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I'm convinced we need to make our own publicity by creating events, small to start, then growing as we are able, that raise funds and consciousness. I'm working on an event myself called "A Country Barn Dance For Your Father" to be held the day before Father's Day 2003. It'll probably be small to start with, but I'd like for it to continue annually. I hope it'll grow.
We'll see...
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Another possibility (Your idea is fantastic, and I'm adding to it, not competing with it):
I don't know about in your area, but here in Dallas, a *huge* deal is made several times per year about the Komen "Race for a cure" for breast cancer--a run/walk benefiting awareness and research.
In answer, our local NCFM chapter has for the last 2 years participated in the Dad's Day 5k for Prostate Cancer Awareness and Research (we are not the primary organizers). The first year, we just walked as a group, then passed out brochures to the crowd. This year, we actually had a booth and distributed NCFM information, prostate cancer info and DV against men info, among other pro-male items.
Of course, the Dad's Day 5k gets **NO** media attention compared to the Komen Misandry Festival, but each year it is getting bigger, so we keep hoping for some day.....
David S.
Treasurer
DFW NCFM
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by Anonymous User on Tuesday October 01, @03:31AM EST (#5)
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((("Of course the Dad's Day 5k gets **NO** media attention compared to the Komen misandry Festival,")))
You see, Folks, That's just IT. MEN's issues get NO media attention. and if they DO, the media ignores them WHOLESALE!
The media works as an advertisement agent for Women's issues. They (the media) make GOOD and SURE the public is educated on all things female and what conserns females. They report the issue of BREAST CANCER on a near-daily basis. PROSTATE cancer, if ever mentioned at all, is reported on perhaps every two or three months. Again, if it is reported on AT ALL! The media makes CERTAIN that infomation is given about where donations for breast cancer research can be sent. I have NEVER seen this done for prostate cancer.
The same goes for Domestic violence. How many times have you seen a TV show that had an episode featureing the "problem of Domestic violence" (Always and ONLY against WOMEN)where at the end of the show they put a number up on the screen for BATTERED WOMEN'S SHELTERS? But NEVER Battered MEN'S shelters.
The question one has to ask is; WHY IS THIS??
It seems to me that the media WANTS to keep Men as UNINFORMED and UNDERFUNDED as possible. And it AIN'T just MY IMAGINEATION!!
Again I ask, WHY? what is to be gained by this?
It all just seems pretty damned odd.
I don't get it. I really don't.
On the other hand..., Maybe I do get it, ALL TOO WELL.
Thundercloud.
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I have to concede that I am not as much of a "do-er" as I'd like to be, but every now and then I come here and I get frustrated with all the whining that goes on. Before you all raise your hackles, let me just say that there are words of inspiration that I read here and stories of travails that I've never encountered myself, and I have great respect for that. But sometimes reading nothing but bitching and whining gets tiresome.
No one is going to hand this to us. We have to go and DO something. If that means having a barn dance or a walk-a-thon with little or no publicity, then so be it. If we're persistent and run a quality event and people are having fun, then the event will grow on its own and eventually the media can't help but notice.
My wife is not particularly enthralled with my involvement with this movement, so I had to explain to her why I had to do THIS (The country barn dance...). I told her I can complain and write letters to Senators and Presidents and to the Editor of the local paper, but I also have to do something positive. I have to be IN FAVOR of something.
Sorry, TC and others, if I sound preachy. I just reach a threshold every now and then.
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by Anonymous User on Tuesday October 01, @09:31PM EST (#8)
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Frank.
What you call "bitching" and "whining", Is often times a statement of information. All-beit an angry one at times.
We SHOULD be outraged by the way the media discriminates against men.
Many of us are frustrated as hell, and have EVERY right to be.
I never said that doing "positive" things like a "Barn dance" isn't a good thing to do. By all means, DO have a "Barn dance" and ANY thing else that is positive and helps the Men's movement.
But being ANGRY about what is happening to Men in this and other countries, is gonna be a GIVEN.
