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by Anonymous User on Friday April 05, @12:01PM EST (#1)
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"Finley was actually rather lucky, as many battered husbands who call the police to report the abuse end up quite unfairly being the person arrested."
Nightmist, I have found conflicting accounts on who dialed 911. This article states:
"A third party called 911 after the couple arrived at their Newport Beach home."
Also, I am wondering if Chuck Finley realized that he was the victim of female on male DV. As you have pointed out, most men fail to realize that this is husband battery. They really don't think they are being abused or battered because men are taught that this is cute and they must take the attack without defending themselves to avoid injury.
I wonder what would have happened if he had have used equal force to stop the attack. My attorney tells me that despite the primary aggressor laws, the male victim has the absolute right to self-defense. Nevertheless, the police are currently using the primary laws to arrest most any male victim that defends himself.
I would like to see an open debate on when it is appropriate for a man to defend himself and how he can do so without being arrested by bigoted police officers.
Warble
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Actually I would like to know that now.
"I would like to see an open debate on when it is appropriate for a man to defend himself and how he can do so without being arrested by bigoted police officers." by Warble
I would like to know when a man can defend himself against a woman. I can't believe I hit someone tonight, its so against my grain, but she hit me first what was I supposed to do?????
Anyone who is in the ontario area may e-mail me at anytime. Dan Lynch
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I would like to know when a man can defend himself against a woman. I can't believe I hit someone tonight, its so against my grain, but she hit me first what was I supposed to do?????
Personally, I don't believe it is appropriate to hit back, man or woman. I mean if your life was in jeopardy or something like that, that would be different. If it's the only way to get them to stop that would be different. But if you only hit them out of spite to try to retain honor or something to that effect, I don't believe honor can be retained by hitting someone out of spite. But that's just me.
-----
This signature has been infected with Anthrax. Take your medicine.
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In order to express her disagreement to a comment I once made, my sister popped me in the face with a dish towel, in a whip-like action. While the actual pain that I felt was minimal, I did not appreciate being popped in the face. My reaction? I slapped her... well, I didn't have a dish towel..
While my sister and I certainly get along well and there are no hard feelings about this incident, I am pretty confident that she will think twice before ever striking me again.
Admittedly, I was not in serious jeopardy or anything remotely resembling a life-threatening situation, but I did not hit her out of spite or to retain honor. I did it in the hopes that it would cause her to never hit me again.
My point is that I believe that sometimes it is necessary to hit back, within reason(I admit this is extremely subjective), even though there is no immediate danger. I certainly wouldn't have even considered throwing a punch. I don't think that would have been reasonable, or even necessary, in that situation. I think the slap got my point across.
Had this been a wife or a girlfriend, I don't know what I would have done. I probably would not have touched her at all. Anyone familiar with the legal system should know why...
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My mom tolded me as a boy (after a fight a got into) "If someone hits you, you hit them back." and then she would always state "Even if its a girl."
I'v only ever acctually hit 2 two people since that. One guy and one girl. Needless to say the girl was completely shocked. Mind you, I didn't hit these people with more force then they hit me, just the the same. The girl did try to get me in trouble, but the teachers knew I would never hit anyone unless it was in retaliation.
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Mind you, I didn't hit these people with more force then they hit me, just the the same. The girl did try to get me in trouble, but the teachers knew I would never hit anyone unless it was in retaliation.
I believe that is an exception. Most teachers are quite bigoted against boys. They actively train them to believe they have no right of self-defense when assulted by a girl.
It doesn't matter to teachers that self-defense laws expresely permit the boy to use an equal amount of defensive or offensive force to stop the attack.
I was slapped by a girl when I was yonger for joking with her. She didn't like the joke (it wasn't dirty - just sarcsam). It was something about her boyfriend and making out in his car. I was about 15 at the time.
