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by Anonymous User on Sunday October 19, @10:19PM EST (#1)
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Hollywood is mainly the media and the media is regonizining this issue and talking about it. The media is a top of the foodchain in this country. They are the ones to tackle this issue. Shows like these don't come around often,we should be thankful for them.
Congress and state legislatures are at the botttom of this foodchain. They are swayed by opinions,polls and surveys conducted by the media,mainly. Politicians are swayed by voters which in this country are female majority. Politicians are scared to piss off voters.
Masc
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by Anonymous User on Sunday October 19, @10:21PM EST (#2)
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You may recall that a little about a year ago paternity fraud legislation got all the way to Gov. Gray Davis' desk and was vetoed by him. NOw he's been vetoed. Hooray!
I wonder if Arnmold will sign it, when it comes to his desk?
Ray
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"I wonder if Arnmold will sign it [anti-paternity fraud legislation], when it comes to his desk?"--Ray
I was wondering about that myself recently. Gov Davis was in the pocket of the feminists. Arnold is less liberal (at least on economic matters) but I don't think he wants to irritate too many female voters. It'll be interesting to see how he handles this issue. Does anyone know if he stated a position on this topic during his campaign?
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by Anonymous User on Monday October 20, @03:01AM EST (#4)
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"Does anyone know if he stated a position on this topic during his campaign?"
Not a word that I know of. The closest I heard was when he said he will represent the needs of everyone and then emphasized, "men and women both." I can see that meaning something good, something bad, or meaning nothing. We'll have to see. But I do believe he'll sign the bill. The real battle will be getting the better of the two bills to pass. The DCSS and the feminists, via Assemblywoman Hannah Beth Jackson, saw that our bill was likely to pass and so they created their own weaker bill to intercept ours, alot like the tobacco industry did. It worked in the Assembly, and when our Senator "pulled" his bill so it would become a two-year bill and revive next year, they did exactly the same with their weaker bill, which shows that they weren't interested at all in passing their bill but only in stopping ours. The California DCSS and their feminist allies (CA NOW and Center for Youth Law) lied and pulled stunts that would suit the lowest scum of the earth. Now both our bill and theirs will revive in 2004 and a whole new battle will take place. One of the two bills is very likely to get through, possibly both. I think Arnold will sign whichever gets to him. The fight will be in getting the better bill through, and we'll expose Assemblywoman Jackson and her scumbag friends (DCSS, CA NOW) as much as possible along the way.
Marc
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Marc, you boys down in LA truly are a source of inspiration for the rest of us. Thanks.
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by Anonymous User on Monday October 20, @01:00PM EST (#6)
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If the legislation fails to pass the blame will fall largely on men. I came to the realization long ago that men are politically expendable because they don't care about these things. And if men don't care, why should politicians? The real reason Gov. Davis vetoed AB 2240 is because there was no political price to be paid for doing so. The fact is that the "Femagogues" are far more organized and politically powerful than the men's groups are. We need to get with the program!!! Let's start with a slogan: How about "PATERNITY FRAUD: THE RAPE THAT WOMEN COMMIT AGAINST MEN"?
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by Anonymous User on Monday October 20, @03:05PM EST (#7)
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The fight will be in getting the better bill through, and we'll expose Assemblywoman Jackson and her scumbag friends (DCSS, CA NOW) as much as possible along the way.
The exposition of Jackson and her corrupt allies has already taken place in the Senate. However, when the same truth was illustrated in the Assembly the liberals stepped forward to save Jackson and the feminist (CA NOW, CFYL, & the DCSS).
Every lie possible, including false allegations, was told to stop SB1030 in the Assembly Committee of Judiciary. Marc is quite correct about this fact.
B.T.W. The fact that the feminist’s organizations were able to get their liable published in the L.A. Times against Arnmold demonstrates their level of power in the media. When we examine the people behind the scenes that were responsible for the lies, we find they were all male-hating feminists. Make no mistake, the lies of sexual assault have just begun. They will tell more lies about Arnold after he takes office. These lies and allegations of sexual assault have only just begun. You can bet the feminista will resort to these lies and become more vocal next year.
Finally, men will start needing to get ALOT more vocal and putting their money were their mouth is. They cannot continue being lazy beer sucking slobs and expect that they will not end up in financial prison or jail.
I for one am not going up against the false allegations of sexual assult that will be leveled at me if there are not 10's of thousands of males and women supporting me next year. Without 100,000 letters of support they can forget about my help. I've done more than enough already.
