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Almost in every case with feminists, they are always diverting the arguement towards some other country for their 'pity parties'.
I love exposing the myths, and those feminists don't know whats going on in this country why should they what's going on in that country(which ever one they bring op).
I was wondering about Japan. Its kind of funny because they sound a lot like the Jewish American Princess.
Oh the irony.
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Dan Lynch
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Thing about Japan. When their constitution was re-written as part of the American Occupation in 1945, on the short list of 'necessaries' was rights for women.
Terrible patriarchy we have, that wants to look out for the ladies, say what? Gosh, how dare they!
;>)
T____
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Trudy,
It's good to see you're still around. Please don't leave us.
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by Anonymous User on Saturday August 24, @12:01AM EST (#4)
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I wrote a post on a seperate thread about Japanese women, less than a week ago, I think.
I believe it was intitled "Japan is nice this time of year. (I Think)"
Any way, The Fembots have a real problem with Japanese women because they are brought up (culturaly) to be polite and considerate toward others. Men, in Japan are taught the same. While I have never been to Japan, ANYONE that I have met from there is just as nice and polite as can be. A real pleasure to be around.
The Fembots think that ANY group of women who ENJOY being feminine and don't hate men MUST be oppressed.
When I used to date, (Sometime during the Ice age) I dated several women from Japan. I was told by "American" women I just wanted a "Submissive" woman. (You know, in the same way alot of American women want submissive MEN...) Any way I told those women that they were not only misandrists but racists as well, for perprtuating such an ethnic stereotype . I don't know even ONE Asian woman that does NOT resent the "Submissive asian girl" stereotype.
But believe this stereotype, MOST Pheminists do!
Which as I told those women in My "Dateing years", Makes these Pheminists just as racist as it does Misandrist.
This post is dedicated to;
Kumi Wakasaki.
Thundercloud.
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"Makes these Pheminists just as racist as it does Misandrist."
It's all intertwined. Even in the beginning they were racist. And even now if they weren't racist they are so blind to their ends that they have become as such. They are creating the new culture,one of hatred , misunderstanding and deciet. Should they really be shocked that theres a building backlash?
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Dan Lynch
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by Anonymous User on Sunday August 25, @01:32AM EST (#7)
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It's a little known fact that the MAJORITY of groups like the N.O.W. are white women.
There is also a feminist group comprised, nearly if not intirely, of Black women.
Conversely, at MOST men's gatherings one will see, Not just WHITE or BLACK men but MANY different races and ethnicities.
Ain't it interestin' how we ONLY hear about MEN as sexist or racist?
Thundercloud.
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"Ain't it interestin' how we ONLY hear about MEN as sexist or racist? "
It's all a part of the blanket demonization process. They saddle their projects with every little poor bunny they can think of and then say stuff like "see men just don't care, they don't do anything about it like women do". Meanwhile thats a complete utter lie or its just selective memory your choice.
Women and minorities, women and children, women and the poor, women and the environment, women and ....
Are we beginning to see a common theme yet? No matter what they really take that 'women first thing' quite seriously. Talk about selfishness at its finest hour.
This may sound strange but hey Im kind of strange so bare with me. I think that all this gender war stuff is the best thing to happen to racial conflicts ever. In the interdynamic processes of conflict in motion it forces us to work together with groups to achieve our necessary goals.
The feminists have choosen to seek alies in other groups such as asian women, pakastani women, the list goes on. They have actually had difficulties with black women but that may be changing a great deal more. This ursurping play on races will force the opposing sex to do the same, as in work together to seek a solution with the help of allies.
The feminists will use racial hostility as long as they can to keep us divided as a voice and as a group. They will divide our cause at every turn over every little thing they can get their hands on. We should not be bothered by the little things and we should be looking at 'hate crimes' with skeptisism. All crimes of violence are hate crimes but by compounding that image and that soundbite over and over again just makes it worse, it perpetuates it extends the nogociation process into oblivian. It creates the very prejuduce that they claimed to try and destroy. It doesnt work.
Nobody owns this planet. All this stuff was here when we came into this world and it will all be here when we leave it.
Go out of your way to say 'hi' to someone today. Regardless of where or what or who. I think this board should be promoting racial relations among men as part of its activism, and yes emanslave that includes you. :-)
Native, Black, White, Asian, Hebrew whatever if I missed any Im sorry. We need to start getting the stories from the horses mouths. I want to know whats going on everywhere in the world. We should be networking independantly as much as we can. I have a great deal more to say on this.
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Dan Lynch
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Dan:
You wrote,
"We should not be bothered by the little things and we should be looking at 'hate crimes' with skeptisism. All crimes of violence are hate crimes but by compounding that image and that soundbite over and over again just makes it worse, it perpetuates it extends the nogociation process into oblivian. It creates the very prejuduce that they claimed to try and destroy. It doesnt work."
