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One standard for males, another for females. The standard for males is higher. Ho-hum. Same old, same old.
---- Burn, Baby, Burn ----
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by Anonymous User on Thursday April 17, @04:48PM EST (#3)
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Pretty typical.
If a man does it it's a crime, if a woman does the exact same thing it's aaaaallllright...!
Little or no difference here in the USA, either.
I don't know about Canada.
Dan Lynch, if you'er out there, maybe you can shed some light on that.
My guess is, though, that it ain't much different there, either.
-Thundercloud.
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As far as I know in Canada the laws are gender blind. The problem comes in persecuting the laws. In Canada we don't really have laws or legislators we have appointed judges that make things up as they go along, elected politicians are just overpayed figureheads. Canada isn't really a democracy it's a judicial and beuracratic dictatorship.
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They just need to change their laws. Lots of places have a gender blind age of consent laws. It is not difficult to pass them. Statuatory rape laws are some of the most popularly supported laws.
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Just make sure you let the raped boy and his family know how easy it is for them to change the law. I'm sure they will be happy to know that.
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Just make sure you let the raped boy and his family know how easy it is for them to change the law. I'm sure they will be happy to know that.
Exactly, Andrew. When the law oppresses males, the feminist response is to flippantly say something along the lines of, "Just change the law."
I remember during the Vietnam War, I objected in front of a feminist to the all-male draft. Her response was to say, "No one should be drafted." At that moment, she was done with the matter. The fact that men were still drafted was of no consequence to her, she was too busy fighting for affirmative action preferential treatment for herself while declaring that she wanted equality.
Now, during much of that war, there was a student deferment. As a result, black men (who were less likely to be in college) were more likely than white men to be drafted. I was one of the fortunate men; the draft ended the year I graduated from college. Even among the men who supported US involvement in the war, when I pointed this out there was serious objection to the murderous oppression of black men. That more than anything got some otherwise conservative men that I knew active in the civil rights and anti-war movement. They didn't just declare, "No one should be drafted," and then continue to enjoy their comfort at the expense of the oppressed.
One of the things we accomplished through protest was the end of the student deferment. Many white men were willing to risk their lives by fighting the student deferment, in order to end the discrimination against oppressed black men.
A feminist, however, will not fight the oppression of men. She'll just flippantly state that oppression shouldn't exist and believe she's done with the matter.
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Of course a feminist will not fight opression of men because they believe such a thing doesn't exist no matter what facts are presented to them. I think the flippant feminist response to change the laws comes from the belief that they still think laws are made by the "old boys club" and that men wield all the tools of power.
I found Lorraine's response typically uncompasionate but at least she realizes that it's a problem most feminazis would laugh it off since they believe men can't be raped or abused.
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by Anonymous User on Thursday April 17, @06:43PM EST (#10)
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and when it's a man oppressing men there's the wonderfull feminist response of "however, it's men doing it to men" I just love that one, yet I have no idea how to reply to it because I'm usually too pissed at how uncaring feminists can be towards people who have penises.
Aaron
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It goes even further then just "men doing it to men", feminazis usally find a way to make women the victims even when men suffer or die. In an argument that I had with a feminazi about prison rape I couldn't believe how her mind worked. First she gave stats on how many prison rapes happen, then she used those stats to make the assumption that men are all evil rapists and it hardly matters that men are raped since it's men doing it to men (Note: women rape other women in women's jails at about the same rate). Here's the clincher-she then went on to assert (an unproven and fanciful assertion) that when men who are prison raped are released they go out and rape women so they can re-assert and prove there manhood. It's amazing how she warped men's suffering into women being the ultimate victims. I suppose this is along the lines of similar feminazi thought when they say things like "women and children are the real victims of war", nevermind that it is mostly men and boys that die and fight in war. It's the same when they talk about the plight and poverty of widows because those bastard husbands keep dying and leaving women alone.
I wouldn't be suprised if the feminazis in NZ are writing articles at this moment supporting the pedophile, neither would I be suprised that if they do find a way to prosecute the pedophile that the feminazis find a way to make her the victim in the situation. I will also be suprised if this pedophile gets pregnant and feminazis don't call for and/or the courts don't make the child or the child's parents pay support payments to her.
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I'm sorry Andrew what you say just doesn't square with my experience. When the Mary Kay LeTourneau case was in the news I was in countless discussions about it with people and overwhelmingly the women thought she should be prosecuted and harshly punished. The overwhelmingly number of males gave a shrug of shoulder or tacitly approved of the relationship. That is what I've heard over and over (except here).
I don't think it is women who want this particular law (statuatory rape) to be unequal or who are apathetic about it.
