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I agree Ragtime. It was sweet.
The man was portrayed in a very favorable light. He was shown as trying to take on the charge for murder in order to protect his son. He did everything he could to keep his son out of things. The mother was obviously portrayed as abusive, impulsive, out of control and vicious.
Great moment. The JAG web page has a little feedback link at the bottom left. I left them a note of heart felt thanks. They have my vote.
Stand Your Ground Forum
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by Anonymous User on Thursday October 10, @05:59PM EST (#3)
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I just wrote and thanked them. This is very encouraging news.
These things seem to come right when I'm feeling in despair. Sweet.
Marc
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This is somewhat on topic but I would like to thank Ragtime for taking time out of his schedule to help me with my speed to the Mensa Gathering in North York next week.
The subject I will bring up will be DV against men and how it is in fact more of a two way street. I will even try to make comment about this perticular episode of JAG to show how it is actually getting into pop culture somewhat.
Ragtime was going to do the speaking engagement himself but business had come up instead. I mentioned this before but I wanted to thank him again. I'd also like to thank Scott for getting those flyers on the site. I have printed one off and I intend to make copies to hand out to the attendees. This will no doubt for good or for bad give awareness to the men's activism network site.
I am also scheduled to be on a radio station for the 24th of October and I will be mentioning the men's activism site there as well. The topic I will try to concentrate on also will be Domestic Violence against men.
My hopes will be to destroy the myths and the anti-male bigotry created by the DV industry as well as make awareness for men's issues. I believe that by working together we can overcome this problem and destroy the industry as a perpetuator of violence to bring it to its knees and force it to work for a solution to wellbeing for us as individuals and for us as man and woman co-authors of our own fate. Im not sure if I will be mentioning the JAG episode or not, I think I will if I remember.
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Dan Lynch
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I'd like to second the thanks to Scott for putting the flyers on the site. Recently, a University of Georgia-affiliated organization put up flyers about DV all around campus. This would not be upsetting, were it not for the fact that there was a large prominent picture of a man attacking a woman to illustrate what DV looked like.
I called the person in charge of the flyers, and politely pointed out my concerns about this, and shared some of the statistics and articles about men as victims, and she listened, but maintained that she believed that the decision was justified. I decided that I would put up some of the men's activism flyers right near all of their flyers that I could find. I'm still working on getting them out there, and one is displayed on my office door. What has been heartening is that many of the women who I've talked to about the UGA flyers have expressed distaste over the use of the picture, as well.
And I'm gonna send a message out to JAG for that episode. I'll have to see if I can find anyone who has it recorded, as I missed it.
Sean
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"I called the person in charge of the flyers, and politely pointed out my concerns about this, and shared some of the statistics and articles about men as victims, and she listened, but maintained that she believed that the decision was justified. "
In war time it is up to the papers and media to de-humanize the 'enemy'. To devalue them as individuals to make it easeir and more justified to 'kill' them.
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Dan Lynch
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by Anonymous User on Friday October 11, @03:37PM EST (#13)
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Sean.
That is a WONDERFUL idea, putting Your flyers near the "Man attacking woman" ones.
Ray and I had been discussing 'flyer placement' as well. and your idea helps me alot in that department! If I see any similar flyers as the "Man attacking woman" ones, where I live, I now know EXACTLY where I will put my flyers, right near THEIRS!
THANK YOU!
PS. Don't feel bad, I missed the JAG episode, too.
Thundercloud.
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1st let me say I'm ecstatic that this show made it on the air and received wide distribution. It's about time.
2nd, we've been revising our NCFMLA flyer, adding more to it, making it better. 3 of us spent a lot of time working on the wording last weekend, and we've been spending even more time on it this week.
