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by Anonymous User on Saturday April 19, @07:07PM EST (#1)
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Okay, then it would seem that women are now victims of EQALITY.
So, can it now also be said that becaues of this women are victimizing themselves...?
'Can't win, man. 'Can't win.
-Thundercloud.
(I have enough aggravation.)
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by Anonymous User on Sunday April 20, @01:20AM EST (#4)
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That should have been "EQUALITY".
...Typ-o...
-Thundercloud.
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by Anonymous User on Sunday April 20, @03:10AM EST (#6)
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"'Can't win, man. 'Can't win."
TC:
I know how you feel. I'm digressing a little here, but I recently attended a domestic violence conference where the same old feminist dogma and disinformation was waved in the face of solid truth and facts.
These people are so deeply embedded into the domestic violence factory that they would suffer great loss if they were suddenly cut off form sucking up the lucrative billions, that have been allocated to that scam boondoggle. They are so deeply embedded in the cycle of criminalizing men (lock up more men, to get more money, to lock up more men, to get more money), that they wouldn't recognize reality if it flew into their airspace and suddenly covered them in truth serum.
When there was a mention of the cycle of violence all I could think of as I glanced around the room at their faces was how can these people be helped to break free of the cycle of stupidity and blood sucking greed that they are committed to.
Now that we have liberated Iraq, how about our government going onto our college campuses and liberating our own people of that source of Draconian man hating propaganda know as Women's Studies, where so much of domestic violence disinformation comes from.
Let's face it "Baghdad Bob" looks like George Washington ("I can not tell a lie I chopped down the cherry tree"), compared to the instructors you find in those classes.
It would be nice to see a few billion dollars allocated for a VAMA (Violence Against Men Act) for our returning veterans and other battered men in society. I’m sure that at least some of those men will have problems as a direct result of the violence they have been exposed to in this war, and I fear that some of these men will go on to become victims of the rabidly sexist, domestic violence industry, that rages without true accountability to our society.
Let's see now, 107 American deaths(1 female), and over 400 other casualties (2 women). Those 3 women are sure getting a lot of print, but that's how it goes when you are revered as role models for men to emulate and worship. I respect what those 3 females have done as much as I respect the sacrifice of all the other service people. However, those women are not being treated equally. They are being treated with special privileges, at least by our biased media, and conceivably in other areas as well. Equality is a long way from reality for all the 2nd class citizens known as men in America today.
Ray
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by Anonymous User on Sunday April 20, @03:20AM EST (#7)
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"I fear that some of these men will go on to become victims of the rabidly sexist, domestic violence industry, that rages without true accountability to our society." Those foxes watch (cook the books) on their own chicken coops.
Nothing like serving your coutry, then having that same country turn their back on you, because you're a man.
"WHY SEND ONLY MEN TO COMBAT THEN BLAME ONLY MEN FOR DOMESTIC VIOLENCE."
In this time of partiotic fervor for our service men and women, I see a glaring national hypocrisy about to be extened to our valiant serviceMEN.
Hell yes, they deserve a VAMA (Violence Against Men Act). The violence that women occasionaly face in war and society is trivial compared to what men face routinely.
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by Anonymous User on Sunday April 20, @03:47AM EST (#8)
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But violence against women is different.
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by Anonymous User on Sunday April 20, @04:44AM EST (#11)
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"But violence against women is different."
Sooo?
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"Now that we have liberated Iraq, how about our government going onto our college campuses and liberating our own people of that source of Draconian man hating propaganda know as Women's Studies, where so much of domestic violence disinformation comes from."
College Campuses? Surely you jest.
I think a more effective approach would be a Martin Luther King approach into the hate-campaign launched against men by the feminists.
Or maybe Malcom XY.
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"So, can it now also be said that becaues of this women are victimizing themselves...?"
Suffice it to say that they have been caught in their own web of lies and untruths, which complacency has afforded them, but now it seems that "shit happens" reality has hit the fan, and they're in deep doo-doo.
As we know, "what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive--" particularly when deceiving ourselves.
Even if you can fool all of the people all of the time, you can't fool God.
