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My opinion is that statistics will bore and turn prople off, even if they are startling, and disclose the truth instead of the feminist lies. I would try to challenge people to think with comments, reversals of situations and concepts, and definitely humor. You will have to acknowledge the fact that there are battered women and that they need help, because you don't want to alienate anyone. Boy, that sounds like a hard job to do. Good luck.
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The problem is its a battle of statistics. This councilor will be delivering all kinds of one sided arguements on the issue. And expecting people to eat this shit up with a spoon. Yuk!!!!
Unfortunately I do not have a job where I fear being fired so my advice maybe unwise. But personally I would bring in all your materials and present them. I assume as with most of these types they try to distract or they get emotional or whatever to hush your voice.
If I were you I would start showing friends at work your materail today!!!! That way you will have a head start on her.
You will need courage and confidence, believe me I wish I was in your place as I love this type of stuff.
If however you feel its not worth risking your job perhaps it is not. Legally if she asks questions in a "question period" you should be able to challenge her. And don't let her get away with the "well they only do it in self defence" etc....
Oh well.
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Dan Lynch
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Another important thing, in my opinion, is to remain focused on what the masculist take on this subject needs to be. The masculist objection is not to the discussion of the fact that there are lots of battered women, and not to the fact that there are a lot of programs to help them. Our objection is to the fact that there are virtually no programs to help battered men and, on a deeper level, that the violence of some men is used as a device to demonise all men. Domestic violence is a horrendous problem in our society, but it appears that it has been hijacked and put to use in the service of a political/social agenda, that of spreading hatred and distrust of men. As long as society persists in holding on to a false image of domestic violence - that it is strictly a problem of evil men beating up helpless women - we will never be able to come to a correct conclusion as to how to put an end to it.
To boil this down into a more succinct piece of advice: if you do get into a confrontation with this presenter, emphasize that you don't want to minimize the problem, you want to form a picture of it that is more in harmony with the available evidence.
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Domestic violence is a horrendous problem in our society, but it appears that it has been hijacked and put to use in the service of a political/social agenda, that of spreading hatred and distrust of men.
Actually I strongly disagree with this characterization of our culture. DV is not anywhere near the problem that the media and radical feminist have made it out to be.
At one time the problem was women that were beaten. Then it was women that were hit. Next it became women that are slapped. This digressed to become women that are pushed. Then DV became all women victims that are verbally abused. Now DV is anything that a woman fabricates as a claim of DV. It is this dangerous slippery slope that has made DV appear much worse than reality.
For example, if a man raises his voice in a dispute or disagreement, many gender feminists define this to be a sound basis for a restraining order. They are even trying to enact laws that will cause a man to loose his home if he shouts at his spouse. That is absurd but it is reality.
Therefore, the problem is that the term DV has lost all rational meaning. Nobody has any idea what actually constitutes DV. It is little more than a random event where a woman makes an accusation. The actual percentage of women and men that suffer literal battering is extremely small. It is minimal. It is the anti-male hate laws and the gender feminists propaganda that makes it seem to be a severe problem.
Warble
Disclaimer: My statements are intended to be personal opinion, belief, sarcasm, or allegation.
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I would ask, politely, if I could be allowed a few minutes just before the conclusion of the program to rebut. During my rebuttal, I would include some advice to men who find themselves to be so victimized along the lines of what we've discussed here, to minimize the risk of they're being arrested instead of the real perpetrator. Whether or not I was accommodated, I would prepare a written brief demonstrating the alternative viewpoint (assuming the presented one was objectionable), and I would quietly distribute it among my colleagues. Finally, I would point out at the appropriate point during the discussion that the number of men's shelter's is totally inadequate even in the face of the most conservative feminist estimates of female-on-male DV.
I'm sure that this would get me in some hot water, but I can think of many other approaches that would get me FIRED, while I think this approach might only result in a rebuke. Should this happen, I think I would consider consulting with an attorney. To be fired for such an action, assuming that the dismissal is traceable to that event, would be discriminatory. Note that you should be presenting your position as a matter of FACT, not opinion, and if your statistics differ from those presented, you should be speaking on FACTS and not opinions or suppositions.
