|
This discussion has been archived.
No new comments can be posted.
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Good for Glenn and Dianna!
We may make noise, vent some steam, write our letters, even influence legislators, but the real revolution taking place in response to the evil known as feminism is in the way that these authors describe. Why would a man marry? He could be intelligent and earnest and still be mistaken about the woman. The woman could change. He might change. In any case, the law is brutally, viciously stacked against him. It would be almost impossible to exaggerate the oppression of husbands and especially fathers by family courts -- their children are being taken from them!
People who choose to stick their heads in the ground about this like to cavalierly declare that the collapsing population will be remedied through immigration. What they refuse to acknowledge are the facts that:
1. Women choose to stay home with children more than men do, so we need highly educated men for the workplace, yet men are fleeing the nation's academy.
2. Wealthy, highly educated people are having far fewer children. Immigrants may not be educated enough to take up the slack in industry, the sciences, technology, etc.
This society is imploding.
Men need to also realize that if they live with a women, the government may declare that they are married and impose the same hideous oppression against them that is imposed upon formally married men.
Our work is important, but the real revolution by men is this, thus far, silent one. It has just begun and it will grow to dramatic proportions.
Enjoy the ride, folks. It's gonna be a long, wild one. And as is evidenced by other, recent posts to this board, it's getting heated, and it's gonna get really ugly. We are fighting a powerful, profoundly evil beast.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
The realities of the democratic process and the fact that women and their supporters control the electoral process through their electoral majority indiciate to me that the current situation will only continue to exacerbate and will only be remedied through the collapse of the U.S. Society and government The result of the same will be tragic for both American men and women.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
"The result of the same will be tragic for both American men and women."
If this is the case, then we certainly have an obligation to rise to the challenge.
.
Dan Lynch
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I'm already married. I love my wife, but I have recently decided to abstain from having children, for a lot of the reasons mentioned in the article. Fact is, my own good intentions will never be enough to protect me or my kids. I trust my wife, too, but there does come a time when you simply have to place your faith in something other than another person's goodwill.
It's been a difficult decision, but I think my wife understands. No matter how much she "trusts" a given person, she wouldn't enter into, say, a Saudi-style arrangement with them based purely on that trust. It's a difficult problem, but one that I think mainstream women are going to ultimately have to confront.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
there does come a time when you simply have to place your faith in something other than another person's goodwill.
Well put, nazgul. I, too, am married, and I dearly love my wife. Years ago, however, I decided not to have children for the reasons that you give. It's too bad, because I would have loved to have children -- in a better, non-misandrist society. So it goes. No one with any sense ever said that life is perfect.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
That's right. Life just isn't fair sometimes, in some eras, in certain places. I would love nothing more than to be a dad. Alas, my wife would love to be a mother. But it is precisely that trade-off that has led her to question what were once her most cherished (feminist) principles.
Freed Reed, whatever his faults, did say it best, and I paraphrase: Marriage is a commitment of several years of your life plus child support.
Well, you have to be crazy to go in for that kind of a deal, I think.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Freed Reed
Love it (and know it's a typo). He ought to change his name. :)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, as much as I am for the strike, Im not sure Im all for this not having kids cause life sucks thing.
Sorry guys, this is where I dissent. We forge our lives in the iron of our will. The risk is great I know, but denying yourself children, well, whats the point of even fighting for justice than anyways?
.
But then again this is coming from a guy who wants to knock up Christine Stolba (twice)
I dont think women are the enemy in this battle, they are the alli. If Feminism is fueled by fire(hatred) we will become water(love).
I'm not ready to give up yet, I don't believe you guys are either. I'm not telling you to have children, but I can certainly hear that you want to.
.
Dan Lynch
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I agree with Dan on this, but I do see the point, and it is a point that I will emphasize to my son. The decision to become a parent has to be based on the cooperative dreams of the mom and dad (hopefully husband and wife). It shouldn't be over-run by the circumstances of society. Marriage and parenting have to start from some point of trust and optimism. After all, that's how most of us got here, and unless we're willing to give up completely on the species, then we should choose to pro-create on those terms.