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by Anonymous User on Saturday April 19, @11:05PM EST (#2)
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Paternalistic (in this case, maternalistic...) claptrap. "Oh, those poor women..."
Does the (female) author imagine that men being recruited ought to be given a full and complete disclosure of the risks they face when signing up, too?
More women-firster trash from a fem-bot. Just what we need...
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by Anonymous User on Sunday April 20, @12:33AM EST (#3)
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“Could you somehow weave the domestic violence “primary aggressor” rule into some of the replies to these questions? Do policies for women in combat and women in domestic violence reflect an American double standard?"
You betcha!
#1 In a domestic violence event, where there is just yelling, or even where the man is being assaulted, it is perceived by domestic violence law, that due to the man’s larger size he is the primary aggressor. Under the mandatory arrest policy, he is thereby arrested. Being a smaller less physical being works to the woman’s advantage here, and she is perceived as the victim due to her diminutive size.
#2 In the military, it is perceived as unfair if women are held back in any job classification due to their diminutive physical stature. That would be sexism. We must treat women as equals or we are being sexist. Everyone knows that a woman can really do anything a man can do and do it better. When the military treats women as less than men, because they are smaller and less physically able, it victimizes women and denies them equal status with men.
Oh the unfairness of it all. Men are such brutish oppressors. Pardon me I have to go now. There’s a wall in my house with a sign on it that says “Bang Head Here When Discussing Justice Under FemiNazi law in America.” Does anyone know how to get blood stains out of drywall?
Ray
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"Does anyone know how to get blood stains out of drywall?"
You bet, Ray.
Rub the face of a feminist on it for a few minutes. It should clean up pretty good.:-)
Disclaimer: Everything I post is of course my own opinion. If it seems harsh, Feminazis just piss me off!
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"Being a smaller less physical being works to the woman’s advantage here, and she is perceived as the victim due to her diminutive size."
This is known as "Political 'middle child syndrome'," i.e Big Brother comes down on the citizen for being the victim of "Little Brother," i.e. a civilian who is oppressing the citizen "middle child."
Such oppression can be direct, i.e. arrest, harassment etc, or by act of omission, i.e. refusing to protect the citizen while enforcing punishment if he acts to protect himself.
This is common in domestic violence cases, particularly if the victim can't leave for some reason. While it's technically illegal, it's the main drive of Big Government, i.e. anarchy which begets tyranny-- the trademark of a naive and complacent citizenry lulled into a false sense of security by leftist media who fancies themseves as high-born aristocrats.
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by Anonymous User on Sunday April 20, @04:06AM EST (#9)
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Elaine Donnelly writes:
“It should matter that the International Red Cross and other experts on prisoners of war have reported differences in the harsh treatment of male and female prisoners. Brutality that is uniquely cruel to women, including sexual assault and rape, frequently has been used as a weapon of war against women, but rarely men.”
The American Red Cross, another liberal organization fully ensconced in the feminist doctrines. I’m not surprised to hear this crap coming from them.
The above quote particularly irked me with its ridiculous asininity. I concede that women are no strangers to the horrors of war, but in the grand scheme of things, men have always been the cannon fodder, and the main targets of abuse in all wars.
Elaine Donnely has done her homework poorly in the above statement, or not at all, as what she says is so absurd as to be ludicrous. Hey Elaine, have you ever heard how the W.W.II Nazis would take a serviceman’s eye out with a spoon, or how the Viet Cong or ARVN would cut open a captured soldiers stomach and pull his guts out. It’s amazing how long those intestines are. Oh, and even I’m a little reluctant to speak about this, but have you no idea how easy it is to castrate a man? I assure you that their are one and zero testicled war veterans running around our society today who could give you more info, if they are still alive. But if they are, for some reason, I don’t think they really want to talk about it, especially to a female. I could go on, but I think you get the idea.
I’m not sure you could find that information in any Dept. of Defense file, but I assure you it is seared into the memories of those who have lived through it or seen it. I guess I’m a little upset at how easily our society jettisons those people, sweeps them under the rug, let’s them drown in their alcohol and drugs, locks them up in prisons, but never gives them a fraction of the services that privileged, pampered women get under VAWA, (privileged pampered women who routinely haven’t seen a thimble full of the horrors that men have been made to live with just as rountinely).