Sunday it struck me that I had just printed 1000 of the old ones that were now outdated so I went to one of the biggest parks in L.A. and was able to put 700 of them under the drivers side winshield wiper before I pooped out. It was high 90's and smoggy that day. As I was trudging back to my car with the last 17 in my hand a car honked and a young guy gave a "thumbs up" and said something I couldn't quite make out, but he was definitely very pleased. Men are really tired of all the P.C. radical feminism male bashing, and the reaction I've been getting from men and women alike is just like the comments we're reading here about the JAG episode. "Finally, someone is doing something. Finally the the truth is going mainstream."
Frankly, I have to say I'm moderately encouraged, and that's saying a lot considering all the long, excoriating, sarcastic, bitter harangues on radical feminism I've posted on this site. I still have a feeling they're far from acquiescing to anything like a live and let live attitude toward men, but at this point in time I'll take all the good news I can get and be grateful.
Regards,
Ray
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by Anonymous User on Friday October 11, @03:22PM EST (#12)
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Actually, this show DOES have a pretty good sized Female viewing audience. That is a HUGE plus, in my oppinion. Usually, Women are used to being told the whole, "Women are 100% innocent 100% of the time." jazz.
My bet is, Alot of women were very suprised to see the usualy "female-friendly" media stateing the (rarely told) facts, for a change.
I'm warry, but I hope this may be a 'turning of the tide'. But I'm not holding my breath. (no pun intended.)
Thundercloud.
Hoka-hey!
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(Below is a second draft of my speech, I have decided to dedicate it to Erin Pizzey and run off from there, any suggestions and or advice will be greatly appreciated thanks. Dan Lynch)
Erin Pizzey
Erin Pizzey back in 1971 is accredited with being the first person to open a shelter for abused women. She is the author of numerous books including 'Scream Quietly or the Nieghbors will hear' as well as 'Prone to Violence' an online book that was origannally in paperback but is a rare find and according to some worth a tremendous amount. To my understanding it is now in reprint.
It has been over 30 years for Erin doing her work in the feild.
Its funny, you'd think they would be having an Erin Pizzey day , or parades in her honour. Even Memorabilia or constant mention for her contribution on TV, Radio or newspaper. Hell even mention on all those numerous pamplets that are circulated or billboards about Domestic Violence that can be seen all across the UK, Canada the US, right down to Australia and New Zealand.
What instead she got was Ostracsim and death threats. Pizzey has been cast out of certain circles for her statements. She has been denied webspace at nearly every Domestic Violence site there is.
You wouldn't think that people would be burning or trashing her books in every English speaking country in the world to the point that it has been found that their are only about two known copies of her book Prone to Violence left in Canada.
How did this pioneer come about in deserving such wrath from fellow dv councilors and feminists what did she do to extract such hate? Erin stated that woman were also abusers not just in self defence and just as equally too if not more than men.
During Erin's book tour she had to have armed guards escort her across the UK because she was getting bomb threats and death threats and according to her they were not by men or husbands they were by the very councilors and feminists who were screaming the mantra of the day, that men were the perpetuators of domestic violence in 95% of all cases.
Erin's observations are reinforced by every objective data ever accumulated in the last 30 years.
The research team of Richard Gelles, Murray Straus, and Susan Steinmetz is a show example who started their research in the early 70s. The team also had the same assumptions about Domestic Violence according to them. They believed that women were the victims and that men were the victimizers.
Gelles later realized that he had made a giant mistake. Gelles had made a note of a knife attack on the husband by the wife. Gelles had made this as a side note and not as a primary note in his original research. It was years after before he realized that what he had done was such an error. That the wife had not attacked in 'self-defence' but rather in attack. It boggled his mind that he did not consider a knife attack an act of violence.
The team soon changed its methodology now with the inclusion of female on male violence. Ultimately the team came to the conclusion just like Erin Pizzey did a decade an half before was that women were contributing to the violence in homes at near equal rates. That women were just as violent as the men they were living with. That the violence was not always in self-defence but because of a multitude of variables from heredity to selfishness.
It was deterrmined by not only the Gelles, Straus, and Steimetz team but by Pizzey that it was about a 50/50 street comprising of some men being the sole perpetrators in relationships that women sometimes are the sole abuser and that in other cases it was a 50/50 composition.