Funny thing is that the entire church justified her slapping me. They thought that because she was a girl she an intrinsicly superior moral ground. Her judgement and physical assult was considered proper. Somehow, in that conservative setting, women were afforded special rights to physically assult boys with a hard slap. When I objected, they all told me that women can hit men if they want.
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Being the Ayn Rand worshipper that I am, I am convinced that the only justification for resorting to physical force is in self defense. That being said, if someone hits you first, you are under no obligation to take it. While "turning the other cheek" sounds nice, it'll most likely get your other cheek slapped or punched. If you decide not to hit back, that's your choice. However, rest assured that if you do decide to hit back, you have a firm moral ground to stand on.
Everyone has the right to be free from aggression. However, if someone hits you first (be it man or woman), they then forfeit their own right to be free from aggression.
Of course, convincing law enforcement of that is another matter.
"Force and mind are opposites; morality ends where a gun begins." -John Galt
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Everyone has the right to be free from aggression. However, if someone hits you first (be it man or woman), they then forfeit their own right to be free from aggression.
Unfortunately, the right for a man to defend himself against an abusive wife has been severly weakened. This is due to the new primary aggressor laws that eliminate the consideration of the first agressor.
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I felt so bad for hitting her today. I still have that instinctive role in me. I keep telling myself, I hit a woman, I should have just let her hit me a few times and maybe she would have gave up and left. She hit, then prepared to hit me again, so I reacted and hit her the same way she hit me. She had high heels on so she slipped, but she was up in no time. Her friend got in on the fun and started hitting me to, then people got out of the car and started yelling after me. I couldnt very well stand there and beat the shit out of two chicks, and if I did stay I would no doubt be fighting whoever got out of the car so I ran. All this talk about men being defenseless in women on men bashings has got the better of me. I decided not to take it from her. It was over nothing, I wasnt saying anything bad to her, but she jumped all over what I did say as if I intended something else. I feel so bad. I was drunk and I was doing shooters. She was drinking and driving. I don't think I would feel this way if I hit a man. I think I would feel proud. The double standards are ingrained in my head. I told them I was defending myself. The strike looked worse that it was because she fell, but it was because she slipped mostly. But I think her jaw hurts as much as mine. She was a big girl too. God help me, I feel good that I treated her like an equal, but I still hope she wasnt hurt.
Anyone who is in the ontario area may e-mail me at anytime. Dan Lynch
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I was going to submit this today myself. I saw it on TV, on Extra Extra (no i don't acctually watch it, I was just flipping through channels). And according to the show a neighboor heard what was happening, called the police. When the police got there they saw the wounds that were caused. They arrested the woman without charges made from Finley, due a law where police can arrest someone without charges as long as there are visiable wounds. EE also did mention that the woman had prior history of agression and violience. And that this wasn't the first time that Tammy had hit and beaten Finley. So, it was nice that EE didn't try to make Tammy like look a victim at all, in fact they went the opposite way.
But has to no surprise here, Mr. Finley doesn't want to talk about this or deal with it in public. So maybe someone like Sacks should try to get in contact with Finley and talk to him. Could you imagine the public work someone like Finley could do. A lot of men watch baseball, and look up to Finley. And the unfortunate truth is, battered men needs someone like Finley (I say unfortunate because this shouldn't be happenning in the first place, to anyone).
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no surprise here, Mr. Finley doesn't want to talk about this or deal with it in public.
It's possible that he cares about her a lot (he did marry her) and while he saw having her arrested as his only option, he doesn't want to make this worse for her than it has to be. And one thing I noticed is that according to the article, she is staying in his house while he stays "elsewhere." My ex-girlfriend used to beat on me a lot, and it never stopped me from loving her or from feeling that she loved me--I think for a lot of battered it is the same.
maybe someone like Sacks should try to get in contact with Finley and talk to him.
But I think that is a great idea.
it was nice that EE didn't try to make Tammy like look a victim at all, in fact they went the opposite way.
Yeah it might be nice to pop them out a quick thank-you email for bucking the trend and reporting the situtation fairly.
