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I'm confused. You're finding these posts HERE? I haven't read every single one, admittedly, but I found just about every post on the topic one of disgust, not of "we like being abused by women".
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by Anonymous User on Wednesday May 07, @12:24PM EST (#2)
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I wonder also where you are coming from? Take it to heart that the people that post here are not representitive of men's groups in general and there will always be opinions represented that are way out on the fringe. You seem to be one of the more intelligent level headed guys here Thundercloud.
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by Anonymous User on Wednesday May 07, @01:18PM EST (#3)
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I figured there might be a chance I would get flamed on this.
It was a tough call but I made it.
Boy Genteel.
No, no one has made a post that comes right out and says these things. But I read a number that say things like; "alot of men like being dominated by women.". and "alot of guys like to be treated like dirt.".
And I have spoken with quite a few men who echo this sentement. Many of these guys are co-workers and friends and such.
But if this is the message I'm getting, and other men, includeing those of us who post here are getting the same message, then it gives me pause for consern.
If so many men feel this way, WHY do they feel this way?
My belief is, (and it is only my belief) that the message that men have been getting from feminism and women for the last 30 plus years has taken root. That message of course being, that "men are bad", "men deserve to be punished" and "men are infirior." etc.
Remember, the best teacher is REPETITION.
And men have been bombarded by these anti-male messages for over three decades. Also remember the saying; "That a lie told often, becomes a truth believed." It is a form of conditioning.
And I beleive with all my heart that men have been and will continue to be conditioned, in this way.
and because the media constantly perpetuates images of men in "sexual submission to women" and men getting their a$$es kicked by women, men being belittled, humiliated, de-humanized and abused by women, this conditioning is driven in further.
I guess my frustration comes from the fact that so few people seem to notice this phenomenon. OR don't even see it as a problem. ESPECIALY men themselves.
I have heard feminists and like-minded women say that "negetive images of girls is damageing to their psyche." I agreed with that then, and I agree with that now.
However the same precaution is obviously not being taken with boys. In fact it seems as if it is the INTENTION of the feminists, education and the media to damage little boys and men, in general, as much as possible. And judgeing by what I'm hearing from men lately, it's working like a charm.
For a very long time society tried VERY hard to make us Indians "hate ourselves". (Hell, it still does.) I know TONS of self-loathing Indians. We were (are) told that we are sub-human, our beliefs are "stupid", that we are "savages" and generaly inferiour all around.
It isn't true, and millions of us tell ourselves that but millions of us beleive it, never the less, again because of the repetition of message.
It is pretty much all we've ever heared.
How many openly traditional Indians do most of you out there know? My guess would be, Not many, if ANY. because most of us are shamed into "not being Indian".
The same thing is happening with men, now.
And just like with my people, it started out gradualy, then got progressivly worse. and also like my people no one precieved it as a problem untill it was too late.
There can be no doubt in my mind that I see the EXACT same tactic being tried upon Men.
And it is WORKING...!
-Thundercloud.
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Thundercloud I think there has been an effort to beat down men, just as you describe. Everywhere you turn in society there's people telling men we're abusive, rapists, stupid, inferior, lazy, and a hundred other jabs. In my case I have my father as a positive role model, so all these things I know to be the lies they are... but how about boys and men out there who were/are denied the right to a father? Without the rock of a real man influencing their self-image they will be tossed around by this barrage of hate like row boats in a hurricane. Anyone who feels like they deserve or desire to be abused by someone else has a real problem... and if the society puts you in that place then society has a real problem.
When I think of all the young men out there, the damage being done by the feminist myth that they can raise a man without a man... it makes me want to scream in frustration. From inner city violence spiralling out of control in a culture where there's more single mothers than married ones, to ultra rich silicon valley neighborhoods with almost 50% drop-out rates because of kids growing up with two 80 hour a week ladder climbers... this country is in trouble. Something needs to change and if both men and women don't stand up and push back at the chaos that feminism has created, we're done for.
BTW... while I'm not Indian, I grew up on the Senaca reservation in Salamanca, and my folks still own a house there. There were a lot of Seneca's who had pride in their culture, and while things certainly have changed, they've held onto many of their cultural structures. In my 99% white neighborhood... they were pretty much the only exposure I got to diversity my entire youth.