The team so far has come up with research that has been backed by over a hundred studies of objective researchers that it is around a 12% volley of families that deal with this problem.
Erin Pizzey in her own words felt that the Domestic Violence shelters were "hijacked" by 'feminists' with a clear cut anti-male agenda. Erin did not attempt to discredit this right away because she feared that money would be cut from the services and that all her work would go into retreat.
Erin eventually realized that she could take it no longer as she sat by and witnessed how the sheltres became an industry and a perpetuator of anti-male bigotry and propaganda. She describes how the shelters have turned into indoctrination camps for anti-male bias how unreasonable formulations were created out of these institutes. The constant held view is that women are not responsible for any and all of the abuse done to them. That any and all of the abuse that women have perpetuated towards men and children also was not their fault that they are innately the victim.
Erin's arguement is that women who have severe violent tendancies are not getting the proper help and treatment they desperately need. That by not taking responsibility for their actions the shelters are putting children and men at risk from further abuse thereby not breaking the cycle of violence and Erin accuses the Domenstic Violence industry of perpetuating violence.
Erin makes further accusations against the industry and all its offshoots. From councilors to lawyers. To university proffessors to judges and politicians and even police officers who either help to perpetuate the falsehoods or make a tremendous amount of money from all that is going on. The printing industry itself must make an absolute fortune in government and grant money that is used to print pamplets among other things.
Erin points out that the industry is desperately trying to get into the rural areas not to help communities but to destroy families and create anti-male bias and ultimately hostility between the sexes. Erin makes many harsh remarks about how many of these places are run. That they in many cases are lesbien indoctrination camps. Erin even sites a few cases where some lesbian women could not go to a local shelter because the women that were abusing them worked in them.
Erin continues in her work and in her books about how people can be 'prone to violence, in fact addicted to it. That many of them instigate the violence in order to get a thrill. She even makes notes in her research of how children respond to pain in a gleeful manor. Children as young as a few days.
Erin accuses the industry of creating more violence where as bills like 117 have such an unbalanced and unreasonable outline that ultimately more people are getting killed and that our rights are being taken away wholesale bit by bit minute by minute.
Because of the unbalance and unfairness in the system more violence is being perpetuated. There are moves to incarcerate men who are merely accused not convicted of assault as 'Dangerous Offenders' to take their liberties away from them permantly. To make men wear anklets of their whereabouts based on one person's word and one person alone. No evidence of any sort.
The mistake that is being made in ontario is that they have left these men with absolutely nothing, their homes have been taken their jobs lost, and their children virtually kidnapped. Men like Jamie Nelson who was accused falsely of rape by a serial accusor the night before a custody trial with his ex-wife. Jamie had proof that he was not even in the same city as the accusor who happened to be the best friend of his ex-wife , went to jail for 3 and half years. The Justice System is doing nothing to gain justice for her crime.
Jail is a horrendiously violent place. Where violence is a day to day moment to moment issue. Where Racial tension is at such a momentous affair it is no wonder that these men are getting out of jail or prison murdering their estranged spouse and then killing themselves.
The suicide rate for men all across the board is at such a highrate it is the highest cause of death between the ages of 24 and 45 in places like Australia. The standard is the same in Canada the US and the UK.
"In Canada, a University of Alberta study found 12 percent of husbands to be victims of violence by their wives and 11 percent of wives to be victims, but only the violence against women was published. Even when Earl Silverman, six years later, was able to get the data from an assistant who had helped prepare the original study, and then wrote it up himself, he was unable to get it published.
Similarly, another major Canadian study of dating couples found 46 percent of women vs. 18 percent of men to be physically violent. You guessed it. The 18 percent male violence was published immediately. Not only was the 46 percent female violence left unpublished, but the authors did not acknowledge in the Canadian Journal of Sociology that their study had ever included violence against men.