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by Anonymous User on Thursday April 17, @10:29PM EST (#18)
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Actually lorainne I live where this mary k. L. thing happened and it was women who down played this. In fact I know the director of research for sexual assault at a major northwest hospital and she talked with me about how she was concerned how people including women did NOT take this seriously. In fact we talked about how one local column in a major newspaper romanticized this, (who also happened to be female)and how this would not have been tolerated if Mary L. were a man. And we also talked about letters written to the editors that were printed in defense of her (quite a bit were in fact written by females) and how if Mary K. L. were male we wouldn't be seeing people trying to rationalize it or make the victimizer into the victim as we saw with Mary K. L.
And as an aside, in an interview that she once gave a female reporter she was actually asked if rape is as bad when it happens to men. So I hate to break this to you and burst your self righteous gender bubble but it is women who make light of sexual assaults and the statuatory rapes of males, it's not just other males who do this.
Aaron
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by Anonymous User on Thursday April 17, @10:29PM EST (#19)
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I'm sorry but what you say doesn't square with reality or the professed intentions of feminazis. Have you ever heard of the book "The Boy" here's an article you can read about it http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/01/23/10429114 93003.html . I'd hate to be a member of your circle of perverted male friends since they all sound like they support pedophilia.
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by Anonymous User on Thursday April 17, @10:34PM EST (#20)
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oh yeah, and since I'm pissed about your comment since I have direct personal experience with the trivialization of male sexual abuse/assaults, fuck you.
Aaron
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I met Ms. LeTourneau in prison briefly, just after she went through intake. The other inmates despied her and wanted nothing to do with her. They objected to a rapist and child molester, much as men in prison will if they find that a fellow inmate is a rapist or child molester. If I recall correctly, she spent some time in protective custody to avoid any "accidents". The women inmates that talked to me were unanimous in their contempt of Ms. LeTourneau and her criminal act.
There was a good deal of local press, both when she was sentenced the first time (suspended sentence, probation and counseling), and when she was sentenced the second time. I recall that a good bit of it was favorable to her "plight", nor was all the favorable press from women. A good many of the women I spoke to outside expressed distaste of her actions, as well.
BUT - many of the free women, both in private and in the media, expressed surprise at the severity of Ms. LeTourneau's sentence. aside from one or two women on the outside, the only women I was aware of that generally thought Ms. LeTourneau should get the same sentence as a man were the inmates of the Women's facility.
As far as I was able to tell, only women who were convicted felons were agreed that Ms. LeTourneau's crime was equal to child molestation and rape by a man and worthy of the same sentence. I can't help but wonder what perspectives being a prisoner lends that more fortunate Feminist women might not have.
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That's because everyone in prison is looking for someone else to be worse than they are, someone who they can look down on. Of course they're critical. I would focus my interest on what women on the outside think, rather than women in the state pen.
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by Anonymous User on Thursday April 17, @11:50PM EST (#26)
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Sorry it won't let me link directly to the page. Go to the first link of this google search to get to the article http://www.google.ca/search?q=germaine+greer+pedop hile&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&meta=
maybe that will work
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by Anonymous User on Thursday April 17, @11:55PM EST (#27)
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Try this instead http://www.ipce.info/library_3/files/greer_boys.ht m
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Well my personal experience of how males and females differ in their opinions on this issue differs from yours. Vastly more males trivialize and make light of women having sex with boys than the other way around.
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Boy the head in the sand stuff is amazing here. I wonder how far some of you will go to deny men don't trivialize and make light of women/boy sex?
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by Anonymous User on Friday April 18, @05:03AM EST (#31)
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Sounds like it's just the pedophile loving perverts that you hang out with, that's not our fault.
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by Anonymous User on Friday April 18, @05:04AM EST (#32)
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Just like you do and your pedophile loving friends? Sorry, you aren't going to find many here that trivialize it.
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by Anonymous User on Friday April 18, @07:25AM EST (#34)
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Sorry I screwed it up again remove the space between the ht and the m at the end and it will work. Anyone think this would be a good news topic?
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Actually lorainne I live where this mary k. L. thing happened and it was women who down played this.
Thank you, Aaron. As usual, Lorianne as a feminist blames the victims when the victims are male. I've never heard men downplay the inequalities of statutory rape laws, but I've heard women, feminists, on countless occasions blame the male victims.
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I'd hate to be a member of your circle of perverted male friends since they all sound like they support pedophilia.
IF there's a word of truth in what Lorianne says, and the men she knows do shrug off pedophilia when women are the perpetrators and boys are the victims, we shouldn't be too surprised. The men she associates with are probably feminists.
Again, NO MAN that I know makes light of the statutory raping of boys by anyone. They ALL believe that statutory rape laws should be equitable. And as far as it being easy to change laws, it's easy to change them when women are the real or even just perceived victims. It's far harder, though no less necessary, to change laws when males are the victims and females the perpetrators, because in that case the feminists launch into their campaigns to block holding women culpable for their actions.