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All this s&m stuff is only extreme heterosexuality, because it concerns men who can't stand becoming independent from the all-mighty mother picture as they grow up. They want to remain in dependance towards a older woman and be dominated because it reminds them of their former childhood when their mother was all their universe.
That's why I think more and more that bisexual and gay men are much more liberated than "normal" men because they can live a happy life without women hanging around.
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rage: All this s&m stuff is only extreme heterosexuality, because it concerns men who can't stand becoming independent from the all-mighty mother
picture as they grow up. They want to remain in dependance towards a older woman and be dominated because it reminds them of their former
childhood when their mother was all their universe.
I doubt this. My mother was a feminist and abusive and it did not turn me on to abusive women as sexual partners. It turned me off women in general and feminist women in particular. It's ironic that I cannot mention my abuse in real-life discussions of gender issues or even online debates with feminists because it would discredit me (so that's why YOU HATE WOMEN? I bet you DO THE SAME YOURSELF), but women can always brings their little sob stories up for instant sympathy and credibility.
That's why I think more and more that bisexual and gay men are much more liberated than "normal" men because they can live a happy life without
women hanging around.
That's obvious. Where would feminists (or women, for that matter) be if men suddenly stopped wanting them? without that peculiar weakness and vulnerability in the opposite sex they would not get to spend about 70% of the money while earning about 35% of it. They'd get to spend about 35%.
People will think "but feminists and gays are allies". That is something that has only been true since the late 60's -- for centuries before that homosexuals were the most eloquent and vituperative of misogynists.
cheers,
Tim
Those who like this sort of thing
will find this the sort of thing they like.
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by Anonymous User on Thursday May 08, @03:10AM EST (#31)
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((("homosexuals were the most eloquent vituperatiive of misogynists.")))
Whoa,
I didn't know that.
-Thundercloud.
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Thundercloud,
I often ask myself the same question.
Personally, I think things move to slow as a movement, and want things to happen yesterday, but that is merely my opinion. As for the "men like to be abused" posts, I noticed them too, and logged off to surf elsewhere for the moment. I see those posts as evidence of a twisted sexualization of a males abuse by his mother, then he grows into manhood, and during his teenage years when the fantasy life often grows unchecked and winding it's way into his adult life, he never bothers to examine it. He just accepts it, and puts his money down for the professional dominatrix, or whatever. He is never told he should examine it, if only now for healing his memories. Sure, it may get some guys turned on, but if those darker areas where swept clean through confronting the past and a realisation (aha! wow, she really whooped the shit outa me! I can actually see her with the broomstick....), something could come of that, like the desire for those kinds of 'entertainment' losing its power. I don't know of anyone personally thats shared this type of desire to me, but that they exist is evidenced by the market for services available. I don't think modern psychologist will give much help either, since it's feminization is so complete. There are other methods though. I actually found some releif for things of this type through dianetics auditing, but of other techniques, I'm not familiar. There's my 2 cents.:-)
Disclaimer: Everything I post is of course my own opinion. If it seems harsh, Feminazis just piss me off!
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by Anonymous User on Wednesday May 07, @01:33PM EST (#5)
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guys, really..
some dudes do get off on the whole dominatrix thing. some guys are into s & m. i don't think it's really that much of a cause for alarm. all this pyschoanalysis b.s is going too far. just because a guy may enjoy getting tied up etc. in the bedroom does not mean he wants or deserves the same treatment in the courtroom.
i don't really think the sexual kinks of some members of our gender is really a good reason to disavow the entire movement.
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by Anonymous User on Wednesday May 07, @04:35PM EST (#10)
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The submissive S&M sexual guys are doing it with full consent and knowledge of what they are doing. The scenes that Thundercloud protrayed I think were of men being tortured and dominated without consent. There is a huge diffrence between the two.
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by Anonymous User on Wednesday May 07, @05:01PM EST (#11)
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I have a book that's titled "Beyond leaving the toilet seat up". It's a collection of annecdotes some couples said about eachother, everything from a woman complaining that her husband has one chair that NOBODY is allowed to sit in but him, to a guy asking why female toiletries look like alien weoponry...