When a Canadian professor found out, he requested to see the data and was refused. It was only when he exposed the refusal in his next book, combined with another three more years of pressure, that the 46 percent female violence was releasd and published. By that time ('97) Canadian policy giving government support for abused women but not abused men had been entrenched. As were the bureaucracies; as were the private funding sources like United Way."
This type of thing continues even in research regarding sexual harrasment in highschools. While the harrassement against the girls is being widely publisized the harrassement against boys is completely ignored despite that the research found that the girls were doing just as much harrassing.
Even Mary Koss's research which is methodoligically flawed and critizised by many has found that the college men were at the same risk as the college women. Mary Koss claimed that 1 in 4 women were raped. Over 73% of the volunteers had no idea. They were not asked if they were raped and the test made such conclusions of rape based on simple flaws of if the person has a drink, and it only took one drink to meet the standards. Among other double barrelled questions. When the study was conducted by a highly regarded professional in the sexual assault feild she found that men too were also raped 1 in 4 under the same guiding principles as Mary Koss's study.
According to Amber Pawlik the president and founder of her women's club the IWC (Independant Women's Club) this type of blatent lie has harmed the 'dating scene' on campuses across north america. The very premise of her club is to bring back the 'dating scene'. To do away with one night stands that leave women feeling guilty and ashamed the next day over a sexual escapade the night before. Even Amber was confronted by workers from a local shelter to convince her to stop her club. Their claim was that Amber was putting women at risk of abuse and sexual assault for dating men. Amber reafirmed her stance on how the 'hook up scene' is whats causing a great deal of greif among the sexes and told the women that instead of 'taking back the night' they should be 'taking back their sanity'. It is Amber's belief that the message that these services are giving to women is one of victim mentality a creation of dependance and nothing more than short and simple fear mongering propaganda for a multitude of reasons that Erin Pizzey herself has mentioned publicly.
In a recent study by Murrey Straus, he has concluded from his research that much of the violence is an act of coersion. That the perpetrators were trying to get the other person to do something and that ultimately it was not one sex over the other that was more responsible.
As Erin Pizzey continues her work and points out that shelters have no real justification as to why they won't allow men on the premises. She adds that all tha rule does is fuel the hostility and reaffirm the indoctrination process of hating and fearing men as a sex instead of the individual who really harmed them. The sexes will have to drop their guard and redevelope trust to work hard on the issues of Domestic Violence and rape.
To work soft on the people and hard on the issues. Whether it be the misleading data from the wage gap to bolstered and falsified violence stats to find the real and objective core of the problem that can lead to a solution as men and women lovers and co-authors of their happy fate.
Dan Lynch
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I wanted to mention that a portion of my speech is an excerpt from one of Warren Farrell's books. In my rewrite it should start as "As Warren Farrell writes" , thanks.
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Dan Lynch
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Although I didn't see it, I sent a heart felt thanks to CBS for airing the episode. I also asked them to thank the writers of JAG for having the courage to break P.C. code and challenge the viewers to a more expansive education on domestic violence.
The more we educate and congratulate, the louder we become.
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by Anonymous User on Thursday October 10, @09:04PM EST (#5)
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Even though I didn't see the show, I wrote to them.
"I just wanted to thank you for finally having the guts to have an episode where you showed the other 'half' of domestic abuse. Thankyou for breaking the gender feminist lie that men are only violent. Thanks, I'm sick and tired of being the gender that's portrayed as the archetypal victimizer.
Jesse"
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This is definately great contraversy. This is a break threw moment which may change some heads.
I hope that this will lead to resolution and understanding. television is the greatest propaganda minister of all time.
Hopefully Glen Sacks can write something on it.
Also a great publicity stunt, of which I am not complaining. Expect fembots to girlcott.
.
Dan Lynch
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On a somewhat related topic, did anyone catch the episode of Law and Order which aired on Wed night Oct 9? It was about a young deceptive female murderer who got hers at the end. There was even an exchange between the two prosecutors in which the woman proscecutor made a point about the culpability of teenage girls in consensual relationships with older men. Or at least that's the way I interpreted it. It was a good episode.