Next time you do your homework for an article such as this, Ms. Donnely, I suggest that before you so glibly disrespect the abuses that men have endured, be sure you have all the facts. It is very insulting for men who have seen, and/or given so much to read such ignorant disinformation as yours.
Sorry if I’ve grossed anyone out, but I get a little tired of historical revisionists who reshape the events of history in an overly apparent effort to further an agenda, in this case a feminist one.
Ray
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by Anonymous User on Sunday April 20, @04:38AM EST (#10)
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Ray, you definately have a way of getting a point across.
I'm damn proud to be on your side.
-hobbes
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And I will enthusiastically second hobbes on this one. Outstanding, Ray. Thanks.
Kyle Knutson
NCFM, Twin Cities Chapter
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by Anonymous User on Sunday April 20, @11:40PM EST (#23)
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And I'll third Hobbes and Kyle.
-Thundercloud.
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by Anonymous User on Monday April 21, @12:55AM EST (#28)
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Hobbes, Kyle, TC:
Thanks for your kind words. I hope this meager cogent effort hasn't ruined my reputation for rambling aimlessly in a rant. I have an image to maintain you know. Just kidding, thanks.
Ray
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I hope this meager cogent effort hasn't ruined my reputation for rambling aimlessly in a rant.
Not at all, Ray. Not at all.
;-)
Larry
Proud member of the Sperm Cartel
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by Anonymous User on Sunday April 20, @11:07AM EST (#13)
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"Brutality that is uniquely cruel to women, including sexual assault and rape, frequently has been used as a weapon of war against women, but rarely men.”
I think that's one of the key phrases Ray. The most frustrating thing is that even in war, rape as a crime is considered on a par with murder. Since men primarily suffer from one of these fates, people like Donnelly seem intent on ensuring that raped women are seen on the same level as murdered men. Don't get me wrong, rape is a heinous crime, but since it is effectively a sexual crime, we should really compare like with like. If you do a search in Google for the words "testicles" and "Amnesty", you will find countless reports on the torture tactics used on hundreds of thousands of men in countless regimes around the world.
However, rape is used as such an emotive term and type of crime in any discussion about females in battle, that the politics won't allow most rational men to state the obvious: Rape is not the same as murder.
It is not a competition though and these women have my sympathy, however as a reason to exclude women from combat, it is laughable. Consider the corollary - since men are the primary murder victims of war, men should not be allowed to fight in combat. Since many men consider rape to be less heinous than murder, women should fight all wars of the future.
Controversial? Well it's women like Donnelly who start the logic chain with comments like the quote at the top.
Rob
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"Don't get me wrong, rape is a heinous crime, but since it is effectively a sexual crime, we should really compare like with like."
I really think that rape is the least of violations, at least the sentencing guidelines used by US criminal law enforcement; I fail to see why it should be any different during a time of war. However, women tend to be unashamedly biased and insensitive in double-standards of "selective outrage" based on nothing more than the gender of the victim-- this only further reinforces the case that, as a rule, women lack the ability to appreciate true moral objectivity in terms of actual individual rights and atrocity of violation thereof, as opposed to simple theoretical metaphor.
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If you do a search in Google for the words "testicles" and "Amnesty", you will find countless reports on the torture tactics used on hundreds of thousands of men in countless regimes around the world.
Heck, you don't even have to go that far-- just turn on the fricking TV and it's carte blanche, despite this being an outright case of sexual assault and battery. Whether this is liberal symbolism for castration, or simple feminazi downplaying of the rights of "outsiders," it's an equal indication of how sick our society has become-- "we has met the enemy, and they is us."
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by Anonymous User on Sunday April 20, @11:41PM EST (#24)
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But violence against women is diffrent.
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by Anonymous User on Monday April 21, @12:40AM EST (#27)
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"But violence against women is diffrent."
Please develope that simplistic thought. How is it different? ...and if it is different how is that significant? The last time I checked both male and female were significantly evovled enough to sense pain in similar ways.