Anyway: one of the comments made by a woman may interest you. She says, and I quote:
"It's not something we talk about much, but a lot of us women are attracted to guys that treat us like $#!+."
...Now I wonder why nobody brings THAT up...
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by Anonymous User on Wednesday May 07, @05:30PM EST (#12)
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hmmmmm...I'm thinking it could be because this is a MENS activism site. Just my opinion. Nonetheless, that has been brought up many times I suggest you search through the archives for nice guy vs. jerk guy disscussions. As for me, nobody should treat anybody like shit and when you watch television the bad girl and the man being beaten down are praised wheras the opposite of a man doing it to a women is vilified.
As for the chair I have personal experience with that. Most homes have one couch one love seat and one chair. Consistently the wife takes the couch to lay on, the kids get the love seat and the guy gets HIS chair, nothing wrong with having something of your own in a house. :)
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by Anonymous User on Wednesday May 07, @05:42PM EST (#13)
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"hmmmmm...I'm thinking it could be because this is a MENS activism site. Just my opinion. "
No no... I didn't mean JUST HERE. I ment other places.
The point of my post was that I've seen all this talk about how guys are supposed to love abuse and stuff, and people take it for granted but nobody does the same thing when it's girls.
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by Anonymous User on Wednesday May 07, @06:01PM EST (#14)
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Ah I see what you are saying when men are abused no one cares but when women are people write books about it, spend millions of tax dollars to stop it and file lawsuits like crazy at those who promote it.
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Too many men today are suffering from gendernazi influence. Thinking that masculinity is nothing more than knowing how to use a barbeque and a table saw, they lack the power of a stable, masculine operating basis. Because this inner strength has been compromised, they bend and compromise and make every last concession to their partners. They put up with anything and everything in order to get sex and attention. They become bestial. They believe that if they assert their masculinity, they're somehow "wrong" or "oppressive." They have bought the LIE that true masculinity cannot be kind, that it is nothing but savagery and viciousness. They are completely unaware that true masculinity fosters balance in a relationship.
You're right, Thundercloud. They don't want that balance because of decades of genderfem brainwashing. And that is precisely why we must fight.
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by Anonymous User on Wednesday May 07, @04:30PM EST (#9)
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YES! Someone gets it. Masculinity isn't about sitting around farting, drinking beer and watching football. It isn't about acting like an idiot and little more then a profit-hungry beast. It isn't about setting up a radio talk show where you can constantly degrade women and put them down sexually. I really could care less if women like tough guys or jerks why should I define myself by what a women likes.
To me masculinity is about being a caring father and an intregal part of a family. It's about being proud of the acomplishments of men throughtout history from artists to mechanichs to farmers. It's about taking up positions as teachers, wise men and important cogs in the community and family. This is what has been taken from men.
Today we have two choices to be "patriarchal opressers" wasting our lives away in competition with each other or to be drop-outs, fags, or unmanly because we don't fall into the females picture of the manly man. Of course feminism doesn't like either of those choices because it's all about men being evil no matter what they do. They do perfer the manly man type I think as far as it benifits women and even then the men better not overstep there boundaries. It's better for the feminists to fight the evil they know then one they don't and the bonus of the manly man stereotype is it keeps men out of the family and teaching of children.
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Last year there was a discussion of circumcision on another forum, and I said that it was ridiculous to circumcise guys just because some women like it that way. One dude in there said that he would gladly cut himself up if it would make women like his genitals more.
These pleebs just don't GET IT. We are not here to mirror what women want or like. We are just as elevated as they are and we ought to start pushing for more sovereignty over our own bodies, starting with defenseless infants. Any guy who thinks he should be circumcised because women will like his penis better is... a masochist.
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by Anonymous User on Wednesday May 07, @08:51PM EST (#18)
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Hey! As long as he isn't saying we should force babies to have there peni (penises whatever the plural is) cut up and mutilated because women think babies are no more then the dolls they had as kids, I'd say go at pleb. Cut 'er up, slice and dice, in fact cut the whole thing off if it pleases your girlfriend! He's already been emasculated mentally why not show his physical support to the feminuts. What an idiot.