We've seen feminist writings in major media stating outright that statutory raping of girls by men is a horrible thing, but the statutory raping of boys by women is either not really bad or a good thing. And there was that recent movie, "Tadpole," with Bebe Neuwirth and Sigourney Weaver in which it's fine comedy when a woman statutorily rapes a drunk boy.
Note how "Tadpole" is described at hollywood.com by the woman Doris Toumarkine. (No doubt some male feminists feel the same. The point is that women must not be excused for this. Feminists must not get away with blaming male victims while excusing female perpetrators.) Want to see how the woman Doris Toumarkine blames the male victim of statutory rape? Here it is, "That 15-year-old preppie Oscar (Aaron Stanford) has a penchant for older women is not the only thing that sets him apart from his peers. He's fluent in French and steeped in French literature, polite, urbane, smart, charming and cute--everything a woman, older or younger, could wish for... Diane (Bebe Neuwirth), slyly lures Oscar from massage table to bed. The morning after Oscar is appropriately guilt-ridden"
According to the woman, Doris Toumarkine, Oscar (the boy-victim) is "appropriately guilt-ridden."
The claim that the imbalances and injustices in statutory rape laws are the fault of men is nothing but typical feminist lies and evil.
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Well my personal experience of how males and females differ in their opinions on this issue differs from yours. Vastly more males trivialize and make light of women having sex with boys than the other way around.
You need to associate more with men who don't trivialize the sexual abuse of boys by women. The men you associate with are feminists.
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Just like you do and your pedophile loving friends? Sorry, you aren't going to find many here that trivialize it.
Exactly, if Lorianne wants to be with men who trivialize the sexual abuse of boys by women, she'd better go back to her friends. She won't find much of that type of sickness here.
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Boy the head in the sand stuff is amazing here. I wonder how far some of you will go to deny men don't trivialize and make light of women/boy sex?
Really? As a man who was sexually used and abused at the hands of a female, it was the women who asked me, "What? Didn't you like it? Are you queer?"
So go put your own head back in the sand. And you've made quite a few asserations here from "Personal experience," yet you have repeatedly in the past dismissed such vignettes from men as "merely ancedotal." Pick one and be consistant.
---- Burn, Baby, Burn ----
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Since everyone in prison has no control over their own lives, they of course develop a hierarchy, with rapists and child molesters at the bottom.
About 70% of the people I met in the prisons were pretty decent, honest, civil, caring people - exactly the same as anyone you would meet outside. About 25% were seriously out of touch with reality (Pill Line was held several times daily for those folks, to insure they got medication). About 5% were, near as I could tell, pretty much sociopaths. (Of course, I didn't go into Max very often.)
The difference between the majority of the people inside and the people outside, as far as I am able to tell, is that the people inside aren't outside, are usually more poorly educated, and tend to think a lot more about ethics and morals than the people outside. Otherwise they are just as much (or as little) cliquish, self-centered, judgemental, arbitrary and grasping as most of the people outside the gate.
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Not the point and you know it. You guys can create your own little insulated world here and pretend the outside world doesn't exist if you want. Fine with me. But you know I'm right that MOST men trivialize woman/boy sex.
And no, my experience is not with friends but with co-workers, working on Statuatory Rape issue politically, and being in many online discussions on these issues. The vast majority of men don't find it a big deal and that is a problem if you are into any kind of activism on this issue. You've got an uphill battle with MEN on this issue.
Of course, ignoring that is easier than facing it.
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Most women IME think the laws should be equal... MOST men trivialize woman/boy sex
This is called blaming the victim.
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"Well my personal experience of how males and females differ in their opinions on this issue differs from yours. Vastly more males trivialize and make light of women having sex with boys than the other way around."
Probably cuz they think women should be virgins until marriage; good thing they don't know about your past.
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"You need to associate more with men who don't trivialize the sexual abuse of boys by women. The men you associate with are feminists."
Probably NAMBLA members as well.
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"Thank you, Aaron. As usual, Lorianne as a feminist blames the victims when the victims are male. I've never heard men downplay the inequalities of statutory rape laws, but I've heard women, feminists, on countless occasions blame the male victims."
Of course; when women are sexual it's "liberation" but when men are sexual it's "lewd" etc. This is the main hypocrisy by which feminists intimidate men through undeserved guilt and shame, when in reality it's like liberal gun-control in that only affects the innocent.
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by Anonymous User on Saturday April 19, @12:38AM EST (#49)
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We can't forget that feminazis not only enjoy women-boy sex but they love "colonizing" little girls into psuedo-lesbianism.
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"Boy the head in the sand stuff is amazing here. I wonder how far some of you will go to deny men don't trivialize and make light of women/boy sex?"
I get it-- males have the right to excuse abuse of other males, as if it's one big entity; this assinine logic explains a lot about our societal double-standards regarding differing standards protection.
