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I don't think we should post her articles anymore, as she just can't resist spitting some abuse at the nearest man in nearly every article, like the quote in this one:
Once, biology colluded with male privilege so that women bore the brunt of the consequences of sex.
I've had it with her, she's a feminist who pats us with one hand, and stabs us in the back with the other. No more, I've had enough.
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I don't agree--I think Cathy is a great writer and I'm always happy to see her work on this forum or others. Re: her comment "Once, biology colluded with male privilege so that women bore the brunt of the consequences of sex" I would say:
1) What she says is probably true.
2) Just because she criticizes men doesn't mean she's stabbing anyone in the back. The woman has a right to her opinion.
--Glenn Sacks
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Cathy Young did something virtually no other feminist writers are willing to do: reverse the genders. She points out that the current attitude that if you play, you pay (which ought to be considered a kind of threat) would be considered a callous thing to say to women; it's not considered callous to say to men they they might have to pay in the event of an unplanned pregnancy, and if they don't like it, they should keep it in their pants.
No one points out that society does not have to be organized that way. We could live in a society in which all chidren become wards of the state. We could make fathers the sole custodial parents. We could make mothers the sole custodial parents. We could make women bear all the costs of raising children, or we could make men bear all the costs, or we could make both parties share the cost equally. We could make all children homeless. It all depends on what kind of society you want to have. There's nothing built-in about human sexuality that makes it necessary or inevitable that a woman control every aspect of reproduction, including the knowledge of whose genetic material was used. We could go further in the direction of radical militant feminism, and order the summary execution of every male who was accused of using male birth control, when it becomes available, because the use of male birth control infringes on the "right" of women to control every aspect of reproduction, and to name any male as the father. Again, it all depends on the kind of society you want to live in.
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Look very carefully at what she says, Read between the lines. It's hidden well.
Regardless, I won't be changing my mind anytime soon.
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by Anonymous User on Monday August 12, @09:14PM EST (#5)
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"Regardless, I won't be changing my mind anytime soon."
Some anonymous user posted a few days ago stating that the problem with many men's rights organizations is that they have the unfortunate tendency of alienating their allies.
Respectfully, Adam, I believe that by disregarding her work because of some percieved hidden feminist agenda, you are disregarding an influential and potentially powerful ally. I am confused as to how you could conclude that this column was in any way hateful toward men. If anything, I think she is breaching an issue formerly forbidden to hold open discourse on. We should be excited that people, especially women, are speaking out for men's reproductive rights. The simple fact that this column made it to print is an accomplishment in itself.
I find it very unfortunate that many people who frequent this site tend to lose sight on the larger issues, and quarrel over petty, inconsequential issues buried within the larger picture. Not every men's activist, ifeminist, or equalitarian is going to have identical views on every single gender-related political issue, and it seems that whenever these differences of opinion arise, the debate devolves into accusations of "closet feminist", "troll", or whatever. Damn, people, the only way we are going to make change is through sheer numbers and loud voices, so quit defeating yourselves! The radical feminist totalitarian machine is strong enough; we don't need to make this fight any harder than it has to be.
I think that the column was a wonderful acknowledgement that men hold a complete lack of reproductive rights. Further, I believe that it was a wonderful acknowledgement that men should share some of those rights that women currently hold autonomously. Perhaps she wasn't as unforgiving of radical feminism as some might prefer, but it is certainly no reason to alienate her and denounce her extraordinary efforts.
The opposite of archetypal hate is hate itself; only in the middle ground can one transcend it and see something other.
-hobbes
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U agree with Hobbes. The fact that our issues are seeing even an inkling of recognition in the mainstream press, and that someone has made an effort to acknoledge the possibility that men might not have all the power in every conceivable domain is very positive.
I suppose I'm one of those troll baiters who can't resist pointing out the singular contribution of the troll to the world; in this case, I believe I'm doing a service to the men's movement: the women's movement never had anyone so capable of short-circuiting and exposing trolls. It's a hobby of mine; in real-life I'm seldom terrorized by put-down artists.
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Adam, I don't agree and I think your suggestion is unreasonable. We would be naive and closed minded to expect that everyone to line up with us in lock step, even if we could characterize our own, collective position clearly enough to do that. Cathy Young is in many ways like many other women out there who have been trained to believe implicitly that men ought to take whatever crap women choose to dish out and do so without expecting apology. However, the conscious part of her values seem much more aligned to favoring the same brand of gender equality most of us subscribe to here. Just because those deep-seated lessons come out once in awhile is no reason to reject the conscious support she does offer.
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When I did I say I wanted everyone to follow my line? In case you hadn't noticed, there is room for dissent.
However, reviews like this do make me a bit more critical than normal.
BTW Mars are you ok? You've been writing like a different guy lately.
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BTW Mars are you ok? You've been writing like a different guy lately.
How do you mean? In my case, my thinking is capable of undergoing astronimical evolution at superluminal speeds. Perhaps you're noticing the vast intellectual vistas hinted at by my writing these days, not to mention the awe-inspiring profundity.
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Astronomical. The keyboard is responsible.
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"In case you hadn't noticed, there is room for dissent."
What you suggested was to stop posting articles submitted to this site written by Cathy Young. And you implied that the justification for this was that she occasionally yeilds evidence of personal misandry of her own.
I don't want to get into a pissing contest here, but I'll say again that, if I understood you correctly, your suggestion is unreasonable, and in fact leaves very little room for dissent or even variance on opinions. You're suggesting the censoring of the very people who, in their own way, are trying to help you, and that, my friend, is contrary to what we are about here.
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What you suggested was to stop posting articles submitted to this site written by Cathy Young. And you implied that the justification for this was that she occasionally yeilds evidence of personal misandry of her own
Yes. Another case in point:
She wrote an article where she blamed Rusty Yates for the kid-killing incident, and she says this:
The decision to have more children and to home-school them may have been mutual, but that doesn't get Russell Yates off the hook.
In her eyes, a man having gotten consent is still guilty. See what I mean?
He's a man, lock him up! Consent be damned, a man's always in the wrong!
Anyway, if you want to leave it at this, that's fine. I just wanted to say what I thought.
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by Anonymous User on Tuesday August 13, @06:16PM EST (#13)
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((("I just wanted to say what I thought.")))
And NEVER stop doing so, Adam.
Thundercloud.
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Thundercloud, And you too. Cheers.
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I don't object to your having your opinion at all. But censoring the postings (beyond what might already be taking place), I'd object to that strongly.
Peace.
Frank
And OBTW, I do agree with you on the Rusty Yates thing. I read that article and I did let her know in unambiguous terms how I felt. Didn't get much of a reply. C'est la vie.
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