I've actually heard circumsicion debates centered around this stupid idea. Men arguing if cut or uncut would be better looking to chicks and then basing there decision on this.
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Circumcision was introduced in the USA by people such as Dr. Kellogg in the 19th century. The idea was that if a little boy was caught masturbating, having his foreskin amputated with no anaesthesia and with emphasis on punishment would have a "salutory effect." (Pretty messed up, yes?) This idea began in England, but it lost popularity at the end of World War II. Most circumcised men in England are in their 50s and older. Unfortunately it's still very popular here and in Australia, as well as in Israel and every Arab nation, where circumcision is mandated by religion.
My feeling is that if a man wants to be circumcised for the sake of religion, he's perfectly capable of doing so when he comes of age. Anyone who takes time to inform themselves of the ramifications of routine infant circumcision would have to be either delusional or sadistic to support it. But most people in this country don't bother themselves to read up on circumcision, and the practice is still in wide use.
It is declining, however...
And of course, genderfems howl bloody murder about female circumcision, even the most superficial methods... while trying to distract everyone's attention away from male circumcision, which is an important first step in the devaluation of the male body. Talk to a guy who has skin tags from botched circumcision and see how he feels about that. Or talk to the parents of the boy whose circumcision pain was so intense that he swallowed enough air to rupture his tiny stomach. Just a little snip? They don't feel anything? Yeah right.
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by Anonymous User on Thursday May 08, @01:48AM EST (#30)
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Um excuse me, but the vast majority of males in Australia born from 1980 onwards have NOT been circumcised. Since you got the facts on that one so wrong I tend to doubt any other claims that you have made in your posting.
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Which of his claims?
That circumcision is VERY painful? I can't imagine anything thinking that's not true.
That there can be life threatening complications from circumcision? I hadn't hear of the burst stomach, but there are serious complications in a fair number of "routine" circumcisions. (lots of statistics are but a google search away)
IMO these were the most important facts in his post, and I doubt they'd be argued against by many out there.
additionally... all you have to do is read some of the Genderfem output on FGM and the COMPLETE LACK of even a basic statement about male infant circumcision to know which way the wind is blowing in their camp. It's so pervasive that I had to argue with my wife (who's no feminist) about the identical nature of circumcision and the many of the female circumcisions performed.
She bought into their bs, talking about how African women described how painful and humiliating it is, and how it's used to control them. Well infant boys CAN'T complain about it... (sarcasm on) so maybe the solution for African nations is to start performing the circumcisions when the girls are still infants, the whole problem then goes away (sarcasm off) If you use femilogic, since the boys can't tell you about the abuse... it never happened.
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Thundercloud, with all due respect we discussed this a week or so ago. Pretty much everyone acknowledged the fact that many men have been twisted by conditioning from the media and the education system into believing that they were inferior, bad, dirt, evil, deserved to get hurt, only worth a woman's attention if they were being hurt or put down, etc etc.
Unless you're suggesting solutions or a way forward, bringing it up again is just demoralizing.
The best thing I can think of is to make our own counter messages as pervasive and persuasive as possible, and make sure they reach boys as early as possible.
Setting an example of how it's possible to relate to women without degrading oneself is also a very good thing.
Tim
Those who like this sort of thing
will find this the sort of thing they like.
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by Anonymous User on Thursday May 08, @03:40AM EST (#32)
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(((" Unless you're suggesting solutions or a way forward, bringing it up again is just demoralizing.")))
Tim.
Yeah, I understand what your saying.
But the fact is that I am seeking solutions and a way forward. Because this is one of those times where I really don't know what to make of a particular situation faceing men.
With out getting long-winded, all I can say is, is that I honestly do see this problem as a very real threat to us men. And I just honestly don't know what the solution is, in this case.
-Thundercloud.
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by Anonymous User on Thursday May 08, @09:07PM EST (#40)
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"And I just honestly don't know what the solution is, in this case. "
Thundercloud,
I hear you, man.