Also this website is a great way to let off steam. And a good many of us take advantage of that. For many Men there really is NO OTHER outlet!
When some Woman like Tawny Kitaen abuses Her husband and then is ordered to pay $500 dollars to a battered WOMEN'S shelter, What would you have me say...? "Oh fideldedee, pass the salt"?
No way! Things like this and countless other injustices to men make me MAD! VERY mad! And, frankly, I and other visitors are going to SAY so!
Something else (since your comments were basicaly directed at Me.) You may want to keep in mind, That as both an American Indian AND a Man, I am dealing with TWO types of discrimination. BOTH the types you don't hear about in the media.
So the anger biulds in me a bit more often.
If you have a problem with ME personaly, Fine, you are intitled to your oppinion. If you don't want to hear an angry Indian guy protesting injustice, in what ever calibur (And most people don't)Then simply don't read my posts.
I will continue to read yours though, because I do believe you are basicaly on the right side of the issues and have made many good points.
To be honest, If you want to see REAL "bitching" and "whineing" go to one of the MANY feminist websites.
Sorry Frank. You're a good guy, from what I've seen. But Honestly, I get tired of the fact that when MEN get angry and verbalise it, we are ALWAYS told things like; "be a Man", "Suck it up."
"Men can't complain" or "Oh stop bitching and whining."
If any one else feels this way, Just let me know.
I don't stay where I'm not welcome.
Thundercloud.
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TC, This IS directed at you. I'd send it directly but I don't have your email.
Sorry I touched a nerve, here. That wasn't my intent (though I guess it wasn't unexpected). Like everyone else here, I have my fill of things now and then, and I'd just had my fill when I encountered your post on this issue. For ME to tell YOU that you are unwelcome isn't something I think I have (or want) the power or authority to do.
I'd just rather read about things people are DOING about the problem, even when I'm not as able as I'd like to be myself.
Usually when I encounter a post that I think is going to be a little to longer on the whining than I'd like it to be, I choose not to read it. So, feel free to ignore me when you feel compelled to do so.
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by Anonymous User on Wednesday October 02, @12:22PM EST (#15)
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Frank.
No, I will never ignore what you have to say. Like I said, You bring alot to the table, as they say, And I'd be a fool to ignore that.
As for DOING things, I am in agreement with you.
However, some of us aren't in a position to do much more than we do.
I, personaly am a "disabled" person, So I do the best I can. (I'm not casting blame at you, You had no way of knowing this.) Some times I'm accused of being an "arm chair warrior". I'm actually a "wheel chair warrior". (though,I'm not CONFINED to a wheel chair.)
If I can make it to men's gatherings I do, but usually I can't. So instead, I use my computer to full advantage, in men's issues, as well as American Indian issues.
I'm sorry if my postings "bug" you, But I simply do the best I can with what I have.
I believe EVERY man MUST and SHOULD do his part in this "struggle", No matter how big or small his contribution.
Thundercloud.
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Hi all,
I've been reading the posts on this site for a while, and I wanted to comment on this thread. I agree that we should "do" something, and I've been trying to think of ways we could do that. BTW, I also agree that this is a great place for all of us to feel free to vent our frustrations, and I hope we all continue to feel free to do so.
One of the things I read on various other men's issues sites is that it would be good for folks to express their frustrations and their resistance through creative means, whether that means art, creating writing, whatever. I immediately though of making T-shirts, as that's a nice way to express ideas for people to see, and it was discussed earlier in reference to the Hot Topic shirts. I looked around on the web, and there aren't many out there for men's issues. So, I decided to make my own. Right now, I'm kicking around a few ideas, and what I plan to do is put the designs on a website for people to download, print onto iron-on paper (which you can get at your local office supply store) and iron on to a shirt. Does anyone have any good ideas for short phrases that could go on a shirt? Right now, I've been toying with "Men are not Disposable" and "Strong but not Silent", where the "o" is the symbol for masculinity.
Any other ideas?