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"Not the point and you know it. You guys can create your own little insulated world here and pretend the outside world doesn't exist if you want. Fine with me. But you know I'm right that MOST men trivialize woman/boy sex."
So you agree with the notion of rule by plebiscite? May you dine with cannibals and vote on the main course.
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by Anonymous User on Saturday April 19, @01:21AM EST (#53)
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Besides your pedophilia loving friends do you have any proof of this or is all you can provide is anecdotes. Can you provide a couple news stories at least written by men that are opposed to changes in rape laws.
I'm wondering when your out allegedly trying to change the laws and a man joins your cause outraged about boy rape do you also tell them to shut up about it.
Sorry I work in the outside world all the time, I work with men that have been thrown away by society many of them abused.
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As a matter of fact I DID fight the inequality of statuatory rape laws in my state. If we're going to have statuatory rape laws, they should be equal. In the USA they are not equal in many states but many people are working so that they will be.
I don't know about NZ but it sounds like they need to get busy changing their laws.
I didn't say I don't care about the boy. I'm talking about the law. As it stands now, the women broke no laws.
We aren't asking for extradition of Abu Abbas because he broke no US laws in killing Leon Klinghoffer in the Mediteranean 19 years ago. That doesn't mean we're endorsing what he did or saying we don't care about the victim. We cared enough to change our laws.
It sounds to me like the entire judicial system in NZ didn't care about boys having sex with adult women from WAY back since there has not been a law prohibiting women from having sex with boys ever. Or maybe it was just an oversight. In any case, they need to change that.
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I was responding to the fact part of the lead post which says there is a double standard. There are lots of double standards in laws, particularly in statutatory rape laws. For example there is a stricter law for males who have sex with boys, than for women who have sex with boys (and ditto for same sex female situations) because the framers of the laws felt a homosexual act with a minor was more grievous offense than a heterosexual one.
Even in places where men and women are equally prohibited from sexual acts with minors, the laws are tougher on same-sex sexual acts. That's a double standard as well. The reason double standards exist is because framer's of laws overlay their own moral code onto the laws.
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I was responding to the fact part of the lead post which says there is a double standard. There are lots of double standards in laws, particularly in statutatory rape laws.
Who was it that pointed out the pheminist tendancy towards statistical mporality? The obvious implication, whether or not you state it explicitly, is that having lots of double standards makes one more okay.
For example there is a stricter law for males who have sex with boys, than for women who have sex with boys (and ditto for same sex female situations) because the framers of the laws felt a homosexual act with a minor was more grievous offense than a heterosexual one.
And? A point would be nice?
Even in places where men and women are equally prohibited from sexual acts with minors, the laws are tougher on same-sex sexual acts. That's a double standard as well. The reason double standards exist is because framer's of laws overlay their own moral code onto the laws.
Oh, goody. So if I make double standard laws it's okay because other people do too, as long as there is a reason, my conscience can be clean, eh? No? Yes?
BFHD. Other people do it too. Doesn't make it any less heinous.
I'd propose this - have the law struck down in toto, giving free rein to all pedophiles until they enact one that isn't biased and bigoted. In the meantime, for that duration, it's open season on the daughters of pheminists to any dirty old man who cares to get his noodle wet with some of that "young stuff." Hit the old bats where it hurts them. Hey, ain't equality grand?
Horrific? Indeed? How is it not, then, any less heinous that your sons are free prey to any sicko woman who has a fetish?
Oh, I forget. They're only mere males.
---- Burn, Baby, Burn ----
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by Anonymous User on Thursday April 17, @06:07PM EST (#6)
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This demonstrates the feminist concept of "equality." - As long as females are protected and promoted -things are equal.
Laws are passed, and only one gender is regarded. Most feminist doctrine is structured this way. One set of standards for women, and another for men.
The contemporary feminist model is bordering on complete hypocrisy, and the only way they (feminists) can keep it alive is to exacerbate the societal issues that a few men have, and to make these aspects of male behavior criminal.
Newspapers where I live always publish stories about (alleged) rapes that occurred thousands of miles away, just so that the papers will always have anti-male stories to publish, so that feminist doctrine (ranting) will always have fuel to ignite anti-male sentiment. This comes in handy for promoting social change.
Feminist groups which have enacted all (or much) of the laws relating to sexual crimes all over the planet, mostly consider only crimes against women to be important, and in the process these feminists are willing to break down due-process so that "gender correct" results will be realized.
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by Anonymous User on Thursday April 17, @08:40PM EST (#14)
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Exactly. The extent of anti-male bias in newspapers is astonishing. Probably because must of the male reporters are to chicken to say anything about it, and all the female reporters hate men.
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You're howling at the moon. IME most men find nothing wrong with this particular double standard. Trying to pin this one on "feminists" is absurd.
