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by Anonymous User on Saturday January 17, @12:08AM EST (#1)
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Great show of initiative, zenpriest - both here at MANN as well as MND.
I don't have time at the moment to attempt to create a website (I'm taking 21 upper division science credits this term), but I do enjoy fitting a little bit of activism in whenever I can. Might I suggest that those who enjoy writing letters (like myself) head over to NCFM national (link is at left of this page) and join the letter-writing campaign? I think it is an excellent way to consolidate the power of the pen in a organized and methodical manner.
Similarly, most of us here have probably noticed the recent successes vis a vis Glenn's assault on David and Goliath, and, as Thomas has mentioned, this is one decisive battle we could really win. If anyone here hasn't jumped on board yet, please do so! This project already has some good momentum behind it, and we should really work to keep it going.
-hobbes
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A long time ago I did a web site. The site is woefully out of date, and a lot of the links are broke, but there is still some good stuff left on it. For what it's worth here is the link:
http://eviltwin.home.att.net/index.htm
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I think it's a good idea. I'd like to know more what you have in mind.
Should I email you at your geocities site?
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I'd like to know more what you have in mind.
Somewhere on Angry Harry's site, he has an essay where he talks about "men at screens" and how he believes they will be the catalyst for men to win the gender war. I wrote my site several years ago for the purpose of articulating a comprehensive alternative explanation of the world to counter feminism's narcissistic and control-obsessed one.
But, a handfull of sites like Backlash, Angry Harry's, MANN, MND, Kitten news, mine, and the few dozen other hard core "men's issues" sites will never accomplish squat until large number of men get stirred into taking some sort of ACTION.
Month after month I watch the news-oriented sites post article after article about atrocity after atrocity and wonder when, if ever, things will get so bad that men stir themselves out of their passive lethargy and actually start to DO something. This is why I am so excited about Glenn Sacks's campaign against d&g, it is the most activist thing I have seen come out of the men's constipation so far.
A million men marching in Washington DC is all well and good, except for the fact that the next day it is over and in 3 months everyone has forgotten about it. The feminidiots have millions of people hammering at us all day every day and unless and until men mobilize a force of somewhat equal strength, they will continue to walk all over us.
There are times when I wonder if sites like MANN, MND, and Harry's don't do more harm than good, by giving men a way to cop out - "let some other guy take care of it, and since Mike, Scott, Harry, and Rod are doing it, I can crack a cold one, grab the remote, and watch 'Everybody loves Raymond' so I have something to bitch about."
Over and over and over again, I hear from guys "Well, I would like to do something, BUT _____________."
One major problem I have seen is that so much of the time, when people talk about "doing something", it is so grandiose that of course it is close to impossible. "Let's get a million men to take a week off work, fly to Washington DC, have a mass demonstration, and that will magically change everything."
First of all, no it won't. Secondly, by making the price of involvement so high, of course most men cannot pay the price to become involved.
What I have in mind for myself, personally, is an enabling role. Hopefully some other web-savvy guys will chime in.
Every man here has stories. Some of the women do too. But, people seem to continue to go places like MND to read the stories that other people have written and see the same old hand full of ideas rehashed over and over.
Gonzo is a great word-warrior, but by himself he can't win the battle if most of the rest of men are sitting on their butts in the stands cheering him on as their champion. Who gives a shit if you don't feel like you can write as forcefully as he does? Take some baby steps, and get better as you go along. Pick up a rock, a table leg, anything and get out there fighting the feminazis with him!
Anyone with opposable thumbs can set up a web site in 10 minutes. Go to Google and type in "free web hosting" and you will find close to 100 sites that will give you free web space with no more advertising than you put up with on MND. They have enough tools that you can cut and paste anything you have written anywhere into a web page.
The web is the ultimate democratic medium - at least until they find a way to silence men here like they have silenced us everywhere else. For god's sake, let's use it while we still can.
If 50 guys would just write 2 article each, that is the same as one dedicated dude writing 100 articles.
This current men's constipation is never going to go anywhere unless and until millions of individual men stop relying on someone else to free them.
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Things are getting better. One of my favorite pieces of activism took place on Amazon.com last year when Barbara Dafoe Whitehead released her book "No Good Men". A significant number of men wrote reviews trashing the book and the Allie McBeal crowd in general. Better yet the reviews were intelligent and told the male side of the story very well. I like to think we sent a message to female authors that the days when they can make a quick buck bashing men are numbered.
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Applause for Zenpriest's initiative and strategic thinking, especially at this moment, in the wake of MND Forum's evident demise.
MANN, MND, NCFM, and other men's sites have confirmed that there is a wealth of authorial talent in the men's movement...
many different voices, writing styles, areas of expertise, compelling personal accounts; in sum, a rich narrative of men's perspectives awaiting the right catalyst to get it all front and center!