I'm afraid the solution begins with each one of us standing up to this sort of thing and saying an emphatic "NO". Unfortunately, I'm afraid it will get much worse before that happens. I'd love to see men, en masse, just up and walk away from women - all of them. If that seems too extreme, think of the fact that almost NO women have ever stood up for men throughout the last thirty-five years when women have abused men with hateful t-shirt slogans, books and newsletters, through family courts, man-bashing tv and radio shows, false assault and harassment allegations, now even physical abuse, and the list goes on. Instead of objecting, women as a whole take part through their active participation, condoning, or silence. They deserve to be totally abandoned.
- Freebird
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by Anonymous User on Thursday May 08, @10:27PM EST (#41)
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((("They deserve to be totally abandoned.")))
Well, I've pretty much done that.
Anyone care to join me?
-Thundercloud.
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by Anonymous User on Friday May 09, @07:12AM EST (#42)
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"Well, I've pretty much done that.
Anyone care to join me?"
I haven't dated, by choice, for almost three years. Looks like I already have joined.
- Freebird
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by Anonymous User on Friday May 09, @01:14PM EST (#45)
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It's been about 12 years for me.
Partialy by choice, but also because I am a big, fat, scary, Indian guy. (^_^)
-Thundercloud.
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I'd love to see men, en masse, just up and walk away from women - all of them.
Been there, done that, still doing it. Can't see changing my attitude in this country in my lifetime.
Sure, I'd love to have a companion to love, to laugh with, to share with. Being alone gets, well, lonely. But feminism has denied me any reasonable chance of a normal man-woman relationship.
I'll take loneliness if it means I get to continue to enjoy the luxury of sleeping indoors.
A man would have to be insane to get involved with a woman in our society. Are you really going to put:
- everything you have,
- everything you've worked for,
- your life,
- your future,
- your chance of a retirement that does NOT involve sleeping in bus shelters,
into the hands of someone who has been brainwashed to:
- hold you in contemp;
- blame you for anything she doesn't like in her life;
- believe that she is entitled, by birth, to a life of comfort without having to earn it herself;
- believe that anything she takes from you, any harm she does to you, is justified and even viewed with approval because you're the 'bad guy,'
and THEN is given the legal tools to do just that, on her say-so alone, and is told she won't be held accountable for any harm she causes.
Get involved? I don't THINK so. I guess I'm just another one of those stupid, worthless, juvenile, deadbeat, commitment-phobes.
Ragtime
The Uppity Wallet
The opinions expressed above are my own,
but you're welcome to adopt them.
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by Anonymous User on Friday May 09, @07:23PM EST (#46)
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". I guess I'm just another one of those stupid, worthless, juvenile, deadbeat, commitment-phobes."
Welcome to the club. You're in very good company.
- Freebird
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by Anonymous User on Wednesday May 07, @09:30PM EST (#19)
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Thundercloud,
I see alot of the same mixed messages and attribute it to a few things myself. First and foremost is that I imagine most of the men who say they like being abused by women are not the same men in groups and discussions like ours. That being said, I am sure there is alot of subconsciuos (or primal) vs. conscious differentiation.
I am no psychologist and I think that alot of the ideas posed by others are probably quite accurate. As far as how those feelings can exist while knowingly realizing that you don't in fact like being treated like sh*t...i think it's the hidden inner demons . I used to be quite addicted to porn, strip clubs, massage parlors, phone sex, the whole 9 yards. I KNEW it wasn't healthy but it gace me a primal urge. I suppose it's much the same as the primal urge that draws women to strong, confident (maybe even cocky), alpha male types who never accomodate others while espousing a love of sensetive "feeling" men.
Just my thoughts,
Mark
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...I used to be quite addicted to porn, strip clubs, massage parlors, phone sex, the whole 9 yards. I KNEW it wasn't healthy but it gace me a primal urge...
The only vice I've had is to bait blow-hards and trolls on internet forums...
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by Anonymous User on Wednesday May 07, @11:59PM EST (#21)
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You're not one of those types that calls prostitutes sexually exploited women are you? If they don't like there profession maybe they should find another job like anyone else. Many people have had shitty lives or are trapped in debts and don't become drug addicts or prostitutes. Stop giving them excuses to continue what they are doing and to continue ruining there lives.