I once sat through sexual harassment awareness training at a startup given by a man who is a bit of a masculist himself. In New Jersey, though, the training is required and it's content is controlled by statute. I did take the time to make my points there, as the class was given in a format that allowed discussion. There were women in the class who heard me say loud and clear that unreasonably provocative dress or behavior was regarded as sexual harassment by many men. And during the time I was there, there were no challenges to that concept by the women. Small company, though, so it might not have happened anyway. I note that I was surprised that most of the women agreed with me, but then most of them were engineering types of one sort or another.
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United Way agencies and many of their funded orgs are independent in a lot of ways.
Make sure that you are 100% informed on your local services. You cannot presume right now that the norm will apply in your local area. Things are changing and you may be in one of those lucky places. (In which case, you'd do well to applaud and encourage the changes.)
But really, IMHO a public confontation in this case, in this venue may do more harm than good. I've worked for United Way during campaign time, and they send out their most skilled speakers just in case of any confrontation. The speaker may have anticipated any challenge and be prepared to wipe up the floor with anybody who disagrees.
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After being falsely arressted for d.v. a few years ago our company had a LAPD instructor from their academy giving instructions on profiling people. In front of hundreds of people I told him that he was taking these good people down a dangerous path and that profiling was a prejudice practiced by law enforcement against people of color and men.
I was approached afterwards by the media, but declined comment, told them I was in management and that I had made my point.
Companies have ways of getting back at employees, so it doesn't look like it's tied to an event, and mine did, but I still work there, and in management.
It was unexpected and surprising how many friends I made that day that were just faces to me before, mostly guys. For months they would just come up to me and start talking and telling me personal stuff.
Why did I do it? Because it was the right and just thing to do. Give me liberty, because the cost to live without it is not worth paying. I might have a change of heart if I were livng out of a garbage can and sleeping in cardboard boxes, but it wouldn't last. Give me liberty.
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I don't know what state you live in. In one of the most recent reports available from the California Attorney General's Office, in the 10 year period from 1988 to 1998 there was a 392% increase in the number of women arrested for domestic violence (somewhere around 50% approx. for men). Where are the shelter's for men. We keep pumping more money into women's shelters, but the numbers indicate that at least 20% of all battered shelters moneies should be going strictly to men's shelters. Ask this expert how much money United Way (who I wouldn't give a penny to) dedicates to male victims of domestic violence. You'll probably get a song and dance answer. Once they get the money they spend it like they always have.
Ray
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I too have had similar experiences with these types of speakers. They generally are very prepared with material information (although very one sided). I would avoid confronting them directly or getting into a battle of statistics since it will, more than likely, end up making you look bad and appear to be misogynistic.
What I have found does work is asking very direct questions and putting the onus on the speaker to explain a situation. I would also use conservative studies and estimates just to avoid having the converstation turn into a battle of whose right.
An example would be to ask:(I would wait to propose this question until after they mention that DV is about power.) that if DV is about control and not just physical abuse and if accourding to recent research done by the CDC and funded by the VAWA has shown that 835,000 men are abused (mention the female stat as well 1.2 million to show you are knowledgeable about the research) where are these men supposed to go. [ they generally try to say that men have more resources so there is less of a need for them to have shelters. be prepared]
Again the best method for this type of forum, since the lecturer will be controlling the conversation is to ask VERY direct questions. Do not allow questions that can easily be dismissed with a yes or no answer. Avoid questions that seem to challenge the female aspect of the topic. There is a time and place for those type of debates but I have found that using the time to open the eyes of the people is more beneficial.
Tony
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There is only one or two direct questions that I would ask:
1) If the 95/5 stat comes up I'd directly ask why they are using archival data instead of a valid scientific study to support their argument. Then I'd remain silent and not respond to any answer other than to say "I see."
2) I'd quote the VAWA study on female gender violence and ask the speaker(s) how they would recommend that the male should respond when under an attack from a female and what they think should be done about the absence of any DV shelters for men who are victims of DV.
Warble
Disclaimer: My statements are intended to be personal opinion, belief, sarcasm, or allegation.
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I agree with Tony that direct questions are your best route. I might even write down two or three questions beforehand and word them just like I wanted. Remember, you will be successful if you can just put questions into the minds of the participants. You don't need to win a debate, just get people thinking.
My first question might go something like this:
"DV is such a terrible problem and the suffering is staggering when you think about it. I read the other day in a psychologcial journal that women are injured 62% of the time from DV and men 38%. What are we doing to help these male victims?"