The current moment is ripe with opportunity to correct the "silencing" of men's voices that has been such a taken-for-granted assumption of the feminist's forty-year assault.
The "keyboard insurrection," like the "marriage strike," will be another crucial facet of the movement!
Every man who has a vested interest in the future of true gender equality... in reforming the legal system, in healthy relationships, in children's wellbeing, in respect for masculinity... and in the redemption of the feminine...
has a stake in this effort!
(Well, that would pretty much include EVERY man, yes?)
Whether you type with ten fingers or two, get on board now!
"It's a terrible thing ... living in fear."
- Roy: hunted replicant, Blade Runner
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many different voices, writing styles, areas of expertise, compelling personal accounts; in sum, a rich narrative of men's perspectives awaiting the right catalyst to get it all front and center!
Before MND succumbed to Political Correctness and the "reasonable woman" standard declared to be the law of that land, there was a lot of discussion about men writing for "the movement". There was always the unspoken assumption that whatever they wrote had to conform to some editorial standards for whatever site they submitted it to.
It was strange to watch the lace curtain being enforced on men by other men.
"Oh, but you really can't say the Emperor has no clothes, and you sure as hell can't be saying that the asshole is fucking naked!!!"
By controlling the language and the form of expression, they are controlling what can be expressed. Our wanna-be Moses in his "Myth of Male Power" admits to silencing men with double standards - when a woman criticizes men, it is called "empowerment", when a man criticizes women, it is called "misogyny".
However, some men are reaching the point where what women think of them no longer matters in the slightest. Jen's feminist friends can be as offended by what such men write as they want to be, but I think that soon the opinions of such women (or ANY woman) won't matter at all to a great many men.
Here is a great piece of writing - raw, honest, full of mis-spelled words and grammar problems - but a perfect view of the world of a 21 year old post-feminist male.
http://schlausenberg.proboards25.com/index.cgi?boa rd=Articles&action=display&num=1074019301
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Zenpriest wrote --
"It was strange to watch the lace curtain being enforced on men by other men."
Some "gentlemen" accidentally set fire to this previously assumed fire-retardant lace curtain!
They were merely trying to SEE what it concealed...
Now the fire is spreading.
There is an ill-equipped and poorly trained feminist "fire brigade" trying to put it out.
Unfortunately, they did not adequately maintain their fire engines, forgot to keep their tools in proper condition, and neglected to consult the operator's manuals...
All, alas... because of the Evil Patriarchy.
That curtain is soon to be toast!
"It's a terrible thing ... living in fear."
- Roy: hunted replicant, Blade Runner
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by Anonymous User on Saturday January 17, @02:45PM EST (#7)
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That a good summary of the situation but I'd just like to add that I came across sites like Angryharry and Menweb towards the end of 1999. At this time if you were to dare to utter one thing in support of the male in some way you would be in big trouble.
At the time I was scared for my life.
When I get the chance I speak to friends where as before I didn't know who to trust.
I now see many articles in the main press and am always firing off emails to anyone who demeans males.
In my opinion things have really taken off in the last 18 months or so.
word will spread even further.. For example
http://www.bnp.org.uk/news/2004_jan/news_jan18.htm
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Zenman;
Hopefully Mike will be posting my latest rant aboiut the whole D&G thing soon, before Glenn's Show tonight. If not, here's a sneak preview:
Praise the Lord and Pass the Iron
I’m a believer.
Praise the Lord, but I have seen the light! Hallelujah! Can I have an “AMEN!” from the congregation? Gather round, my friends, for your Uncle Gonzo’s “Come to Jesus” meeting.
Once more I have heard from whiny types who sniff at the efforts of Glenn Sacks (http://www.hisside.com/join_his_side_campaign.htm ) to go after David and Goliath T-Shirts. I’ve heard his efforts decried as humorless, whining, and the ever popular “Acting Just Like Feminists.” And I have examined it all, and pronounced myself converted.
You all are absolutely right. I mean, who could fail to see the humor in gouging out the eyeballs of boys, throwing rocks at them, smearing them with feces, and all manner of humiliation. Boys can take it. They’re strong. They need to learn to suck it up and be men, dammit, not little children.
And the rest of their shirts. I mean, just because they have a “Mammy” on them with references to Fried Chicken (http://www.davidandgoliathtees.com/new/lines/imag es/thumbs/1469.gif) doesn’t mean they’re racist. Stereotypes of Chinese laundries aren’t racist either. I swear, some people get upset about the littlest things, do you know what I mean?