You need to proselytize among men.
I've been in countless discussions on this topic and MOST men simply do not find woman/boy sex a problem at all much less a legal one. Most women IME think the laws should be equal. But by all means, keep making up stuff.
I know what I've heard and read and MOST men simply don't find it a problem. I've been actively involved with updating the statuatory rape laws in my state and I can tell you that it is largely women, not men, who wish to change the laws to be equal vis a vis their sons. Many of the women I worked with said their husbands did not care about the issue at all unless it was another man having sex with a minor boy.
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by Anonymous User on Thursday April 17, @11:13PM EST (#21)
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"Most women IME think the laws should be equal. But by all means, keep making up stuff."
You need to shut this bullshit up. I know from fucking experience that this isn't the case. "most women" my ass. Is this why the sexual abuse of males is given second status to that of girls, especially when it's women who dominate the area of sexual abuse/assaults??? You'd think if it were really women who cared they'd fucking say something since they have the resources to SAY SOMETHING!!! I know what women say about this, I'm highly sensitive to this whole area, I notice it all, much more than you I'd imagine, and I know that the sexual assualt and abuse of males isn't even understood by most people and most of all women! Your nationalism towards the female gender shows so clearly from your statements on this thread it borders on the ridiculous. You obviously haven't talked or listened to men who have been sexually assaulted. Do you realize that this victimization of men is kept even more secreted from your own "sisters" by the fact that they make men/boys who have been abused afraid to speak up about it because they fear they will be seen as potential child molestors and thus fear ostracism and abandonment by society if they speak up? You are such a fucken joke!
Aaron.
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by Anonymous User on Friday April 18, @01:08AM EST (#28)
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Thank you Aaron for expressing the rage many abused men or men that deal with other abused men feel.
I wonder why Lorraine comes here she seems to pay some sort of lip service to equality but then whenever men speak up she minimizes and trivializes there pain and anger at injustice. In typical warped feminazi logic she then somehow after trivializing men's experiences makes it the fault of men. It's funny how she seems to mention repeatedly how men need to speak up, then she attempts to silence them when they do. What the hell does she think this site is about? I figure that's the point of this site for men to speak up. Maybe we are just biting at troll bait when we respond to her.
Since Lorraine like many feminazis uses personal experience as back up for arguments I'll add mine to yours Aaron. I was sexually harrased in high school, when I was walking down the hall a women grabbed my crotch not in a violent manner but in a sexual manner in a attempt to humiliate me. Women laugh this off when told of it or consider that I must have liked it. Two years ago the residence I work at recieved government funding to open up a program to provide beds for homeless men and women. I was put in charge of this and included in the program was a questionarre to track why people are homeless. I included fleeing from sexual abuse on the questionarre for men. The women that work in the back office had a great laugh over this. They did set up and hired women to do the interviews with the ladies that came for the homeless women part of the program since they figured it would be intimidating for a mere man to ask the questions. Needless to say considering there are at least a half dozen female shelters in the city the program for women closed down after two months because of lack of intrest.
"men/boys who have been abused afraid to speak up about it because they fear they will be seen as potential child molestors and thus fear ostracism and abandonment by society if they speak up?"
I have also experienced people that hold this view. These types figure that a man who is sexually abused will automatically become an abuser or is at great risk of becoming an abuser. Similiar to my earlier post about prison rape where feminazis claim that men who are raped become rapists. It's a great feminazi tactic, turn male victims into victimizers or potential victimizers.
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by Anonymous User on Friday April 18, @05:16AM EST (#33)
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"I know from fucking experience that this isn't the case. "most women" my ass. Is this why the sexual abuse of males is given second status to that of girls, especially when it's women who dominate the area of sexual abuse/assaults??? You'd think if it were really women who cared they'd fucking say something since they have the resources to SAY SOMETHING!!!"
Yeah you would think that if most women do want to help boys/men they would open up some of there shelters to them and spend some of there precious government funding on helping them.
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I know from fucking experience that this isn't the case. "most women" my ass. Is this why the sexual abuse of males is given second status to that of girls, especially when it's women who dominate the area of sexual abuse/assaults???
I understand your anger, Aaron. Lorianne is truly one of the most disturbed, hateful people that I have ever encountered. Sadly, her hatred for men and little boys will probably never be cured, given the support her disease is given in this society.
Your nationalism towards the female gender shows so clearly from your statements on this thread it borders on the ridiculous.
Actually, her attitudes toward men and little boys are psychopathic. She is a deeply disturbed person. Try not to let her get to you with her hatred.
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by Anonymous User on Saturday April 19, @04:02PM EST (#55)
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Lorianne's comments indicate to me considerable narrow-mindedness and utter lack of compassion for men. But I believe that many men, including myself, have encountered much more hateful, much more disturbed persons. I have women friends deny in absurd ways the facts about domestic violence that I've presented to them. I've seen women treat men in unbelievable cruel and brutal ways.