My reply,
You are right, the self fulfilling prophecy is one of the big tools in their tool chest, and they love to use it. They are not the least bit interested in solving the problems of men, to wit: "CRIMES ARE BY MEN." They want to create a consciousness in men that we are irreparably the demons, perverts, etc. that they paint us to be. By the power of suggestion, bad law, the spreading of this kind of hate some men have unwittingly fulfilled their prejudiced prophecies. They believed their conditioning and provided the response they sought.
I always say when I hear their prejudiced, statistically skewed crap, "YOU DON'T MIND IF I DON'T LIVE DOWN TO YOUR NEGATIVE EXPECTATIONS OF ME, DO YOU?
Describing radical feminists as insidiously evil, morally bankrupt, hate monger bigots is no self fulfilling prophecy by the men's movement. It's just an accurate depiction, because they were fully that before the men's movement ever came along. Just my opinion.
Ray
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"I always say when I hear their prejudiced, statistically skewed crap, "YOU DON'T MIND IF I DON'T LIVE DOWN TO YOUR NEGATIVE EXPECTATIONS OF ME, DO YOU?"
Hey , I like that.
And you are very right. They are creating the stats to actually becoming true. They do this by a couple of ways. 1. is to broaden the definitions until they are everything and anything. Sex I think is their biggest gamebit. Such as sexual harrassment etc.. IN fact I have a guy accused of "Sexualization" that some nice dr. is using against him in a custody dispute with the children's aid society and a guy named John. Now this stems from a witnessed acount. The social workers witnessed this guy *hug* his children who he hadn't seen in about 2 months. The CAS has accused him of everything under the sun which he beat everytime. This Dr. Benoit (not sure of her name) is using him as a test case and is testifying against him.
Now remember there are cameras etc on these monitored visists. What a bunch of fucking shit. But I want to warn the Americans and anyone as much as I can that this testimoney has to be nipped in the bud of its evolution. Most guys that are burned by this is guys who can't afford to fight the system.
Its clear that the Judge in this case knows this is crap, but his hands are tied, simply because this guy can't afford the testimony to defeat this Dr. The guys attorny is a chump because I myself would have ripped that Dr to shreds based on her biased perceptions, because she is no doubt a woman's studies grad.
Most people don't really know whats going on in this country what makes them think they know whats going on in Japan or China or anywhere else for that matter. Because when they talk about it its always Men bad Women oppressed ruined blah blah blah.
I like when they talk about burqas. I say "well whatever they were doing to the women, the men had it 10Xs worse." Usual response. "What are you talking about? It was the men who were doing it?" I respond. "You mean the small fraction of the population who had such powers. As for the rest of the men, well , slave wages, constant abuse, murders, difigurements. I guess Oprah left that part out."
Another thing Oprah left out is that where those countries women are being stoned to death for infidelities, it is actually most women who are making the accusations to have these women stoned. According to the research in Pearson's book 'When She Was Bad'. It doesn't make it any better but in order to solve the problem and stop the blanket demonization of men we should continue to point these things out.
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Dan Lynch
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I really don't know what to make of it, but
it's relevant so I thought I'd post it:
H-NET BOOK REVIEW
Published by H-Women@h-net.msu.edu (August 2002)
Karen Kelsky. _Women on the Verge: Japanese Women, Western Dreams_. Durham
and London: Duke University Press, 2001. 294 pp. Illustrations, notes,
bibliography, and index. $54.95 (cloth), ISBN 0-8223-2816-x; 18.95 (paper),
ISBN 0-8223-2805-4.
Reviewed for H-Japan by Seija Jalagin (seija.jalagin@oulu.fi), Department of
History, University of Oulu, Finland.
"Any Country That Has to Export Women's Frustrations is Just Not Right":
Japanese Women's Turn to the West
After dozens of books about representations of Japan by the West _Women on
the Verge_ presents Japanese imagery of the West, and it does this by
focusing on one of the most central topics: the West as the target of
Japanese women's dreams and aspirations for something they do not seem to
find in their own country. Karen Kelsky, Assistant Professor of
Anthropology at the University of Oregon, dives into the world of Japanese
women's narratives of internationalism both in the past and in the present.
Women's internationalist narratives center around Western _akogare_,
translated as "longing, desire, or idealization" of the West. Kelsky's
central argument is that this "turn to the foreign has become perhaps the
most important means currently at women's disposal to resist gendered
expectations of the female life course in Japan" (p. 2). In _Women on the
Verge_ Kelsky attests this with a thorough analysis on contemporary Japanese
women's use of the West as a mirror image of the critique against their own
society.