Just my two cents worth (if y'all think it's worth that much :-)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yeah, I think I can understand a man saying that in the present political climate and with the family court system being the way it is, he has decided that he doesn't want to have children. I do agree that the system is stacked against the guy.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
by Anonymous User on Saturday July 06, @06:02PM EST (#19)
|
|
|
|
|
I am a Father. I have suffered the indignities and injustices of family court. I suppose I am more fortunate than many because I came out with joint physical custody of my daughter (but nearly financially ruined).
Truth is...I'd do it all again for the sake of my daughter - even as I sorely wish it were not necessary. You know the saying that it's better to have loved and lost, than never to have loved at all? I guess you can say the same thing about fathering, because there really is no more profound love than that of a parent for their children.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
by Anonymous User on Friday July 05, @06:17PM EST (#8)
|
|
|
|
|
Part of the reason that men are treated as sub-humans in many places today is that men are often unwilling to speak out for their dignity as persons and against the injustices they face as males. Whether to go on a marriage strike is an individual man's choice. But every man should try to find the courage to talk about these issues. Don't just suffer silently. That is not heroic in this situation. That is not what it means to be manly.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
"Part of the reason that men are treated as sub-humans in many places today is that men are often unwilling to speak out for their dignity as persons...."
Those days are over, Anon, I have officially ended them as of today. Feel free to speak freely, if you have any problems, call me, I'll be your body guard.
.519 757 0909
.
Dan Lynch
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I applaud these men for doing what they have to do, but...I want to get married and have kids. Maybe it won't be a big problem in my generation, and maybe it will. I can't predict the future. *sigh*
Marriage is a social institution designed to coddle us gals, not oppress us. We like the idea of Mr. Right staying around until the day we die, being wonderful fathers to our kids. The problem is, many women can't tell Mr. Right from a hole in the ground, or, if they can, they bitch about all of their mate's HUMAN shortcomings. Period. Such is my opinion.
-Rivka
Learning to Adjust.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
" they bitch about all of their mate's HUMAN shortcomings. Period. Such is my opinion"
So, are you into writing that book, 'diary of a feminist' with me?
If they make a movie I promise hookers and drugs. And dont worry I come real 'cheap'.
.
Dan Lynch
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I applaud these men for doing what they have to do, but...I want to get married and have kids. Maybe it won't be a big problem in my generation, and maybe it will. I can't predict the future.
Yeah, and you can. The best thing you could do is to start a dialogue with your partner about what they thought of marriage kids etc at the start of the relationship so no-one gets surprised by what they other half thinks.
Don't worry, I do believe there is light at the end of this tunnel.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I want to get married and have kids. Maybe it won't be a big problem in my generation, and maybe it will.
One thing you can do is insist on an iron-clad (to the extent that iron-clad is possible) pre-nuptial agreement to try to counterbalance the extreme discrimination against men.
A thought experiment... Imagine a black person and a white person trying to set up a business relationship -- a business relationship that can, by law, only exist between one black person and one white person. Now imagine that it's clear from legislated and case law that either of you can leave the relationship at any time for as little a reason as a whim (no-fault divorce from the business relationship). However, whether it's the white person or the black person who decides to leave, legislated and case law hold that the white person will receive most of the business's assets (the place of business and what's inside that place of business for example), and the black person will have to give money to the white person for years to come, and the white person can take the black person's children, if the white person chooses to do so. That's the setup for the experiment.
Some people might say that such a business relationship is romantic. Some might say that the black person and the white person should each enter it with trust. I think, however, that when you run the thought experiment, you will find that few black people willingly enter into such a relationship. You will also find that, for those relationships that have been established, more whites than blacks leave the relationship for little or no reason.
Of course, if you change "black person" to "man" and "white person" to "woman" you have an analogy to marriage in our society.
If it were possible, however, to write out a contract that could, somewhat at least, counter the extreme prejudice against blacks in such a relationship, don't you think that an honest white person, who wanted to enter into such a relationship, would insist on having such a contract?