Consider some of the feminist actions discussed here. Just look at Martha Burke and her priorities in social justice. Just look at all the feminist lawyers working to have males convicted as rapists unless they can be proven innocent. Look at the whole bogus DV industry, working to add more men to the huge number of men already jailed.
Lorianne at least gets some credit for showing up here. Maybe she's trying to understand more, and just hasn't succeeded yet.
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by Anonymous User on Thursday April 17, @11:23PM EST (#22)
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"You need to proselytize among men"
You don't even know how much anger you have raised in me with your self righteous condescending attitude, you're ignorance would be easier to forgive if it weren't for that.
(I may reply later to let off more steam)
Aaron
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I believe Lorraine is largely correct in her assessment of mens' own double standards . I loathe most of her postings here as much as you guys, however, men do hold women to a standard different than they hold their brothers. Anti male feminism has a misandrist companion...anti male chauvinism. IME men do think less harshly of a woman having sex with an under age boy than they do of a man having sex with an underage girl. Many men will hunt down the SOB who had sex with his little sister or daughter, but will not lift a finger or give a hoot about the woman who had sex with his little brother or son.
In fact men love to belittle men. Upon release from jail a man will hear from his (friends?) "did you bend over for the soap in the shower..hahaha." Male prison rape is a subject that many (not all) men and women (not all) find entertaining and funny. However, men do not treat lightly female prison rape. Male sexual mutilation is another topic men smile about. Remember Bobbitt? I was disgusted at the number of men that thought that was entertaining...women too! A group of men will stand and watch a woman beat up a man. But, they will jump in and stop a guy from beating a woman. Remember Clara Harris? Many men bent over backwards to exculpate her and assasinate the character of her dead husband. Remember Andrea Yates? Many men were blaming her actions on her husband. Men are nuts sometimes! In a bar, if a woman decides she doesn't care for you she may throw her drink in your face, slap you, kick you in your genitals...other men will laugh and heroically step in and say "is he bothering you"? The male victim's pain and humiliation is snickered at, many men use that as a way to step in and gain the female's approval.
To be sure, an adult woman having sex with a child should be frowned upon the same as if a man was with a child. However, I believe that the discrepency between genders is two pronged. Women are excused too often, and men are crucified too easily. A 45 year old man/woman having sex with a 12 year old is one thing. A 20 year old with a 15 year old is completely different. Each case is different, except for men...who largely are treated as predators under any fact situation.
You guys here are not the norm. Many guys are not so enlightened as you are. Most do not even know that there is a mens' movement. Not that I am trying to stick up for Lorraine, but I am only trying to point out that she has a valid point. Many men are anti male chauvinists, and they don't even know it. I guess that's what a lifetime of brainwashing will do.
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As far as Lorianne’s earning respect (not yours, Tor) for her relentlessness, I must say that the spreading of hatred secures nothing but my contempt, unyielding and adamant though that hatred may be. Though he was Minister of Propaganda and not a hands-on executioner, Joseph Goebbels was no less vile, evil, relentless, and guilty than Rudolf Hoess, commandant of Auschwitz, who said, “it was something already taken for granted that the Jews were to blame for everything." (Change the word “Jews” to “males” and you have what modern movement?)
Regarding your post, Tor, there is no doubt that there are male chauvinists, chivalrists (is that a word?), and feminists who are anti-male. I've written of them myself, and I agree with you that is a serious mistake to excuse men who are responsible for the oppression of men. I do not agree with Lorianne, however, that “MOST men trivialize woman/boy sex.” I wonder Tor: Though you know of culpable men, do you believe that “MOST men trivialize woman/boy sex?” Again, I do not believe it.
As for the culpability of feminists, I realized some time ago that the promotion of pedophilia by women is becoming increasingly common among feminists. Bebe Neuwirth certainly seems to be a feminist. See this
page, which states "the actress (Neuwirth) became so choked up after hearing a tale about growing up in a violent household that she could barely continue the show. Neuwirth, unable to speak without her voice cracking, was forced to take some time out to regain her composure before introducing the startled audience to the event's next speaker, Gloria Steinem. When the famous feminist (Steinem) finally came onstage, she took a moment of her own to applaud Neuwirth's honesty. Guess sisterhood is powerful." And Ms. Neuwirth won a Feminist Film Award in 1998. She certainly seems to be a feminist.
Regarding Sigourney Weaver, we find here a statement on how she became a feminist hero. Many more feminist credentials could probably be found for both of these people.
Neuwirth and Weaver are the two main female characters in the movie “Tadpole,” where a 40-year-old woman seduces a drunk 15-year-old boy. It’s all good fun and comedy, of course.