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by Anonymous User on Friday October 11, @03:53PM EST (#14)
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Whoa, What is going ON, here?!?
TV shows showing "Bad" women! First JAG, now LAW and ORDER.
Maybe there IS a trend begining to emerge.
If there is, I guess I'll have to quit calling JAG; "DRAG" and LAW and ORDER; "FLAW and ODOR".
Just a word of "warning", though.
I don't want to see any "trend" going the OPPOSITE way, against WOMEN! Most Men know how that feels. Maybe a little of the; "Now you know how WE feel!" thing is justified, But I wouldn't want ANYONE to go through what we as Men have gone through the last 20 or so years.
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I agree. I wouldn't want to see that happen either. But I think the chances of that trend developing are remote.
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by Anonymous User on Sunday October 13, @02:54AM EST (#19)
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Collins.
Yeah. And maybe once we get this anti-man hate jazz out of the way, we will finally begin to see an end to any and all forms of "acceptable" hate towards ANY group in America, piriod.
...Man, THAT would be sweet.
Thundercloud.
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Thundercloud:
I would like to think that too, but I fear it is true what they say about "eternal vigilance being the cost of freedom." Couple that with "absolute power corupts absolutely," and I think maybe all human beings will need always be on their gaurd against power hungry, opportunistic individuals who use their empowerment to take advantage of those who are less empowered.
Ray
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by Anonymous User on Sunday October 13, @06:52AM EST (#21)
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Ray.
Agreed.
Yeah, I never expect we'll live in any type of "Utopia". But I try to be as optimistic as I can. Even though I am, as someone recently christened me, The "Eyore" of the men's movement. But as You say, We will indeed need to be eternaly vigalant. We may not get a "Uiopia", But perhaps someday, a reasonable facsimili. (spelling?)
Thundercloud.
'Hoka-hey!'
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Thundercloud:
What does "Eyore" mean???
Curious,
Ray
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by Anonymous User on Monday October 14, @03:00AM EST (#24)
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Ray.
Eyore is the gloom and doom, little donkey charecter from "Winnie the pooh".
No matter what, He sees the "down-side" of things.
I hate to be mean but Eyore was the only "Pooh" character that didn't make me sick to my stomach.
I grew up with those stories as a kid. (The A.A. Milline book stories, Not the 'Disney' cartoons.)
Recently, a friend of mine was talking with me about Men's issues, when I was feeling a bit discouraged, and he said, "Quit it. You're the 'Eyore' of the men's movement."
I thought it was funny.
Any way, that's who 'Eyore' is and how I got christened with the "nick-name".
Though I hope I'm not really THAT pessimistic.
Thundercloud.
"Hoka-hey!"
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by Anonymous User on Friday October 11, @03:09PM EST (#11)
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Tom.
*AArrgh!* No, I MISSED it!
Like Ragtime, I rarely watch "JAG".
Well, frankly, I NEVER watch it.
It was always to politicaly-correct and it's male characters always seemed "neutered", to me.
The show lost me when it kept airing episodes about 'sexual-harassment', (only against women.) 'DV', (only against women.) and harassment-in-the-military. (Again, only against women.)
To be fair, I did (hear) that they had done SOME male-freindly eps. But by that time, I was already like, "All right, so screw this..."
I wonder if this "JAG" episode is a fluke, or if some of the guys that write on these TV shows are getting tired of being dictated to by the feminist elite, as to the content of their 'storie lines'.
It would be great if alot of the Fem-boys were starting to rebel!
Being that there IS a cure to being a Fem-boy or Wussy-poopy. All one has to do is stand up and say, "Enough!"
Well, Only time will tell...,
Thundercloud.
'Hoka-hey!'
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I sent this email:
"Thank you from the bottom of my heart for your recent show that was truthful about how domestically violent women can be toward men, and that showed men are also victims of domestic violence. I commend your intergrity and courage to present such a truthful, but politically incorrect episode. God Bless You. Sincerely, Ray"
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