I've already had enough abuse, false allegations leveled at me, put my work at risk, and found little help from men when it was desperately needed. As far as I'm concerned men can get off their beer drinking apathetic asses or they can go to jail on false allegations like the rest of us.
If men are too stupid to mobilize before it's too late then let them go to jail on their own set of false allegations.
Warble
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by Anonymous User on Monday October 20, @06:54PM EST (#8)
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Question: Are we purposefully misspelling Arnold's name? Arnmold?
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I understand your frustration, Warble. Sometimes it is really hard to feel sorry for the men who are geting destroyed by a system they help perpetuate via apathy/chivalry. It is truly remarkable how so many men have to be put through the wringer themselves before they wake up to the bullshit going on in the courts. Even more remarkable is the number of men who frequent sites like this one, bitch and moan about feminist injustices, and then do absolutely not a god damned thing about it. They won't even write a goddamn letter. They're content just criticizing others for not doing enough.
Well, when they feminist machine comes knockin at their door, maybe they'll wish they had written that letter.
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I missed those shows. I don't tend to care for most network TV and have been up to my ass in alligators as of late.
What was the ending of them like? What was the outcome, the resolution?
I've seen things on paternity fraud before, and far too often does it end with some Oprah or Della Reese type, pursing their lips with their eyes all misty, piously proclaiming that for "the good of the child" the defrauded dad should "suck it up" and "do the right thing" and "Mom should get off scot-free so the child isn't a motherless orphan."
Maybe she gets a stern talking to by a judge, with the solemn promise that if this happens again, (s)he'll wag his or her finger at them for good measure.
Anyone? And if this is how these ended up, isn't it the same old same old? Present the arguments on the Politically incorrect side of the fence as straw men all lined up, and knock them over one by one?
* Putting the SMACKDOWN on Feminazis since 1989! *
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I know personally that if my wife / girlfriend had a child by another man I would not want to be responsible for that for the rest of my life.
It would even be a bigger breach of trust. That is why I told my girlfriend that I am going to be getting a paternity test when we get married and have children. (I am just being responsible)
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by Anonymous User on Tuesday October 21, @09:20AM EST (#12)
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That is sad. I don't mean your choice to have a paternity test, but the fact you feel like you must to protect yourself. Thanks a lot, feminists, you really have made things so much better. I feel so empowered right now. ;-(
Jen
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If you really need to know...
You can get a 'sample' kit, which is basically just a cotton swab that you run on the inside of the cheek and run an individual test for $60, cost you about $120 with two test and fed-ex thrown in. Plenty of companies do it.
(Of course, my state charges $1200 for this same service and refuses to recognize any other service for it. But if you already know the outcome from going the cheaper test -- the other party will get the bill.)
Freedom Is Merely Privilege Extended Unless Enjoyed By One & All.
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by Anonymous User on Tuesday October 21, @08:33PM EST (#17)
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> That is sad. I don't mean your choice to have
> a paternity test, but the fact you feel like
> you must to protect yourself. Thanks a lot,
> feminists, you really have made things so much
> better. I feel so empowered right now. ;-(
> Jen
I hope it doesn't piss you off, because god knows a guy could use a little reassurance in this day and age...
I too have informed my wife of the same.
The other thing, is that although she is on the pill, I still insist on wearing a condom, explicitly because I don't want to be put into a position of "Ooops I did it again" -- Sorry now you're a father, when I am not in a position to be doing this that at this time.
Her mother has admitted to doing the same with respect to my father in law for the conception of my wife's youngest sister (still related to my father in law - so far as we know). At the time of conception; apparently my father in law was led to believe that my mother in law was on the pill, when in fact she was taking fertility drugs.
Very sad to me the way in which some women take men for granted.
The worst part is, I actually respect my mother in law (very independent and strong yeah yeah a feminist) a goodly amount. I was so shocked, because I would have expected more from her.
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by Anonymous User on Wednesday October 22, @08:22AM EST (#24)
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I am not pissed at you at all. I understand why you are so careful, I am disappointed in society that men are forced to be like this. Women who would do these things give the rest of us such a bad name, and the sad thing is that they apparently outnumber us.
The pill is not a safe method for men. There is no way of checking to make sure she is being honest or if she is good about remembering to take it. It just sucks also that the only safe method for men makes it less enjoyable. I really hope the pill for men works out.
