin building that consensus NOW!
I dont have an awfull lot of respect for marketers but they have handed the mens movement a giant gift in the form of this new emerging concept of the "Nascar Dad" and like it or not when marketers speak the media and the polititians listen.Now couple that with the fact that networks have been desperately trying to figure out why they've been losing male viewers by the truck full for over a decade and i think we have gone along way to explaining why Viacom-CBS has gone out of their way to setup SpikeTV "The first network for men"
This whole situation presents us with the oppurtunity to influence an industry that is already telling us through their actions that they are primed to listen,and thereby begin to start building the consensus that we need.
I think we need to single out groups like SpikeTv and see if we cant get them to jump through a few hoops.Simply so that we can get the industries attention and get them use to the idea of listening to us again.
What do you say guys ?
"All you fascists bound to lose" - Woody Guthrie
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
by Anonymous User on 08:00 AM March 13th, 2004 EST (#20)
|
|
|
|
|
"SpikeTV 'The first network for men'"
In my opinion, I see Spike TV more as the traditional stereotype of what society thinks man's role is. I see many of the stereotypical violent movies showing men expendable and disposable.
The truth is Guys love their wives, love their children, love their families, etc. Where is the building up, family supportive programming, or have men become such a generation of adrenaline action junkies that our fates are forever sealed with the garbage that Hollywood and the networks chose to feed us? I like action and adventure as much as the next guy, but the over the top gratuitous violence cooked up by "Hollywood" for decades and decades is demeaning in the grotesqueness of it carnage as it tears, rips, burns, explodes, shoots, and otherwise destroys male bodies.
The programming on Spike TV appears to me to do more to reinforce the stereotype that women's studies alleges against men. They take those broadcast images and use that to bash all men, along with the select sensational male violence the see regularly on the news. They use that to write propaganda to initiate more laws against men.
If Spike TV were really about men, were really for men, I think we would see Warren Farrell, Marc Angelucci, Glenn Sacks, Tom Williamson, and other leaders of the men's movement with a show airing the issues that men face in our society. They would be enumerating the injustices and outrages that men are subjected to. Until we see such a TV show daily on Spike or some other channel, men will continue to live in an oppressive, jack boot, gender feminist society. They will lie in the gutter with the boot heel on there collective throats. I say, "It is time to chew off the jack boot of the oppressors (figuratively), free ourselves, and stand up." That is much easier said than done considering that men are so ignorant of the systematic prejudice and oppression that society considers their lot in life.
Oh yea, a name for the show could be “Roles for Men’s Lives: The Challenges, Rewards and Shortcomings of Being a Modern Male” The topics are endless: Fireman, Plumber, Deadbeat Dad, Stay at Home Dad, Wallet, Cannon Fodder, TV buffoon, Punching bag, Test Dummy, Scientist, Engineer, HouseHusband, etc.
Ray
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I personally dont have a problem with violence per se, but as i said i do have a problem with the way it is used to reinforce ideology.And i definately have a problem with the industry as a whole.
I agree completely that SpikeTv is nothing more than an additional venue for the same type of PC nonsense found on network television,but of course they are run by Viacom-CBS and thats enough to explain that.
I also think we can begin to make a real differance by targeting SpikeTv en masse and by extension Viacom-CBS and simply get them use to the notion of listening.This is precisely what they have set themselves up for,by targeting us as their audience they have given us the biggest opening into that industry that we have had for 30 years.And 40 or 50 emails would go a long way to establishing our presence.Its time to make them jump boys!!
"All you fascists bound to lose" - Woody Guthrie
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
by Anonymous User on 02:34 PM March 13th, 2004 EST (#26)
|
|
|
|
|
Not too long ago day time TV was loseing female viewers like crazy.
So what were the networks reaction?
They started polling women to see why they were not watching.
The reason that women were watching in fewer numbers was primarily because, as they said;"there were too many "rape scenerios" in soap operas and the female characters too often "fell in love with their rapists""
To me that is a good reason to not watch daytime TV, if you are a woman. So daytime TV changed. To the best of my knowledge there are few to NO "rape scenes" in daytime TV, any more. Attempted rapes, perhaps but nothing like back in the days.