Most life forms experience pain and discomfort. It is a mark of our humanity to extend compassion to those people or things in pain. There should be NO DIFFERENCE in the depth of our compassion to male or female. I tend to extend that compassion pretty much intact to the animal world. Soooo, once again how is violence against women different?
Sincerely, Ray
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by Anonymous User on Monday April 21, @04:53AM EST (#30)
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Ray, Sorry.
That was me who wrote; "But violence against women is different." But I was being sarcastic.
I forgot to sighn the post here AND in one other thread, so there was no way you or anyone else could have known it was me or that I was being sarcastic. Sorry.
-Thundercloud.
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by Anonymous User on Monday April 21, @07:05PM EST (#32)
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TC:
No problem, I'm actually a little disappointed. I thought we had a shy troll nibbling on the thread, and I was just trying to get some interaction. Dang, I think they've all gotten SARS or something. Haven't seen one here for a long time.
Ray
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Thanks Ray, great response. I won't go into full details but my grandfather was captured in war and suffered greatly.
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American post-cold war complacency has definitely
embarassed national military competency, with sentiments expressed in movies such as "The Caine Mutiny" and "A Few Good Men," of the military being used as nothing but a career-booster and playground by those completely unfit for military readiness, are underscored by such antics during the Clinton adminstration when naval veterans were resigning by the boatload due to such military buffoonery as a ship's lieutenant being punished and forced to apologize for chewing out a female trainee who nearly caused a nuclear meltdown on the USS Enterprise during a training exercise.
Before I understood war and combat-- or much else-- I too believed in equality among the sexes in combat and everything else; however it took more than a few bumps on the head from reality to make me realize that there's a difference between objective reality and wishful thinking, i.e. "is" and "oughta be; as a rule, the only place you'll see combat-ready women is in male-bashing movies and television.
Likewise, there's also a matter of honor, since soldiers of any denomination cannot honorably be expected to fight againt women, since this is an insult to their manhood, which will accordlingly be reflected in the treatment of female prisoners, with rape and torture being used as a means to recapture that.
While wishful-thinkers may wish to continue in their fantasy-world of gender asexuality, this is because the reality is just a little too complicated for them to understand and so they live on in "Cleopatra Syndrome," i.e. Queens of De-nile.
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I think the TRUE sentiment of this article, is not that women are at greater risk per se, but rather that violation of a woman is a greater crime than equal violation of a man.
If this is to be accepted, i.e. that "men are more able to take it--" or at least are more expendible--then the argument for gender-equality goes out the window, and women have no more place in the military than in a men's room-- and DEFINITELY have no business being equally compensated.
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Ya know, I've never understood this whole "men can take it" nonsense. Consider this:
Women have been claiming since the beginning of time to have a higher tolerance for pain than men. "After all," says women, "we have babies! We can take pain better than men."
Well if that's true, and of course women NEVER lie, then yes they CAN take it. In fact, they can take it better than men can. So the next time you hear a feminist say that men "can take" domestic violence and therefore don't deserve help, be sure to quickly point out to her that women can take it better than men can. After all, women have such higher tolerances for pain.
Meanwhile, I'm gonna go pass a kidney stone and dare a woman to tell me she has a higher tolerance for pain. :o)
"Existence exists. A is A." -Ayn Rand
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by Anonymous User on Sunday April 20, @11:49PM EST (#25)
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Napnip and Tulkas.
Yeah, I can't count the number of times I have heared women say that whole; "women have a higher tolerance for pain." jive.
Then turn around and say "men can take it, better."
Which is it ladies? You can't have it both ways.
Oh, wait I forgot, They CAN have it both ways. They're women. ...Silly me...!
-Thundercloud.
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by Anonymous User on Monday April 21, @12:28AM EST (#26)
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"Oh, wait I forgot, They CAN have it both ways. They're women. ...Silly me...!"
Being duplicitous is at the core of being in touch with your feminine side. ...or is that your nuerotic side? Ah, what's the difference?
Ray
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Thank you Ray, and everyone else here for shining the revealing light on this gross hypocrisy. I can't believe an article like this was actually published. What can I say...you've all said it all already. Is there an email address where we can write to give her a piece of our minds. Just cut and paste Ray's response will more than suffice.
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