She will then minimize your 38% total and say it is only 5% or so. At that point I think I would ask if there are shelters for even those 5% and what services are available for the 5%? Try to avoid an argument over these percentages, it is a distraction. Focus on whatever percent she says are males and what is being done for them. The truth here is that since men don't have shelters available they are put into motels! I am not making this up.
I would avoid all power struggles. They will be trying to get you into one. Use caution, tact, and lots of patience. The moment you get in a power struggle with them YOU will become the perp! Careful!
The important thing to keep in mind is that "DV is not a gender problem it is a human problem." I might say that more than once when I could slip it in. This statement honors both men and women and keeps you from looking like someone who doesn't care about the women victims. It also cuts against the grain of their model which sees DV as a man's doing.
I wish I could be there with you. Good luck.
Stand Your Ground Forum
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Scott posted my question as from an anonymous user, but I don't mind everyone know who it was from. (BTW, the United Way fundraising program will be this coming Monday, Sept. 23.)
I live in upstate South Carolina. I probably shouldn't name the company I work for. :o)
I suspect that the "the FBI says that a woman is battered every 15 seconds" statistic will be brought up. I was thinking of pointing out to the speaker that the FBI doesn't actually track domestic violence numbers, and that it relies on data from the Family Research Laboratory, which incidentally also found that a man is battered every 15 seconds.
http://www.responsibleopposing.com/facts/15sec.htm l
Then I'd wait to see/hear what her reaction is. Would this be a good approach? Or do you think I should take another approach? I was also thinking of asking her if her shelter offers equal services to men since it receives taxpayer funding.
"Force and mind are opposites; morality ends where a gun begins." -John Galt
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I wouldn't try to match their statistics that way. For most people in the room, the numbers on male victims will seem ridiculous and extreme.
I would simply state that I read recently that some proportion of DV victims are male and that it's not a negligable number. If pressed I would make up some statistic like 20% to make it sound believable. Ask what they're doing for that 20%. She'll probably try to water it down to 5% or something, but I would ask again, "So what are you doing for that 5%?"
At this stage, I would be trying to get people thinking that there even ARE male DV victims and that those victims deserve the same consideration as the female DV victims.
If she were to say that there are so few male DV victims that it's not worth setting up services for them, I would say something like, "Well, there's a monument in Washington to the women who served in Vietnam. If a relatively small number of women deserve their own monument, why don't a relatively small number of male DV victims deserve services and help just like women?" Maybe the Vietnam memorial is a lame example; you can come up with your own. The point is, society regularly puts together services, memorials, and funds for small groups of women with problems. Why are men excluded from this? Because they're men?
I would avoid arguing about statistics and frequencies. Nobody else in the room will believe you if you say that men are battered as often as are women. If she wants to put the number of men at 5% or even 2% then let her. However, write down the number of women she says are battered and then do the math! This is powerful! If she says, "In this state, 20% (or 1 in 5, or whatever) of women are battered," then figure out how many women that is (let's say it's 400,000). Obviously she's lying, but the more inflated the number, the better for you. Then, if she says, "Oh, battered men make up only 5% of all cases," you can say, "Well, that's 20,000 men in this state alone. What are you doing for them?" Of course she'll ask you where you got that number, and be shocked to discover that you got it from her own inflated estimates of female DV victims from the beginning of the lecture. You can even do the math out loud so everyone knows you're not BS-ing them.
The whole DV industry is founded on the premise that only women are victims and only men are violent. I would work at breaking through that misconception before trying to claim a 50/50 split in DV rates. Nobody is going to buy the magnitude of the problem if they think that there isn't any problem to start with. First things first.
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I'd tell them that Im insulted that an entire birth group are being left out and that they don't have a god dam right to come to my work and try to fill up my head with out dated beligerant propaganda. That they should stick it right up their fucking ass and start doing the right thing.
I highly suggest you read up on Erin Pizzey's work. I can't believe we have to tippy toe around these sorts for rights that are supposed to be ours right from the fucking get.
Why don't you tell those fucking whorse about how the fembots "highjacked" the dv industry so they could perpetuate their propaganda and hate agenda. Better yet, give them my number I will sort it out. 1 519 757 0907.
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Dan Lynch
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Dan:
Good point. I've been trying to hold back very hard on saying that, but you know what they say is true. If one person writes it at least 7 other people are thinking it. Maybe, more like 7,000,000 other men in this case.