How do you call these things bashing? It’s not like someone can really get hurt by having rocks thrown at them – now stones, that is something different. They used to kill people by throwing stones at them. They called it stoning. But rocks? Pshaw.
Dammit, the more I think about it, the madder I get. Don’t you know that objecting to things is un-American? Don’t you know that boycotting things is anti-capitalist – downright Communist?! What kind of Americans are you all? What kind of parents? Neitschze said that whatever doesn’t kill you makes you stronger, and here you are denying your sons the opportunity to be stronger! Why I can think of no better exercise than dodging stones – er, excuse me, I meant rocks – and turds.
Worthless and weak. Are we raising the next generation of pansies, or what?
It’s just good clean fun. And I am a big believer in good clean fun. It is my life’s goal to fill both my life and everyone else’s with a laugh a minute. In fact, I think we need to help David and Goliath out in their good works. The poor guy, Todd Goldman (dgoliath@tampabay.rr.com), who runs the place cannot possibly in one lifetime design and market all the shirts that need to be marketed. So what we can do is to give him that hand up that he needs.
The beauty of his simplistic designs is that anyone with a drawing program and a few minutes can easily do a parody of them. A parody, for those who don’t know, is a perfectly legal form of fair use, so long as you don’t go about selling them or making money off of them. Why, I myself have done such a parody at http://www.geocities.com/ibcpete/dandgparody1.gif , and I have all the artistic talent of a radish. Some people with more talent than I may want to look at that and get inspiration to work on their own takes of parodies on Mr. Goldman’s line of shirts. I’m sure he’d be amused. Heck, I did that with Windows “Paintbrush” in about 15 minutes. Imagine what could be done with a more robust program and some real talent
This is easy enough, but what then, Uncle Gonz? Heh. I’ll tell you. It’s a miracle of modern technology that one can buy a relatively cheap printer, and use special ink and paper to create iron on transfers. By making a design large enough to fit on a T-Shirt, in minutes you can have an attractive shirt that lets everyone have a good clean belly laugh. Hewlett-Packard has a great many products for this, as does Canon and Lexmark.
Some might want to make these designs single color, and put light designs on dark shirts, and dark on light shirts, or some may want to do shirts in full color. A pack of Hane’s T-shirts cost what? $10 for three? Even better – put them on the famous “Wife-Beater” style of shirt for a real hoot! The irony there is profound indeed.
I’m willing to bet that school administrators and even feminists will see at once the humor when your son shows up at school wearing one of these shirts! I can just see them laughing until the tears roll down their eyes, beating the floor in spasms of laughter. And forget the idea that your daughters might somehow be hurt when you dress your sons up smartly in one of these garments of your own making. I’m sure they will feel the love, as you let your boys have their own laughs with images of girls beaten, maimed, killed, lobotomized and otherwise degraded.
How could anyone accuse you of being mean spirited? It’s surely not mean spirited to make such shirts about Boys, or Blacks, or Asians?
Not love your daughters? Perish the thought. One is as capable of loving girls and seeing the yucks in one of these shirts as they are of loving boys and chuckling at one of David and Goliath’s Tees, aren’t they? We’ve already determined that such shirts aren’t intrinsically hateful, haven’t we? No harm, no foul, as they say, right?
What will the schools do? I mean, some hypersensitive school districts which have no sense of humor have already banned these shirts, but for the rest who told you to get over yourself will most assuredly warmly embrace these new shirts as they start getting worn about. I’m sure they would never employ a double standard which might get the news media involved or invite a lawsuit from a parent, would they? Especially in California where you have such noteworthy Men’s Activist attorneys as Marc Angelucci who might get a real kick out of taking such a case. Not that Marc likes pointing out hypocrisy and double standards, he’s just doing a job.
And Todd Goldman, who has already proclaimed long and loudly, and quite publicly I may add, that he has no intention ever to create or run such girl-bashing designs, can hardly complain that his toes are being stepped on, or his property infringed. You’d be parodying him in a market he has no – pardon the pun – designs on.
I mean – where is the harm? It’s already been proclaimed far and wide from the mountaintop that shirts like that are for grins only. And by gum, it’s high time we all had a good laugh over it. I swear, where is your sense of humor? Now if you will all pardon me, I have to go get a crowbar. My tongue seems to be stuck in my cheek.
* Putting the SMACKDOWN on Feminazis since 1989! *
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Zen,
Specifically, I'm wondering what the value is of having lots of individual websites as opposed to focusing membership on sites like MANN or Stand Your Ground.
I personally would like a way to communicate in private with the core of the current leadership. I would like to know who the current core is, how many dedicated core activists there are, and be able to discuss strategy with them.
Core activists would be people who will actually write letters when we decide upon action. I don't know if there are ten or a hundred such people. It seems like activism is sproratic and not well organized.