If you care for the man, insist on a pre-nup that will protect him. (And if you're a man with a woman who balks at such a pre-nup, well...) Just remember that the courts of the majority (read female) elected government can ignore the contract just as they so often ignore the constitution in order to oppress men.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, you could also reverse the two, for this arguement aswell.
Lets say that the woman was the Black guy, and the Man the white guy, and the perception is, the Black guy is the underpriveledged class. That the white guy does not need assitance because he is the "advantaged class", so the arguement being placed is it is a balancing effect, and that judges and juries fall for this arguement is because it is 'accepted common knowledge'. A major major mistake no doubt but one that has been working for a long time. Personally I blame the Democrates simply because of things like this http://www.aclu.org/ . What happens here is a collective bargaining policy that has polarized the people, and has pointed the fingers to one single group. Mind you it is my opinion that the Democrates would have gladely pointed fingers at whoever they felt like if they thought it would give them power; and thats what it boils down to, power. Not the right thing. Every fraction of the Feminist movement is probably 'left wing', its not about gender equality or racial equality, its about power. Im not telling people to change from being a democrate to a republican or anything like that. In fact Im saying quite the opposite. If their are Democrates in the house, go out and seek the truth, convince your senators that men's issues are a good cause.
"One thing you can do is insist on an iron-clad (to the extent that iron-clad is possible) pre-nuptial agreement to try to counterbalance the extreme discrimination against men."
Do not count on this to save you, an accusation of abuse will nullify it completely. Im not saying don't do it, but remember a good witch-hunt can destroy any and everything. It can certainly destroy this meaningless piece of paper.
.
Dan Lynch
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
LR:
I applaud these men for doing what they have to do, but...I want to get married and have kids. Maybe it won't be a big problem in my generation, and maybe it will. I can't predict the future. *sigh*
Marriage is a social institution designed to coddle us gals, not oppress us. We like the idea of Mr. Right staying around until the day we die, being wonderful fathers to our kids.
I'd argue that the origin of marriage is the reproductive partnership and its justification is that it helps both parties reproduce if they cooperate.
If people conceived of marriage as a partnership with specific objectives rather than as the outright ownership of another person or some sort of welfare program, I think there would be far less heat in the debate.
cheers,
sd
Those who like this sort of thing
will find this the sort of thing they like.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
...is male genital mutilation.
I am very dismayed that my parents consented to have a doctor mutilate me at a time when I could not give informed consent. On top of that, -none- of the anaesthetics used (when any are used at all!) do enough to prevent the sensation of pain. Some infants scream in a gut-wrenching cacophony, while others show signs of going into shock. Circumcision is assault and battery, a crime which, through my own ignorance, I simply assumed that I would wind up perpetuating by having any sons I sire put under the knife... but now I know better.
I could write a long rant about this, about how totally unnecessary it is, about how medical organizations nationwide say it is not indicated for neonates with normal penises, about how misconceptions about urinary tract infections have been debunked... but infocirc has that covered, I think.
I view circumcision to be another prong on the fork that's being jammed into the hearts of men everywhere. Legal reform and an outright banning of this practice of mutilating nonconsenting persons' genitals are the two things I want to see happen first, because I think they're the two most important problems facing males in this country.
As for Jews and Muslims who believe they must be circumcised, infocirc has documents available that refute the perceived obligation. Christianity has never required it, and during the Middle Ages and the Renaissance, it was virtually unheard of (and considered perverse) by many European Christians.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
by Anonymous User on Monday July 08, @06:41AM EST (#22)
|
|
|
|
|
I would run from my ex-wife before I met her, and there would be no marriage, and my two children - who I never get to see anyway - would not be.
Or I would get a vasectomy before the marriage.
Or I would have let her die when she had the appendicitis attack.
No, not far enough - any man so foolish as to marry under the current law should be put out of his misery when he arrives at the church. This goes above a mercy-killing.
|
|
|
|
|
[an error occurred while processing this directive]
|