My city has a escort group founded by escorts that talks about how great the job is and how proud they are of what they are doing. They have a website I'm sure I could find it if you like, they hardly sound exploited to me.
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by Anonymous User on Thursday May 08, @01:05AM EST (#25)
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The "site" you mention is most certainly run by middle-class, lower than scum, women who have entered the sex trade through greed. I was talking about the 95% plus
that enter the sex trade because of other reasons.
Make no mistake - there are 2 very different types of people who work in the sex trade.
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by Anonymous User on Thursday May 08, @01:10AM EST (#26)
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No matter what reasons they can leave the profession and get help if they choose to.
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..but did you ever think how "unhealthy" it was for all the women who were victims of incest, child molestation, rape , domestic violence, mental
illness or were broke, supporting children on their own, in debt, drug addicted that you used and abused?
Lorriane must have forgotten her password.
Tim
Those who like this sort of thing
will find this the sort of thing they like.
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by Anonymous User on Thursday May 08, @01:11AM EST (#27)
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She's probably so embarresed about defending child rapists that she posts anonymously now.
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by Anonymous User on Thursday May 08, @01:36AM EST (#28)
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In case you have any doubts about child sex abuse, visit this site daily - http://www.theoffender.net - and then tell me who the main offenders of child sex abuse is.
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by Anonymous User on Thursday May 08, @01:45AM EST (#29)
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Ah, so you are lorraine the lover of child rapists. Yes, men do commit crimes an amazing revelation. I suppose you believe all indians and blacks should be punished because they commit more crime then whites?
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by Anonymous User on Thursday May 08, @03:55AM EST (#33)
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I doubt it's Lorraine.
But anyone ever notice that when this particular type of discussion comes up, there is always an "anonymous poster" who has likely been lurking around quietly for some time who pops up and defends abuse against men by brining up abuse against women, thinking that THAT makes any difference?
This happened another time, a while back.
Someone (I'm guessing a woman) told us all to "bow down to women and be the submissive beings that we truely are", or some kind of bull s#!t to that effect.
No, I think it's not Lorraine, Just your garden variety Troll.
-Thundercloud.
PS.
Wait a minuet, Indians don't commit THAT much crimes.
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by Anonymous User on Thursday May 08, @04:54AM EST (#34)
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This is typical femiloser/racist thinking, two wrongs make a right, if one man anywhere has abused a women somewhere then all men are guilty and should be punished. It's also supposed to make you feel guilty and is supposed to make all men look evil from the sins of a few.
Femilosers love this tactic becuase they can then feel morally righteous punishing those evil men by taking away there freedoms and telling them they have no right to complain about anything. It's the same tactic racists use to keep the fires of hatred burning and to justify there beliefs that a specific race is evil and should be punished.
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""But anyone ever notice that when this particular type of discussion comes up, there is always an "anonymous poster" who has likely been lurking around quietly for some time who pops up and defends abuse against men by brining up abuse against women, thinking that THAT makes any difference?""
That happens with race, too. If a white man kills a black man, and he is condemned by blacks, some white person will say, "Oh, yeah? Well, what about all the black people who kill white people? I guess that doesn't bother you, huh?"
And, of course, blacks sometimes do the same thing when whites condemn a black murderer for killing a white. And on and on and on. (And I'm not suggesting that there are only two races; this is just an example.)
Why is it certain individuals have such a tough time conceding that ANYONE can be a victim? OF COURSE we're against women being exploited and abused. Now, how about acknowledging that males are human beings, too?
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by Anonymous User on Thursday May 08, @04:09PM EST (#39)
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well I was the "victim" of constant sexual advertising of women my whole life so I guess we were both victims. Maybe that's what attracted me to them so much.
Puh-lease.
Adults have free will. Pets, slaves and infants don't. I suppose such women (like my schnauzer Fritz) are helplesss and have no control over their destiny.
Mark
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Either men want equality, or they DON'T.