Sean
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I have one question: How many here would buy a t-shirt that was pro-masculine, positive, and artfully done? How much would you pay for it? (a quality shirt, not one that's wash once and throw away)
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A while back, I was in charge of getting some screen printed shirts made for a group, and we ended up charging about $12-$16 for the shirts. I believe the XXL and up were in the higher range. I'd easily pay $20 - $25, myself, to get a good printing. We'd need to have a fair number of preorders, probably, and whoever was in charge would have to think about shipping costs.
Sean
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Sounds good to me
pro male $20 to $25 for a nice one
Is that in the ballpark?
Winters coming maybe a sweatshirt, more expensive of course.
A picture is worth a thousand words.
Peoples reactions to this project (both positive and negative) could be a whole topic of discussion here. We might learn something about where the public stands on what were saying, when we show that were not shy to tell it publically like it is. You won't have the protection of your computer screen to protect you from adverse reaction either so be prepared.
Ray
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Sean:
I went to my local photo copy store in L.A. tonight (Kinkos) and had a thousand copies made of this 8 1/2 X 11 tri-fold flyer that I designed for ncfmla. I put 350 of these on car windows on Sunday in a local park and really liked it. We have no voice inasmuch as we have no ear listening to us so I say keep trying to get our message into the court of public opinion in a way that lets people know, "hey, do something about the abuse and neglect of men's rights."
Anyway, while in the store waiting for the photocopies I checked out the place. If you can get your document burned onto a cd rom (in mirror reverse) they'll put it on a shirt for $15.00. I'm still working on it and I'll let you know, here or in a current posting, how it's going. They can also do posters, 18 X 24 for $29.00. I couldn't think of a place right now where I could use a poster, but it's good to keep in mind.
At another place, a site on the internet, I had 22 different styles of bumper stickers made. The prices vary with the quantity you get. Another one of our members has been doing a lot of work on the ncfmla web site (www.ncfmla.org).
I put 3 bumper stickers on my station wagon yesterday and drove 15 miles in stop and go traffic. Yes, having nothing else to do, while stuck in traffic, I saw people reading them.
Advertising and public relations are critical to the attracking of new members and the building of this movement. Let us not grow weary in doing some good. I get a lot of good ideas from people like you, and the ncfmla guys here local. I feel a lot better trying new ideas and failing then I do apathetically swimming in my depression and oversleeping, and overeating.
Some of these things are working and even the ones that don't give me ideas for more things to do. It's a real joy to have found such a great group of people who are participating in this effort. I don't want to get all sentimental, but I treasure each one of us, from the most gifted and active to the guys who only are able to write in and complain and are having trouble getting on track. I sometimes worry and know that there are guys out there who don't have internet access or the money to do anything about the horrible things that happen to them so when I'm out there walking and putting flyers on windshields I know that people are going to see us and maybe we can even help some of those guys are feeling hopeless. God willing I plan to buy another thousand in about two weeks, then another thousand two weeks after that, etc., etc.
As I said it feels really good and I feel very driven. How long will I be able to keep this up and will it make any difference. Stay tuned to this site and ncfmla for updates. I'll write out the bumper sticker sayings in my next post a few minutes from now.
Ray
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#1 Theres no excuse for false claims of abuse
#2 Men deserve equal justice
#3 Vigilant to be free
#4 Theres no excuse for false abuse
#5 False accusation of abuse is domestic violence
#6 Children need both parents
#7 Been told your not daddy?
#8 Domestic violnece LAWS are HATE CRIME
#9 You men deserve better
#10 Primary aggressor law=women assaulting men
#11 Primary aggressor law discriminates against males!
#12 Men's rights
#13 Fight for men's rights
#14 For battered men battering never ends
#15 Tired of male bashing? (kinda sounds familiar) Imitation is the sincerest form of flatery.
Most of them have www.ncfmla.org also written on them. Like I say, it's a begining.
Ray
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Thanks for the info!