Here we read of the feminist, Germaine Greer’s lust for boys. She states, "Everyone thinks the only people who like looking at pictures of boys - and I mean boys, not men - are gay men but that's not true. I, for one, love looking at them… I just can't let it go. Working on it has been the best fun in the world, because it is a book of pictures of ravishing boys… I'd like to reclaim for women the right to appreciate the short-lived beauty of boys - real boys, not simpering 30-year-olds with shaved chests… The snag is that everywhere I turn I find new pictures of outrageously lovely boys and it's too late to get them into the book but I keep downloading them, scanning them and printing them, just in case and just for fun."
And we’ve discussed on this board the excusing of pedophilia committed by women, and even the claiming that pedophilia by women can be a good thing because of women’s alleged nurturing nature, while stating that pedophilia by men is a terrible thing, given men’s allegedly aggressive and oppressive nature. Apparently, the original Chicago Tribune article is no longer available online but you can see the discussion of it here. Note, from the introduction to the thread, “Eric Zorn (one of the two writers) wanted to know why the boys (who were victims of pedophilia) were not suspended because "they should have known better", and he diminished the felony charges (against the perpetrators) because it is "every teenage boy's fantasy." Mary Schmich (the other of the two writers) states that men are predators when engaging in sex with underage girls, but women are innocent because they are "just having relationships" with young boys. I don’t know the feminist credentials of these two characters, but the well-known and admitted feminist, Ellen Goodman, has to the best of my recollection written the same sort of tripe. (I think we’ve discussed at least one article by her on the subject on this board. Perhaps someone else has a link.)
Most egregious is the glorification of woman-perpetrated pedophilia by feminist, Eve Ensler in her Vagina Monologues. In this play, which is extremely popular on college campuses, a 13 year old girl named Coochie Snorcher, after being plied with alcohol and seduced by a 26 year old woman, states in the play’s original version, "Some people would call this rape. I say it was a good rape." In the later version of the Vagilogs Coochie Snorcher says, "She's very thorough. She tells me to always know how to give myself pleasure so I'll never need to rely on a man.”
It is extremely important for us to realize that the acceptance (Ms. Neuwirth, Ms. Weaver), promotion (Ms. Goodman [?]), and glorification (Ms. Ensler) of pedophilia by women are MAJOR items on the feminist agenda today. We also need to be prepared for the fact that the more good, honest people expose this foul agenda, the more stridently and relentlessly feminists will scream that it is men’s fault.
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Sorry, I hit the "Submit" button, when I wanted to hit the "Preview" button, so I didn't get to proofread my whole, last post. The page where we discussed the Chicago Tribune article is here.
As for typos, well, that's the way it goes when you submit without proofreading.
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Hi Thomas, thank you for your thoughtful response to my post. I completely understand what you are saying. Whether or not MOST men trivialize woman/boy sex I do not know. How many do, I don't know. However, many men do trivialize such matters. Too many. It just seems that men and women both view man/girl sex more harshly than woman/boy sex. The Eric Zorn column is a good example. What made that situation egregiously abhorrent was that the woman in that case was the boy's school teacher. There was a position of power and trust (fiduciary relationship) that was breached. Zorn and Schmich must have been out of their minds when they wrote that piece. A gross example of the application of a double standard. Very disturbing and harmful journalism. In any rational light, their assertions are indefensible and recklessly discriminatory.
The movie "Tadpole" is another prime example of the horrific double standard employed against males. It is worthy to note however that the hollywood establishment gave the green light to portray such a plot "in good fun and comedy, of course." Furthermore, not only does "Tadpole" portray in an acceptable entertaining fashion the statutory rape of a minor boy, it also portrays as acceptable and entertaining the sexual exploitation of a male (of any age) who is in a drunken state. The movie is morally and ethically repugnant on both counts and should be called on it.
There is no doubt that paedophilia by women is largely excused, and there is also no doubt that men are labeled as sexual predators merely because a 20 year old guy is having sex with his girlfriend two months shy of her 17th birthday!
Greer's appreciation of "pictures of young boys" is not in itself deviant. Both young boys and young girls possess the special magic and beauty of youth. I don't see anyhting wrong with an appreciation thereof. Nevertheless, a male would be crucified if he were to express an appreciation for the beauty of young girls. Double standard no doubt. I remember once not too long ago I found myself gazing at the beauty of children playing joyously in the park. I regained my composure and turned away when it dawned on me that I could be locked up just for looking in their direction...pervert, pervert!!! A woman would have no such concern (nor risk). What a sad world we live in.
The import of my post was not to debate whether MOST men or most women hold a certain viewpoint. Rather the focus of my piece was merely to point out that some men(too many) do engage in demeaning, harmful, denigrating misandrist attitudes and actions that in the end hurt all men. The examples that I listed are quite disturbing to me, for the enlightened men on this forum I'm sure they found them equally as disturbing and repugnant.