I guess my more discrete question to the battered women's shelter speaker would be slipping her an anonymous note with this on it, "Is it true that all the toilet paper in the battered women's shelters come with a complimentary printing of the 14th ammendment to the U.S. Constitution (equal justice for all) written on it, or is it just the part about all people are created equal...?"
Ray
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" "Is it true that all the toilet paper in the battered women's shelters come with a complimentary printing of the 14th ammendment to the U.S. Constitution (equal justice for all) written on it, or is it just the part about all people are created equal...?" "
Well Ray, I live in Canada and I think that the human bill of rights is nothing more than a rag best used for wiping my ass with.
I have read it and it is literally a form to discriminate against whomever they want. This 14th ammendement you have should be fought for diligently. They can go on about the 19th ammendement until tongues fall off but none of it adds up.
Its funny how they mockingly speak of when women gained the vote that divorce would skyrocket among other family tradition breakups. This is exactly what has happened.
I kind of liked Abbot's veiw on it being a "wife swapping" affair.
Anyways Im not that conservative I just want my "equal protection rights". This constant male bashing in society whole really has to go.
I finally have a car and I have my sticker on it from men's activism, people like it, people understand it.
This woman that is going to show up and talk about DV I expect to tell the groups that men are evil bastards who beat their wives and that women just take it. She will deferr and say women don't do such things. Geeezzzz. I would give her the benifit of the doubt until she opens her mouth and starts to blah blah the propaganda.
I stood up my profs I'll stand up someone from the united way. If they fire me for questioning the norm I will sue their guts out, I can not imagine I would lose. But then again.
I would be polite but firm. In a situation like that I expect that 90% will go with the norm the other 10% will begin to consider the proposition.
Secondly if what Im saying is the truth well those victims in the room with me, will talk about themselves or their brothers or fathers uncles etc,..... And when they start bringing up women again remind them you are not here to deny them but merely to point out there are far more victims of dv that have not been mentioned and they are men.
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Dan Lynch
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If the local women-only domestic violence service provider in my area gave such a presentation, I might ask something like this:
"There was an excellent article in the San Francisco Chronicle about individuals and groups that practice homophobia by ignoring the many gay and lesbian victims of domestic violence. Does your shelter provide equivalent services for gay men (and lesbian women) or does it exclusively serve heterosexual women? I'm asking because the Boy Scouts receive a lot of criticism (and funding cuts from the United Way) due to their policy on homosexuals. I'm curious if your shelter has a similar policy."
The point here is to illustrate how radical domestic violence ideology is harmful to everyone, including "politically correct" groups. While domestic violence advocates won't hesitate to defend their policy of ignoring and bashing men, they dare not do the same with gay men and lesbian women else they appear homophobic. This is a way to put them on the defensive.
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by mbr
(spamproofed address: mbr at arlsoft dot com)
on Friday September 20, @06:42PM EST (#16)
(User #821 Info)
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During the presentation, keep in mind that convincing the speaker
is not your goal. Convincing the audience is. Don't get angry.
Just be as reasonable as possible. If you personally know any
male who's needed help and been unable to find any, that will add
to your credibility. You might simply let the audience know that
anyone who's interested in more information can see you at the
end of the presentation. You might also want to make up a
package to distribute to anyone who approaches you afterwards.
I'd suggest including:
- a copy of "The Hidden Side of Domestic Violence: Male Victims"
(reprinted at
http://www.ncfmla.org/resources/gelles/RichardGell esArticle.htm)
- a printout of the Battered Men's Helpline web-page (which you can
find at http://www.batteredmenshelpline.org/index1.html). Mention
that BMH is a 501c3 (i.e. tax-deductible) charity. Donations can
be made to Battered Men's Helpline, P.O. Box 252, Harmony, Maine
04942. When I've been approached by the United Way at work,
they've also had an arrangement where you can donate to the United
Way and designate it to be given to any 501c3 organization you
choose. The downside is that United Way takes a cut off the top.
The only upside is if your company is pressuring you to donate to
United Way, and you want some control over your choices. The
United Way may work differently in your state.
In addition to whatever you've already printed out, I'd bring a
copy of Richard Gelles' paper "Domestic Violence Factoids" for
arguments refuting the most common falsehoods. This can be found
at http://www.mincava.umn.edu/papers/factoid.htm.