As the starting point Kelsky takes some central indications of a profound
change in Japan's social relations during the past two decades. The 1.57
shock (declining birthrate), defeminization of the countryside, Equal
Employment Opportunity Law (1987) and the rising marrying age bound together
with the internationalist narratives of Japanese women Kelsky sees as the
strategies to flee the conventional roles offered to women. As ways in which
Japanese women transform their _akogare_ for the West into action Kelsky
presents foreign language study, study abroad (_ryugaku_), work abroad and
work in foreign-affiliated companies in Japan, short-term visits to Western
countries(increasing overseas tourism by young Japanese women), and romantic
and/or sexual relations with foreign men.
With statistical facts the author demonstrates how women monopolize the
international niche and goes on to argue that this still does not mean that
they could effectively use their transnational abilities and experience to
alter the Japanese gender reality, or to get satisfying results on personal
level. The "internationalist Japanese women," as Kelsky calls them, have,
however, built up a "new self" (_atarashii jibun_). _Women on the Verge_
presents us with different ways how this altered identity enables women to
continue their existence somewhere between Japan and the West. Some try to
settle in Europe or North America permanently, and the ones who fail to do
this travel to Western countries whenever possible; whereas others later
regard their Western _akogare_ as "symptom of immaturity onto the prior
self" (p. 214) eventually preferring Japan to the West. As Kelsky
articulates, the West is not defined on a map, but consists of European and
North American countries as well as Hong Kong and Singapore--all of which
Japanese women regard as merit-based societies. Traditionally it is the
United States that has been the closest of the (mental) West and is the
usual target of internationalist Japanese women.
The first chapter traces the roots of female internationalism in Japan by
focusing on selected phenomena and characters from Meiji era (1868-1912) to
the Occupation period (1945-1952). Kelsky briefly mentions the sexual nature
of early contacts between Japan and the West in the form of arranged wives
and prostitutes for foreign men who stayed in Japan for longer periods in
the era of isolation (prior to 1859). She would have done well to look more
deeply into this since the most persistent element in the imagery of Japan
in the West has been, and may still be (as this book also indicates), the
lure of the Japanese women as sexually liberal and doll-like at the same
time. This image is male-dominated, no doubt, and although it is Kelsky's
agenda to let the women speak, elaboration on this topic would have helped
in finding the historical roots of present-day consensus between some
Japanese internationalist women and western men in their mockery of Japanese
men.
In Chapter 1 the book familiarizes the reader with Tsuda Umeko, the famous
Japanese women's educator who herself was schooled in the United States
between the 1870s and the 1890s and eventually found her path in promoting
Japanese women's education by founding a higher academy for girls' English
study (now the Tsuda juku daigaku, Tsuda College in Tokyo). What is
noteworthy in Tsuda and in many other Meiji Japan women activists is that
they were also Christians-- contrary to present-day internationalist women.
Considering the basis of internationalism in Japanese women's thinking this
is something that may explain Kelsky's notion that today "internationalist
desires derived from this fantasy image [of the West] give birth to no
social movement" (p. 224). To contemporary Japanese women their various
investments to internationalize mean first and foremost an individual
project. Where Tsuda Umeko used her learning in the West to improve the
lives of young women under her guidance, present-day internationalist women
in Japan are driven to the West because of individual agendas.
>From Tsuda the text moves through Taisho (1912-1926) and early Showa periods
(from 1926 onwards) to wartime female internationalism concentrating on
Mishima Sumie and her memoir published in 1941. After World War II the
Occupation period offered ordinary women a chance to write for other women
what could be called "a program of relentless self-reform" (see p. 59) where
the American women were taken as forerunners of liberation politics. No
doubt the Occupation administration in its "two D's" program
(Democratization and Demilitarization) was keen on supporting these kinds of
ideas. In addition to written Western _akogare_, Kelsky deals with the
actual relations between the occupation troops and the Japanese women which
began to constitute the "sexual nexus of the Occupation" (p. 69). Despite
the fact that the women who dated American soldiers were scowled upon and
ridiculed (which is relatively common in countries during war-time), these
relations among others helped push the Japanese men to the backstage and
create a more gentle and peaceful image of Japan in America.
This phenomenon constitutes yet another phase in the "eroticization of
national power relations" which Kelsky very skillfully presents in her book.
One of the many strengths of _Women on the Verge_ is the theoretical
contextualization of Japanese women's Western _akogare_. In addition to
tracing the meanings of the foreign realm in the lives of internationalist
Japanese women, Kelsky also exposes their connections in transnational
relations, from individual to economic, from political to gendered. In this
web of global markets, national policies, and individual tactics the
internationalist women are shown to be conscious of the representations of
themselves as Japanese women and of the representations of the West in
Japan.
In Chapter 2 _Women on the Verge_ turns to "internationalism as resistance"
Hey, that's enough of that crap, you get the idea. I thought the bit about sexual relations with foreign men was interesting, though.
cheers,
sd
Those who like this sort of thing
will find this the sort of thing they like.
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