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Greer's appreciation of "pictures of young boys" is not in itself deviant.
True, but given the current situation of numerous feminists accepting, promoting, and even glorifying pedophilia committed by women, it strikes me as sinister. Once these people feel empowered enough to form the North American Woman Child Love Association (NAWCLA), they'll probably be getting group discounts when they purchase Greer's book. ;)
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not only does "Tadpole" portray in an acceptable entertaining fashion the statutory rape of a minor boy, it also portrays as acceptable and entertaining the sexual exploitation of a male (of any age) who is in a drunken state.
Damn good point.
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I was more drawn into the argument by the flippant comments Lorraine had made, with no respect for the boy in the article or for others here that might also suffer.
I think you are right there are a number of men that don't care as much about this issue. To be honest though I have never read an article by a man supporting women-boy sex, I've only read feminazi journalists supporting it. I've also only heard of movies or books supporting female pedophiles written by feminazis. Even though they may exist I've never read a article by a male journalist that supports this deviant behaviour.
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True and well put, Andrew.
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This isn't suprising, New Zealand is a bastion of feminazi power, more so then the states or even Canada. I think the magazine Gender Lens is from New Zealand. Gender Lens feminazis have given up pretending that equality is the goal of feminism and instead believe all laws and situation should be viewed through the eyes of a women, well a feminazi gender lens women that is.
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by Anonymous User on Thursday April 17, @09:06PM EST (#17)
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Friends:
Through all lawful means available, hammer away at the tyrannical walls that are the bastions of feminazism, until they topple like the other Hitler's who have tried to oppress the decent and good people that they make their victims.
Never tire or lose heart, because your righteousness is your might, and their evil is the weakness in their corrupt and crumbling supports.
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I actually lived in New Zealand from 1977 to 1987, when I returned to the United States as a young adult. It's a rather interesting place because there is an unusual split between the natural beauty of the countryside contrasted with the near-socialist nature of the political and cultural system. (Note: while my screen name is equalitarian62, it refers to gender equality, not the political doctrine of egalitarianism).
During my years at Auckland University I was appalled by the anti-male sentiment by the feminists there - and this was the early to mid 1980s. One year the university newspaper was run by a particularly hateful radical feminist, who published the most misandric articles I've ever read. One "poem" insulted boys as having a "tail in front," while another article discussed inner-city women who fantasized about killing their young sons before they grew up to be "abusive men." One student's protest against the latter article resulted in a dismissive response to the effect of him being "paranoid."
Even the "Listener," NZ's equivalent of the TV guide, routinely carried stories portraying men in a negative light. I recall an interview of some nasty woman who made the asinine statement to the effect that society needs more female nurturing as all males are good at is uriniating on the side of trees. How insightful - NOT!
Needless to say, what I observed at Auckland University and in the media there contributed to my becoming a men's advocate years after returing to the United States.
I can only imagine what it's like now with a feminist female Prime Minister (Helen Clark). Too bad that an otherwise scenic country with a relatively small population (3.8 million) is under such a malevolent cultural influence.
Steve
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we have to realize that, traditionally, societies has dealt with the lack of adequate "acceptable" outlets for male sexual needs via allowing them to visit prostitutes from the age of puberty onward, while female sexual needs were blamed on anything from demonic possession or "poltergeists" etc. to "hysteria."
Such legal double-standards reflect this hypocricy in societal puritanism; however, such visitation was always under parental supervision, and was never tolerated when local spinsters or housewives slutted with their boys of their own accord, while any double-standard was out of a demand for "sexual purity" of females, so that they might remain virgins basically be sold as "unsoiled goods."
However, with "sexual liberation," there's no longer this excuse for such a double-standards; however, the prejudice remains, and young girls-- realizing the value of virginity in their price of marriage-- have even taken to non-vaginal slutting in order to leave their hymens intact.
Likewise, there's absolutely no proof that man-girl statutory rape is necessarily any more harmful than woman-boy-- rather the reverse-- but again we allow emotional reasoning and mob rule to rule out over logic and evidence in creating laws to please the mob rather than protect the individual.
And naturally, the feminist mob is wholly indifferent to male rights, but will go global thermonuclear against even the most mild and technical forms of the reverse.
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by Anonymous User on Sunday April 20, @10:51AM EST (#61)
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But at least you came here and at least read something to form your opinion. That means that hopefully you'll realise that your sort of vicious cowardly manhating is really a minority sport - that men refuse to take it lying down anymore - and your man-hating feminist outlook is not accepted by the mainstream.
Best of all, I really really hope you read something here that stuck in your throat and made you realise that no matter how much you wish, men will never ever become extinct (unless women do too) - and I hope you can't sleep tonight in that knowledge.
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