I think unfair to talk about "men" as if "men" is a single creature consisting of the 3 billion men on the planet and including 3 billion heads, 6 billion legs, 6 billion arms and so on as one single entity. There 3 billion individual men on the planet. Most of these don't want to be abused. In fact even those who say they do, really seem to want a bit of risky titillation rather than real abuse. Just offer them a place in a real torture chamber and see how many volunteers you get. A lot of what we see of these men is feminist inspired propaganda where men who "agree" with the feminists are championed as examples of what men want and some men seem to act like religious zealots who thrash themselves at least in a verbal sense and sometimes in a physical sense. They think they are going to get respect for this. Mostly they just get ridicule.
Men like being dominated by women
This is normally said by women who are control freaks. These women who nag and bully men to do what they want. If the men cave in, then the women claim the men want it or need it. Only when we can get past the feminist propaganda and men's voices are heard will we truly hear what men want. I'm sure it is not to be abused. Images of men being abused and accepting it are common. Strangely enough images of women being abused and accepting it are uncommon and yet although you don't hear much about it. no-one denies the existence of the lesbian sado-masochistic couple.
As for equality, the existence of the lesbian sado-masochistic couple demonstrates that women, devoid of male influence, can still consensually indulge in unequal relationships. I would even go so far as to say that there is never equality in any relationship, and I don't just mean sexual relationships. If you buy a newspaper it is because you have money and the shopowner has a newspaper. How much money for how much newspaper is a judgement. The newspaper price can be seen as extortionate, or it can be seen as exceptional value. Just about any relationship is quid pro quo, how much you can get for what you've got.
To some extent equality is the right to negotiate your own price or ultimately not agree a price if you wish, whether we are talking newspaper prices, whether you are doing the washing up or she is doing something you want or who gets custody of the child in a divorce. The problem is that men are not negotiating their own price at the moment. Some have completely bought the feminist rubbish, some think something's wrong but are confused, some feeling powerless are just keeping quiet and a few are trying to resist or at least raise an objection.
Well, what I'm trying to say is that most men want equality and even those who say otherwise really don't want to be abused. It is clear that what we are seeing and hearing is what the feminists portray as what men deserve. We hear about deadbeat dads, not because all fathers are deadbeat dads but because that's what the feminists want to portray fathers as. We hear about cheating men, not because all men are cheats, but that is what the feminists want to hear. We her about cowed and masochistic men, not because all men are cowed and masochistic, but because that is what the feminists want to hear. Don't go by what feminists and their supporters suggest. Look at men under attack in wars, revolutions, droughts, storms, plagues and disasters. There's much more to men than the feminists would have you believe. It's just that in the present atmosphere you won't hear about it if the feminists have their way, and they often have their way, for now.
Raymond Cuttill Men's Books Men's Radio
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by Anonymous User on Thursday May 08, @03:52PM EST (#38)
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Raymond,
Thank you.
Everyone, here has given me food for thought. Thanks to you as well.
I think that what Raymond is saying is 100% accurate.
The very wussy-poopie men Raymond is speaking of are the ones PRODUCEING and WRITEING those abominabale shows in the first place. (Hollywood is RIFE with Wussy-poopies, femboys and "Yes ma'm" types) Along with female writers who you KNOW are gonna go right along with this type of garbage.
In fact, I have noticed in the last ten, or so, years, that the more female writers, the worse this sort of thing has gotten!
I feel rather stupid at the moment, because this is something I should have KNOWN already.
Again, I believe Raymond to be dead-on when he alludes to the fact that alot of men are just SAYING they like to be abused by women.
Why are they saying this?
Well, I'd hazzard to guess that they say it, because it is "politicaly correct" to say it.
Any woman that says she "likes abuseing and dominating men" is touted as a "strong woman".
ANY man that would say he "enjoys abuseing or dominating women" is labled an "abuser".
Also there are a fair number of wussy-poopie, femboys who think if they are wussypoopie enough and play it up to women, that they'll get laid more, or something.
I have never understood any one who would give away their self-respect to obtain favor from another. But appearantly, that is what we are seeing, in many cases.
Okay, am I finaly 'Getting it'?
-Thundercloud.
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