I went and talked to a local screen printing shop about the idea of getting some good quality shirts made. Just to give an idea of what it would be:
A black shirt with two colors would be about 8 or 9 dollars, if there was a bulk order of 24. That's if the artwork was done by someone other than the people at the shop. If the shirts were white, that would be a bit less, and only one color would be less still. Just to give people an idea of what could be done with screen printing.
However, I like the idea of the copy store doing it, if they can, and the shirts are good quality. I'm planning to buy a couple of good shirts and use the iron-on transfer printer sheets for a couple of things, at least for now. I've used them before for other things, and they last pretty well, if you take good care of them.
I know at of at least 5 people over in my neck of the woods who would probably go in with me (my wife is one of them, she really wants a Men are not Disposable shirt). It's a start.
BTW, a couple of other thoughts for slogans from a couple of folks I know:
Testosterone is not a Dirty Word
Masculinity: It's not just for chauvinist pigs anymore
Sean
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BTW, I meant to say "Cool" about driving around with the bumper stickers. Right now, I've got one that says "Real Men wear Kilts" because this man does.
Sean
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by Anonymous User on Thursday October 03, @08:03AM EST (#20)
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Ray.
This is a wonderful idea, you have, putting out flyers or bumper-stickers.
I want to do it too.
I have a little trouble getting around, but THIS is something I could do with out too much trouble.
But I do have a couple of questions for you.
First, I'm not sure what the law is on this sort of thing. Could it be considered solicitation putting flyers on car wind-shields? I imagine the laws vary from state to state, But I'm just not sure.
And second, Would You mind if I or anyone else, for that matter, "borrowed" any of the 'sayings' you've suggested?
I don't have the resources, at this time, to BUY any stickers or profesionaly made flyers especialy in bulk, But I'm a bit of an artist and could make my own.
I'll bet alot of us could.
THANKS for the inspiration, Ray!!
Thundercloud.
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Thundercloud:
No problem, I'd be honored to have you use any of it. If you want to send a regular letter to ncfmla, Attn! Ray (the link through this site to ncfm has their snail mail address)they would get the letter to me and I could mail you a couple of bumper stickers. I'm presently the only Ray in the bunch. I have microsoft word running on a Sony. I could burn you a cd with alot of the visual stuff I've been working on, the flyer, etc. and you could just take it into Word and edit it to your taste. Any image I have, I was very very careful to make sure it was in public domain.
Before doing anything like I did below, definitely check the law in your area. I went to the Gov't center in my area this afternoon and put 100 ncfmla flyers on car windshields in the street between jury parking, the court building and the LAPD. One man stopped me and ask if he could have a flyer, one guy asked not to have one on his windshield, two guys with shaved heads each took one and one commented, "Lincoln." About 8 or 10 people who I saw, I asked, "Would you like a flyer?" All but one said yes. About a dozen cops saw me as I was making my run, and one cop car had to stop for me as I walked on the side walk and he was coming out of the p.d. driveway. As soon as I cleared I walked 5 feet to a car windshield and put one under the wiper. No problems at all, and maybe I even reached a guy or two who really needed that information. As I was driving away I saw a guy looking at one he'd taken off his windshield. He was right by a trash can, but in the time it takes to drive out of sight in a block and a half he appeared to still be looking at it. Do what you are comfortable with after you have made sure you are doing everything legal in your area.
Regards, Ray
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by Anonymous User on Friday October 04, @02:53AM EST (#24)
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Ray,
Thanks alot.
One problem though.
My email is down for a while.
I was getting spammed by some feminazi types, (I suspect) who probably got my old email address from MANN. so I had to drop my old address.
NOW I'm haveing trouble getting the new one up.
anyway I'll let you know when (if ever) the new address is up.
Mean time I'll see about local laws here in my state, then I'll get crackin'.
Thanks again, Ray.
Thundercloud.
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"Real Men VOTE!"
"Get out the male vote"
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Frank:
Absolutely Great Ones. A big reason we are in such dire straits as men is because politicians have no respect for us as a voting block, whereas they do for feminists.