If there's any question as to Gelles' credentials, point out that
he's been studying family violence since the early 1970s. He's
the Dean of the School of Social Work at the University of
Pennsylvania School of Social Work, an ivy league university, and
holds the only endowed chair in the School of Social Work. His
C.V. (which is 22 pages) is at
http://www.ssw.upenn.edu/faculty/gelles/gelles.pdf .
Mark Rosenthal (mbr@arlsoft.com)
Mark Rosenthal
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Here's one I'd love to present to your battered woman's shelter program speaker, but hey, this is just me.
I just watched the video tape on tonights news (Indiana I think) of this little girl getting her head shaken by her pony tail and her lights punched out by her mothers fists. 55% of child abuse is committed by mothers, probably more, they just can't hide it any better than that.
Are you gonna tell me that these women who treat these little ones, the very flesh of their flesh thusly, are going to treat their husbands any differently, any better? If so, I got a bridge I'll sell you real cheap.
Her attorney was already rationalizing "the poor woman's" behavior (sympathy for the devil).
Domestic Violence law is the biggest scam, the biggest con job, ever to be pulled on a group of suckers in the history of America.
Ray
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I am trying to form a questionare of sorts to help people become more aware of men's issues. Let me know If you have any ideas for further questions (and where to find supporting research)
to TonyHann@attbi.com
MEN’S ISSUES QUIZ
The format of this test will be true and false. Please try and see if you can answer all the questions before looking at the answers. I tried to use conservative estimates and peer reviewed current research in formation of the questions.
1. More women than men were physically assaulted as children by a caretaker or as adults.
False: According to US dept of justice 51.9 women and 66.4 men were physically assaulted as children by a caretaker and/or as adults. An estimated 1.9 million women and 3.2 million men are physically assaulted annually.
2. Only 5% of the approximately 2,135,000 individuals physical assaulted each year by an intimate partner are male.
False: CDC July 2000 report on Violence against women reported that ~835,000 men were physically assaulted by an intimate partner a year. This constitutes ~39% of the total.
3. The percentage of women under the authority of state or federal prison authorities is increasing. False: BJS reported that from Dec. 2000 -2001 the number of women decreased 0.2%, the number of males increased 2.1% during the same time period.
4. Men are more likely to abuse or neglect a child than women. False: US Dept. of Health and family services reports show that women constitute 62.3% of child abuse and neglect perpetrators, 37.7% are male. Women are responsible for 62.8% of child fatalities, men for 37.2%.
5. Women are less likely to have access to health care than men. False: CDC statistics show that men are slightly less likely to have health insurance coverage than women at all ages. Males 24-44 years of age reported having no usual source of care 24% to 13.5% for women. For ages 45-64 13.8% men and 10% women reported not having access to healthcare.
6. National Institute of Health funds more male specific health research than female. False: Female specific health research is funded 2:1 more than male specific health research.
7. More women die from breast cancer a year than men who die from prostate cancer. False: This is a trick question of sorts. While a greater NUMBER of women die from breast cancer than men who die from prostate cancer the PERCENTAGE of men who die from prostate cancer is actually slightly higher (see SEER.cancer.gov statistics). 3.13% lifetime risk for men from PC compared to 3.12% lifetime risk for women from BC.
8. More males take college entrance exams such as the ACT than females. False: Slightly more women over all take the ACT than males (1-3%)
9. More males take AP classes than women. False: more males than females take AP classes for college credit than men and the percentage of females taking AP classes and the gap is increasing.
10. Women are less likely to graduate with an AA degree than men. False: for 1999-2000, 60% of those receiving an AA degree were women. NCES.ed.gov
11. Men are more likely to graduate with a bachelor’s degree than women. False: 1999-2000, women received 57.2% of the bachelor’s degrees. NCES.ed.gov
12. Men are more likely to graduate with a master’s degree than women. False: women received 58% of master’s degrees 1999-2000. NCES.ed.gov
13. Women are less likely to receive a doctorate degree than men. True: Women received 44.2% of the doctorate degrees in 1999-2000. NCES.ed.gov. [note that this is still lower than any other “gender gap” that exists for men in education.]
Tony
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I here again and again that men have more than enough resources so as to exclude them from D.V. services. If this is told to you I would ask her a question something like this; "So if a woman has worked very hard in her life to become well educated, financially secure-where she makes more than her spouse, and well known and active in her community; if she is abused by her spouse and turns to you, she and other woman like her are denied your services because of their success?"