My point being WHY then, if the media is so conserned about it's dwindeling male viewership don't they, Oh, I don't know, maybe POLL MALES TO SEE WHY THEY AREN'T WATCHING!!!! Just like the polls they did on female viewers?
You'd think that they would think of that, already.
Well, if they ever poll Me, I'm going to give them an earfull they won't soon forget.
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I suggest we take it upon ourselves to do a poll of our own then just send them the results.
"All you fascists bound to lose" - Woody Guthrie
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
by Anonymous User on 03:19 PM March 13th, 2004 EST (#32)
|
|
|
|
|
Cain.
Yes, good idea.
If we wait for them to do it, it will never happen.
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Spike TV, and I am not an ardent watcher, plays "acceptable" men's programming. "Guy" movies, cartoons, reruns of some shows .... but nothing controversial or "questionable".
Let's contrast this to LIFETIME. They cover women's issues, promote women's advocacy, show women as victims (but always who overcome thier problems), and bring serious issues to the table.
I agree with the letter writing campaign. When I get back from training I am gonna suggest a post for Men's Activism, MND, and SYG and E-mail Glenn Sacks and see if we can't get a letter writing campaign to Spike TV. Why shouldn't legitimate men's problems be brought out of the closet and into the light.
Sure, it'll be embarressing to feminists to have their lies exposed, sure it'll be embarressing to politicians to have thier misandric legislation exposed, and sure, it'll shock a lot of men to be shown the proof that men's hard work can be wiped out on an woman's whim or displeasure. Dinosaur mysogynists were embarressed when feminists exposed their sexism .... and it was good. Politicians who got named for not caring about women's issues swung into action. And women who were abused got a voice. Now ... gentlemen, it should be our turn.
I'll ask for a SPIKE TV specific post and letter writing campaign when I get back on the 21st of March. Anyone else think this is an idea whose time has come?
Steven
Guerilla Gender Warfare is just Hate Speech in polite text
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I agree, Ray--Spike TV is a huge disappointment. I thought we were going to get something like Lifetime for Men...shows bringing up the issues that men face (abuse, discrimination, health issues), but instead, it's The Man Show 24/7, reinforcing the stereotypes about what men care about.
bg
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
After the recent success of the anti-boys tee shirt campaign against Toad Goldman's D&G Co. ("Boys Are Stupid: Throw Rocks at Them!") - I believe Glenn Sacks would be receptive to a new campaign that would take a pro-active focus.
It's one thing to expose all the obvious injustices against men, and Glenn has done a good job at this.
The next phase has to be to define a positive approach for what men are seeking in this misandrist culture.
"Spike TV" is a joke. A marketing ploy.
It's time for real CONTENT and dimensional stories about the situations men face in today's anti-male society.
There is no lack of such content, and experts to deliver it.
All that is missing is the right team of intelligent "suits" in the broadcast industry to champion such a venture.
Maybe Mel Gibson could bankroll this experiment?
I hear he's into truth-telling about the crucifixion of men....
"It's a terrible thing ... living in fear."
- Roy: hunted replicant, Blade Runner
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
by Anonymous User on 01:57 PM March 14th, 2004 EST (#43)
|
|
|
|
|
Roy,
Exellent idea!!
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
by Anonymous User on 02:18 PM March 13th, 2004 EST (#25)
|
|
|
|
|
Ray,
You're spot-on on all fronts, here, my freind.
Thundercloud.
"Hoka hey!"
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
The idea of presenting this to Glen Sacks is an good one and one i had not considered when i first brought this up.My notion initially was to begin bringing together a core group of men who were not only willing to debate the issues but also interested in organizing action and developing strategies so that we could begin to take advantage of the openings that the industry is starting to give us.
I would still like to do that.And before this discussion leaves the front page ,i would like to suggest that we take the conversation about SpikeTv to the Mens Hour Forum where we can continue to talk about what it is that we want to do.
"All you fascists bound to lose" - Woody Guthrie
|
|
|
|
|
[an error occurred while processing this directive]
|