ABSOLUTELY YES, to your comments. We should vote responsibly on all the issues and candidates, but on the close elections we should really try to make our strength felt, small that it is right now. If our combined votes, because of men's issues and men's votes causes an election to go a certain way, we could start seeing the begining of the end of the feminist's lock out of men rights. Vote Men's Rights!
Ray
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Here are some facts about the funding of Prostate Cancer. As I write this (10:56pm EST) it is still September which as we all should know is Prostate Cancer Awareness Month. Just doing the job that the media should have done over the past 30 days.
The following data is from the National Prostate Cancer Coalition website:
http://www.pcacoalition.org/Pca_community_resource s/Pca_community_resources_facts_/pca_community_res ources_facts_.html
"Facts About Prostate Cancer Research & Funding
Prostate cancer accounts for approximately 30% of all cancer cases in the United States and 11% of male cancer deaths. Yet, on average, only about 5% of federal cancer research dollars have been devoted to beat the disease.
AIDS research receives more than $2 billion in federal dollars. Breast cancer research will receive about $900 million next year. Compare that to $438 million for prostate cancer research.
The United States invests approximately $14,600 to find a cure for each life lost to prostate cancer; more than $22,500 for each life lost to breast cancer, and about $200,000 for each life lost to AIDS. It's not that research for other diseases receives too much funding. Prostate cancer receives too little(sic).
Overall, the total cost of treating prostate cancer in the U.S. amounts to several billion dollars per year. Since most men diagnosed with the disease are over 65 years of age, most of the cost is paid for through Medicare.
Since its inception in 1996, the National Prostate Cancer Coalition (NPCC) has, through its activist participation, infused nearly $1 billion in new federal dollars into prostate cancer research laboratories and clinics around the country.
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by Marc Angelucci on Monday September 30, @10:28PM EST (#3)
(User #61 Info)
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You can see the enormous disparity between spending on breast cancer and prostate cancer at http://www3.cancer.gov/public/factbk97/varican.htm
And they both kill about the same number every year.
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Have a look at the Yahoo homepage.
I program my home computer; beam myself into the future.
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by Anonymous User on Tuesday October 01, @09:41PM EST (#9)
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((("Have a look at the Yahoo homepage.")))
I did, AFG.
I'm mad but not the least SUPRISED.
This is EXACTLY the sort of thing I'm talking about.
There was NEVER anything there about prostate cancer, All through September.
But of course as soon as October hit...,
Thundercloud.
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My memory is foggy on this so correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Katie Couric's husband die a few years back of prostrate cancer. I seem to recall her being very active on this issue. I don't want to be insensitive, but perhaps her concern for this issue ended with the customery time for mourning of a loved one and she just wants to move on. Still it seems a little odd she's not mentioned it, considering her awareness, and the venue she has at her disposal to promote a positive message for such a worthy cause.
Ray
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by Anonymous User on Wednesday October 02, @12:51PM EST (#16)
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Ray,
Yes, her husband did die a few years ago.
I don't know if it was prostate cancer, but I think it might have been.
Either way, One must remember, that the media that Katie Couric works for is VERY anti-male. Even if Ms. Couric IS conserned about prostate cancer, Her"higher-ups" would never let her say anything about it.
Remember, Benard Goldberg tried to get Men's issues aired, and payed for it with his JOB.
I have always known Katie Couric to be pretty anti-man. She has made a good number anti-male comments, on the TODAY show. Remember sometime back in the late 90s when Couric was interviewing a "jilted bride"? Couric, in referance to the "groom", asked the bride; "have you considered CASTRATEING him?"
After the death of her husband, I watched to see if her attitude on men had changed. For about a year, it seemed it had, But eventually, Couric was back to her old Male-bashing self, and has been ever since.
Anyway wether Katie Couric cares about the issue of prostate cancer or not It would stand NO chance of makeing it on air.
As I said once before;
"It is not the PUPPETS that controll the puppet show, It's the PUPPETEERS."
Thundercloud.
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