Let her wiggle her way out of that one. And if she does, sit back, admire, and take notes. These are well trained speakers, so start learning from some of the best. After all, activism is politics, and there is nothing better than beating your opponent with their own tactics.
I would also like to say I really admired all of the information and stategies expressed in this discussion form all the men who wrote. If we could some how coordinate all of these arguments and facts, we can become a very powerful force.
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Please excuse my typo's. I'm a lousy proof-reader.
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Let's not mince words. There are discrepancies between the hard statistics that are: #1 reported by police departments, #2 estimates reported in a survey, and #3 politically correct numbers that corrupt organizations like the LAPD and the United Way use to drum up public support to get more statistics, to arrest more men, to get more statistics to get more money, to arrest more men, ad infinitum, ad naseum.
Locally it all fits in very nicely with the politically correct, feminist controlled politicians who run Los Angeles. Nationally, and indeed in the Western world, it seems to be the same. I'll be nice and not mention the party, overwhelmingly in power in Los Angeles, who so willingly cozies up to this agenda.
To support the aforementioned:
#1 the most current statistics available from U.S. Dept. of Justice and the California Attorney General show the arrest rate for domestic violence to be 85% for women and 15% for women. Based on a ten year trend, documented in the CA Attorney General report, today’s actual numbers may well be 80% women and 20% men.
#2 The DOJ crime victimization survey, the key word here is survey, reports that 36%, of the victims of domestic violence are men (numbers change & depending on who's doing the math). Deductively then 64% of victims of d.v. are female.
#3 The LAPD to this day actively spreads the lie that 95% of domestic violence arrests are of men. LAPD has been actively spreading this statistic for many many years.
http://www.dvmen.org/dv-87.htm#pgfId-1378736
On this web site in Table 33 Dr. Charles Corry lists the actual LAPD arrest statistics for 1995. 85% men and 15% women.
Clearly the LAPD prejudicially does not enforce the law, and is no better than common street thugs or terrorists as they administer their reign of terror on the innocent men of Los Angeles. Of that group (male citizens of L.A.) 35% of those arrested for domestic violence are arguable innocent victims of the LAPD’s hatred for truth, law and justice in the area of domestic violence.
Any American man who would ever give one penny to United Way is either ignorant or a fool.
Ray
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I am not sure what survey you are referring to here. the one done in July 2000 by the dept. of justice and CDC for the VAWA had a ratio of 40/60 male to female.
Second, I am also unclear what your point is about research using a survey as means to determine information. Research done using a the survey method can be very useful for determining facts. There are limitations to this type of research but that does not mean one can dismiss the data out of hand simply because it is a survey. The biggest problem I see with most DV surveys is that they fail to deal with the fact that men will often dismiss violence against them by their spouse as acceptable. I also am offended by the fact they rarely if ever ask men follow up questions about rape. [ex. in the forementioned study rape questions were ONLY asked if the person was female.]
As to the rest of the 95/5 DV issue we all are aware that these numbers are wrong but there is a time and place to challenge them. People will instantly stop listening it seems that someone is being antagonistic or combative when it comes to an issue.
I have found that the best method is to use a questioning technique. As someone if they are aware that data provided by the CDC shows that 40% of the DV victims a year are male. Ask them what services they know about for men?
Don't provide answers! Make them think! Plant a bug that will make them itch to find out more.
Tony
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Yes, and the point of using a survey instead of the arrest records is that the survey is FAR more likely to uncover crimes that are unreported. That's a SERIOUS difficulty with using crime statistics no matter how much you trust the enforcement agency that's compiling them: they only cover REPORTED crime. Further, conviction rates make the problem even worse, and I suspect that the LAPD might well be able to justify their numbers with conviction rates. But here again, the incidence of conviction is a subset of the incidents reported, and the incidents reported are a subset of the incidents that actually occur, and the incidents that occur are a subset of the incidents that are threatened. This does not consider false accusations, which are another problem altogether!
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-- man, if I couldn't trust my coworkers and employer to back me up -- to be loyal to me first and some mendicant outsider second, if that. . .
. . .then I'd find a better job.
Ack!
Non Illegitimi Carborundum, and KOT!
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Can someone please tell me where to find the statistics that show women commit more DV than men? I am working on putting together some flyers for my campus, and I would like to quote them...
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