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by Anonymous User on Tuesday October 01, @12:46AM EST (#1)
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((("Will the male-bashing by corporations ever stop?")))
Alphamale.
Welcome to 2002 femi-NAZI AmeriKa.
It started out with Jew-bashing in Germany. We all know how THAT turned out.
It started out with Indian-bashing here in the states. We all know how THAT turned out.
It started out with Male-bashing every where in the western-world...,
Wonder how THAT will turn out...?
Thundercloud.
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by Anonymous User on Tuesday October 01, @06:47AM EST (#2)
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might i suggest that instead of simply seething in out outrage, we do something creative about this. perhaps a men's cookoff held just outside A&P? it would give everyone there the opportunity to see that men can cook too, perhaps extremely well. it would also eliminate the "oh, here they go again. whine whine whine" kneejerk reaction that i'm sure some of us have felt to other groups.
-brad
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by Anonymous User on Tuesday October 01, @11:53AM EST (#3)
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Good idea, Brad. What if donations for some good cause were also collected at the cookoff, a la "Real Men Cook," which is held every year on Father's Day to benefit inner city families (you can find their Web site here.)
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I agree, this does seem terribly whiny. "Deeply offended" indeed.
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Doing something is a great idea and a very masculine one at that.
OTOH men are often automatically accused of whining if the complain. Contrast that with women who have made the saying "The Personal is Political" into a mantra for change. Somehow it is all right if women complain and "tell their stories" but men had best just shut the fock up. This is one of the biggest burdens we face. There is a profound bias against men making complaints and a similarly profound bias that encourages women to complain and to be heard and to have men run around and fix whatever the hell they are complaining about! It's an extension of the "provide and protect hormone" that pulses through most men's veins and obviously through our legislators veins. I wish we could blame this one on the feminists...and they use it freely whenever possible...but they didn't start it. It's been here forever...they just put it to good use to fulfill their agenda. We need to hear each others complaints loud and clear and learn to stand in that tension before we start blaming and shaming each other by labeling the complainer as a whiner.
Stand Your Ground Forum
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"men are often automatically accused of whining if they complain", "We need to hear each others complaints loud and clear"
i hear what you're saying about this and i agree. there is a lot of tension which needs to be vented. we do need to make our points, as you say, loud and clear. but i don't know if this directly reactive stance is the best way to go about doing so.
ideally, i'd like to see groups of men dealing with negative male stereotypes and other men's issues in a way which speaks beneath the automatic defenses. if we loudly proclaim "men are subject to negative stereotypes", regardless of how true that may be, people will usually ignore what's being said; not due to the content but due to the way the content is conveyed.
if we use less reactive and more proactive methods (ie: proving the claims as false instead of saying we don't like them) we end up doing something. that, i believe, is what could be a major source of fuel for this movement's fire.
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Considering the deep hole that we find ourselves in that's so neatly been dug for us by the rad fems I have to say that all the ideas sound like good tools to try and whatever works best (individually or by group) is valid. i.e. Just because I can't fly a kite doesn't mean that you can't make it sail.
I really liked the idea about the barbecue:
#1 food
#2 In their face, "cook this A&P," very proactive, to the point, a positive message.
#3 Perhaps a sign saying, "This meat bought at (a competitors name) is found more tasteful to many men."
I'm getting hungry just talking about this. I wish you were closer. Cook one for me.
Good Luck,
Ray, NCFMLA
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Brad - Quite right. We must use our strength of action as a means to counter the accepted stereotypes. Action is a powerful masculine strength and will likely be our leading tool. I have seen too many times a man complain about a situation where he has been discriminated against and automatically shut down as being a whiner...this stops things dead in the water and the man never gets to the point of taking action. Just as thought precedes deed, the complaint and realization of bigotry precedes mature action to combat the imbalance.
This is not unlike the realms of emotional expression where men are shamed for feeling (he's a wimp)and shamed for not feeling! ("he's unfeeling and cold--typical man" sort of BS) It is a double bind. Men are shamed now for whining but also shamed for "not doing anything about the problem." We can begin to break this by honoring a man's complaints and encouraging action to bring awareness of the problems and negate stereotypes.
Stand Your Ground Forum
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What I would suggest is that the feminists may have achieved a certain success by whining and complaining, however, the backlash is occurring now. I would much rather push for fairness in the same way Gandhi did rather than appeal to alarm and emotion. Do we really want to look like the radical feminists? I certainly hope not.
John McElrath, M.S.
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by Anonymous User on Wednesday October 02, @10:22AM EST (#10)
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Yes it can and will stop. I've had much success over the years in having offensive commercials yanked singlehandedly. Often an email or a phone call would suffice. Businesses are easily intimidated when it comes to their advertising. What we poor men lack is effective organization. We also lack media access. Unlike everyone else we have no spokesmen who can get on the TV- the "reality zone" where the public discourse takes place in America. The day after Madeleine "Toogood" was outed by the media as being a member of the "Irish travellers", an attorney spokesman for the Roma (Gypsies) was on the air on Fox cable going to bat for her! See what I mean? She's not even a "real" Gypsy! Even a shitball like her has a media shill! Where are the people who would go on the air and talk about our concerns? That is what we need to correct. I am not annonymous. I am Leslie Farkas - email lfarkas@enteract.com Please write to me if you want to actually do something to turn the tide. I've had over 10 years experience (with over 80% success)in getting lousy ads and commercials pulled. And that was acting alone. I have a number of organizational and tactical ideas for increasing our effectiveness. Write. I especially want to hear from attorneys and public relations professionals. When we really get our act in gear these dark clouds will part- don't lose heart!
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by Anonymous User on Wednesday October 02, @10:57PM EST (#11)
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Mr. Farkas,
The main reason we men lack a "Spokesman" in the media, is because the media usualy turn a deaf ear (Deaf microphone?) to Men and Men's issues. It is one of the main problems faceing Men, Today. (You are probably aware of this allready.)
However, What you said sounds VERY incourageing. and I am interested in what types of tactics you have in mind.
You are right, it CAN be done.
Thundercloud.
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Friends:
Over the last 3 decades the abusive rhetoric of the radical feminist's agenda has wormed its way into every facet and nuance of our society. Their agenda has become so embedded in the politically correct psyche of business and government that they are dug in like ticks on a hound.
Let us not grow weary in rooting out this evil at every turn and juncture of its crooked path least we find a day, when even the freedoms we have now have become so tainted with feminist lies that we are but slaves in our own land.
Too late, for the Western world that day is already here so redouble your efforts in the Men's Movement to oppose them, and then redouble your efforts again. I will endeavor to take my own advice on this one.
Good Luck, We'll need it.
Ray
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