Jen
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by Anonymous User on Saturday October 25, @12:57AM EST (#26)
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Thanks, you're a sweetie. The world would be much nicer if there were more women who could be as protective of men as men are expected to be towards women...
Take care, you're a keeper!
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by Anonymous User on Tuesday October 21, @04:05PM EST (#14)
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I know personally that if my wife / girlfriend had a child by another man I would not want to be responsible for that for the rest of my life.
It would even be a bigger breach of trust. That is why I told my girlfriend that I am going to be getting a paternity test when we get married and have children. (I am just being responsible)
Sadly, paternity fraud has been around for hundreds of years and predates feminism. At one time the penalties were quite severe. However, with the advent of feminism has come changes to laws that remove any consequences for paternity fraud on the part of the mother.
Only the males are held responsible and the result is that their natural children do suffer. The ideology of permitting a mother and the state to name any male as the father of a child has solid roots in Stalinism. It is a corrupt communist ideology that was adopted by the free-love generation.
Sadly, many men that I talk with about the topic feel that only "insecure" males would have a paternity test. They also claim that biology doesn't matter and that a male should not care if they are the natural father.
When these same individuals are asked if the mother would care if a child is switched birth if biology would matter they are dumbfounded and typically say, "I don't know what the mother would say." Well to me it is clear that mothers want their natural children.
The same standard should apply to men if men want equal rights with women. Tragically, most men are apathetic on the issue of paternity fraud and many are unwitting victims. They prefer ignorance to the truth; namely, that 30%+ of all women have sexual relations with other men.
No enlighted male would ever accept a child into the home without a paternity test. Getting a paternity test simply makes the male equal with the mother who knows out of a biological necessity that a child is hers.
Warble
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No enlighted male would ever accept a child into the home without a paternity test. Getting a paternity test simply makes the male equal with the mother who knows out of a biological necessity that a child is hers.
Thank you, I know and I know the statistics too, but with the degeneration of society and the way it is now, you can never know.
And also in most States and in Canada you need to prove and protect paternity immediately or you will be responsible for your wifes infidelity.
It is just another method that shows that Women have no responsibility for their actions.
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No enlighted male would ever accept a child into the home without a paternity test. Getting a paternity test simply makes the male equal with the mother who knows out of a biological necessity that a child is hers.
Sometimes it isn't that easy, Warble. Children who aren't genetically yours are still children, and if the mother won't assume responsibility and the father is unknown... Well, between PoP laws (which ought to be expunged from the books!) and other circumstances, sometimes you just have to deal. I think it is essential that men have a choice and exercise it. I'd love to see paternity fraud become a crime without a referent. But sometimes, because of the child who is the other victim, you just have to become a Dad, even if you are not a Father.
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Sometimes it isn't that easy, Warble. Children who aren't genetically yours are still children, and if the mother won't assume responsibility and the father is unknown... Well, between PoP laws (which ought to be expunged from the books!) and other circumstances, sometimes you just have to deal. I think it is essential that men have a choice and exercise it. I'd love to see paternity fraud become a crime without a referent. But sometimes, because of the child who is the other victim, you just have to become a Dad, even if you are not a Father.
No. Oh God, no.
Once you let someone have license to defraud, and to lie, and to get off scot-free for it, any semblance a system of law has to claimng justice becomes a sorry joke. Sorry. The needs of the many outweight the needs of the few - even if they are children.
The laws on paternity frud need to be set up so that if a man exercises his choice to walk away, nobody bats an eye, and instead turns to the woman and says, "See what your lying and cheating have done to your child? You're a Bad Mother."
They also need to be set up so that if a man does decide to go ahead, his legal rights are protected, and he's counted a hero - and society plainly says that "mom" doesn't deserve him.
Until they are that way, it's a sucker's game you're proposing. If so much as one injustice is tolerated in this, it's intolerable.
Children be damned. Real women wouldn't use their children as pawns and tools for their own aggrandizement, and it's high time this be said and recognized as gospel and universal truth for women before we even begin setting down to the table on men.