I would like to see a coordinated effort to identify targets and blast them with a hundred emails and letters like the D&G effort. I saw that as an exercise more than a big breakthrough. It's the realization that we can get results. The D&G victories are largely symbolic, not substantive. We need to identify institutionalized anti-male bias in the mass media, the educational system, the legal system, and in politics. We need to force people to resign over this. We need to force both political parties to reject the feminist agenda to disrupt male success.
It seems like our efforts are still scattered.
Again, I would prefer to discuss this in private. Do you still check your email on geocities?
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Specifically, I'm wondering what the value is of having lots of individual websites as opposed to focusing membership on sites like MANN or Stand Your Ground.
Specifically, the value lies in not having to conform to the individual site owner's version of Political Correctness.
The men's movement needs LOTS of different male voices - not one or two strong voices with a lot of men going "yeah, what he said". No two men's experiences are exactly the same. No two men are in exactly the same stage of shrugging off feminist indoctrination and coming up with their own understanding of what is going on.
There are many respects in which your question disturbs me. I will take it at face value and respond to it in good faith, but there is such a fundamental principle at work here that I am at a bit of a loss to know how to even start explaining it.
There is an old saying "don't put all you eggs in one basket". If something happens to that basket, you are screwed. When you go to invest money, the first thing your broker should tell you about is "diversification."
To me, all it should take is a look at what just happened with MND to answer your question.
THERE IS NO " core of the current leadership". There are a bunch of lone guys out there who got fed up and started fighting back with whatever they had at hand.
This thread is already drifting way off the track that I intended for it. I made it as an offer for any guy who wanted to wade in and get his feet wet, but didn't have the technical savvy to even know how to get started. If nobody wants to...
well, any more questions about why men are in the state they are in?
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please feel free to use the yahoo groups I set up a while ago
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mensactivism/
I will patch you right through as you need approval to join, the point was to keep out trolls so people could vent and discuss strategy without interference. I am also a member of Father4JusticeInternational, which is filled with doers from all over the world. I can pass on contact info for those who wish to find others in their area.
the Biscuit Queen
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I agree. Just keep in mind that not everyone posts everything they do. I write letters in response to nearly every article I read which is slanted, provided I can find the e-mail address to do so. I do not usually come here and tell everyone I have done so. I am involved on many lists and act as a messenger as much as I can, as some of the lists, like F4JInt are apparently closed now. We are planning a protest in VA, which I will get out the info as soon as it is solid. I post every activism project I come across. I sign every petition which comes my way. I am educating my kids, and as many other people who will listen to me.
So yes, I agree we all need to do our part. Let's not assume we are all watching Raymond and bitching.
The Biscuit Queen
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by Anonymous User on Wednesday February 04, @10:37AM EST (#20)
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Good article, - glad I found this site. As I see it, getting men involved is both easier than thought, - but has a serious hurdle too. For starters men aren't basically interested in copying anything like NOW has, or going on TV and whining all over the place, - about everything. If that was going to happen, - it would have happened years ago. I believe that men will (and have) follow a leader almost overnight, - and it can't be a female. All we need is a "non-political" Rush Limbaugh. Someone dedicated to men's issues, and if handled correctly, - the move we want would happen almost overnight, - less than five years probably. There would be no way to stop it.
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Not too long ago I went to a restaurant in town,
a national fast food chain. While I was eating I heard one of the women working the counter repeatedly say "Men are stupid" to the other girls who agreed with her.
I'm the type of person who hates making a scene so I did nothing at the time. When I got home I sent an e-mail to that companies home office describing the incident. I recieved the standard response, (Thank you for telling us etc... etc.).
I don't know how much good it did. I have noticed that I haven't seen that employee working there since. I don't know if I got her fired, but it doesn't matter, that was never my intent. I have also noticed that it seems the manager makes more of an effort to be nice to me since then, but that too could be just my imagination. Two things I can say for certain since I sent that e-mail. I haven't heard anybody say a thing like that since whenever I go eat there, and second, regardless of the results, I'M DAMN GLAD I DID IT! I would encourage everyone to do things like this for just these two reasons. You'll feel better about yourself and it gets results. Thank you.
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Where is david & goliath on your list of companies to boycott?
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Glenn Sacks has announced the next focus in his campaign to get retailers to stop selling products advocating violence against boys. He makes it nearly effortless to send an email to the top 5 corporate officers of Claire's - which has 2,875 retail outlets for d & g's trash. I posted a news link to go on the main page and keep this issue "above the fold" and out of the limbo of "page 2 and beyond", but it was a bit long and I don't know when or if it will show up.
Go to http://www.hisside.com/join_his_side_campaign.htm
and get active.
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