* Putting the SMACKDOWN on Feminazis since 1989! *
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I say the poster to whom Gonzo was replying to should be the FIRST in line to volunteer to put 20-30% of his/her income to pay for a child that is not theirs. It's not an empty comment. GO AND DO IT. NO?! Why the hell not. Don't hand someone a plate of food and tell them to dig in with both hands while declining such a feast of misery for yourself. You self righteous child in what I assume to be an adult's body. If you think a MAN should step up to the plate and be a man then say something about the women having child after child like a slot machine hitting triple 7's by different fathers. Pick up the tab YOURSELF for 2-3 of them. Bet the woeman thanks you profusely, for about 10 min, and then the first time you miss a payment *(WHICH YOU WOULD HAVE THE **OPTION** OF PAYING) she calls you with tears talking about "her poor babies". Then in about the next month she will sue you over how you have caused damage to her "poor babies". You get the picture. Get a grip dude. If the feast I just painted for you sounds good get a spoon and start paying. Until then learn about how life works.
Damn, obviously another glorious product of our "enlightened" education system of sympathy for all but responsibility for none. (except some OTHER dude you never met).
Nuff said
Peace
Steven
Guerilla Gender Warfare is just Hate Speech in polite text
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Women who commit paternity fraud are the equivalent of rapists and child molesters. Period. No question mark.
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I already am doing as you suggest, Steven. The PoP laws landed me with a child by another man. I couldn't not be her dad, even if I am not her father. Doesn't mean I am still married to her mother, thank goodness! As I said, someone had to take responsibility, her mother sure as hell wasn't gonna, and the father is unknown.
I understand where you are coming from, I think. I certainly believe that men should protect themselves and that paternity fraud should be illegal, and punished severely.
I made my choice based on my assessment of the situation and on my beliefs, and assumed responsibility for my daughter. Each must make his own choice. I'd just like men to HAVE a choice, is all. I'd like my sons and my daughter to have EQUAL choices.
You're entitled to your opinion, of course. I just wanted to point out that there is often much more to a specific situation than the wide generalizations we are often forced to use here.
BTW - I'm afraid I'm pre-"enlightened education". We got a lot of personal responsibility hammered into us, with a side of compassion. Every era seems to have its educational failings, I suppose.
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Hey TParker. I am sorry man. I was really stressed today, got home, and went on a writing tear. And in the process I made assumptions that were wrong. I am a passionate person and that somethimes is not a good thing. I usually am pretty good at taking the time to compose what I write, but not always. Point is, if I advocate for truth, fairness, and open mindedness I should first had ASKED you if you WERE taking care of someone else's child and how so. So, if I want to fulfill my own expectations should step up to the plate and offer an apology. Mea Culpa (I'm guilty = latin). I went off half cocked and without justification. I did not look to who was posting (I thought it was some Fem-man or Anon-Troll) and just made assumptions. Again, mea culpa. I sincerely apologize for MY childish reply and ask you to forgive a passionate advocate for men. If I want to call myself a man, I have take the good with the bad. You took responsibility when needed, and I am now.
With sincere regards
Steven
Guerilla Gender Warfare is just Hate Speech in polite text
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Apology accepted, Steven. I understand how it can be (believe me, I do!) There's plenty of reason to be angry about this issue. About a lot of issues of men's rights, actually. We need your passion, and that of others, to find our way to equity. I just wanted to point out that sometimes, it's not as easy as we tend to make it seem.
Take good care
tom
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by Anonymous User on Sunday October 26, @08:17PM EST (#27)
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Tparker, I do not envy your situation.
I respect that you have taken a particular choice on this issue. Yet at the same time, I would say that is your particular choice and an unusual one at that, and you be careful in distinguishing the choices you make in life from forcing others to do as you do.
You wouldn't be forcing people to adopt, and you wouldn't begin dropping babies off on anonymous doorsteps for people to take care of; that's not good for children or parents.
Notwithstanding this fact, I think that parents need to be as responsible as possible, which would mean to paternity test at birth where possible, and also informing women that the testing will be taken place so they can make appropriate decisions in their lives to insure that these circumstances don't happen in the first place.
That's my two cents.
Honestly, while I respect your volunteerism, if it were me and I found out a child was not mine at birth, I'd rather spend the rest of my years in jail than be forced into a lifetime of reproductive slavery.
In any case, the woman is out of my life immediately.
Take care and I hope you find peace in your life (I honestly don't know if I could go on).
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I told my girlfriend that, if we ever get married and have children, I will insist on a paternity test. I decided to drop it on her up front. She moaned about how I don't trust her blah blah, but in the end it didn't change a damn thing. And no about of guilt or shame tactics ever will change my position on this.
With God as my witness, I will never spend one red cent on another man's child by force or threat.
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