-----
This signature has been infected with Anthrax. Take your medicine.
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by Anonymous User on Friday April 05, @03:38PM EST (#3)
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John Saraceno made this comment today in the USA Today,..."Did you read about pitcher Chuck Finley allegedly being beaten by his wife, actress Tawny Kitaen? Maybe he got caught at the wrong bachelor party." Though he was merely joking as Ms. Kitaen was the female lead in the movie "Bachelor Party," I'll say it again...would the same joke be made if the genders were reversed. Better yet, would ANY joke be made if the genders were reversed? I don't think we should hang Saraceno out to dry for this one but I think mentioning this to him is the least we should do.
Mark
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Though he was merely joking as Ms. Kitaen was the female lead in the movie "Bachelor Party," I'll say it again...would the same joke be made if the genders were reversed.
No doubt, Mark. And now I'm wishing I had known about this story earlier this week. I'm sure Jay Leno has had lots to say about it.
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I'm sure Jay Leno has had lots to say about it.
Did you see Leno last night, Nightmist???
I didnt but apparently he had the stereotypical comments about men being abused by their wives, But in one note its the same borish stereotypical crap he verbally diarrhoea's out.
Anyone who is in the ontario area may e-mail me at anytime. Dan Lynch
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Did you see Leno last night, Nightmist???
No, but I'm watching it tonight to see if he says anything about it.
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I don;t know where this happened, but note that the POLICE noticed the abrasions on Finley and chose to arrest Kitaen. Perhaps the police department should get a couple of "Attaboy" letters noting their fairmindedness in this case.
Frank
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Quite an important point.
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by Anonymous User on Friday April 05, @09:40PM EST (#11)
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No the same joke probably would not be made if the genders were reversed and there's a reason for that. Don't tell me that a perfectly healthy baseball player would be so terrified of his female partner that he could be kept in the relationship through fear.
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ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh we all know how *big* , *tough*, and *brawny* those baseball brutes are.
;)
Remo, enjoying his first laugh of the night
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by Anonymous User on Friday April 05, @10:38PM EST (#15)
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Yes we do know how tough those baseball players are.
What are you guys? A bunch of wimps?
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Oooooh. We're getting trolled by a feminazi again. I love it when they try to push that same old "wimp" button. Just doesn't have the same magic effect now does it? (chuckle)
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Kinda reminds me of the time I had a "discussion" with a woman about battered men. She said "Men are bigger and can take it." As though men should have to take it.
But that brings up an interesting point. All my life I've heard women say "Women have a higher tolerance for pain. We can take pain better, because after all, we have babies. If men had to have babies, the world's population would suddenly come to an end!"
Well, let's assume for just a minute that that leap of illogic is true. If women do indeed have higher tolerances for pain, then women can "take it" too. In fact, if women have such a higher tolerance for pain, then they can "take" domestic violence better than a man can.
So my message for our troll is this: Next time you hear of a woman being battered, you be sure and tell her "Stop your whining! Shut up and take it like a woman!" Because after all, she has a higher tolerance for pain, so she most certainly can take it.
"Oh, but that's not the same!" someone will exclaim. It never is, is it?
"Force and mind are opposites; morality ends where a gun begins." -John Galt
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I can see it becoming more and more that even with the balance of men's rights in domestic violence, that whats going to happen is both sides are going to claim "victimhood". The Police will be helpless in deciding who is the aggressor. So they will have to go by, who made the call to 911 first. Does this raise the bar for more wrongful accusations??
Anyone who is in the ontario area may e-mail me at anytime. Dan Lynch
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>The Police will be helpless in deciding who is the aggressor. So they will have to go by, who made the call to 911 first. Does this raise the bar for more wrongful accusations??
This sounds like a complaint because the police will not have a simple "do this first" approach to domestic abuse.
I consider that a good thing. As the awareness of domestic abuse against males increases, hopefully police will realize that they shouldn't view DA as a simple problem with a simple answer. They should ALWAYS consider that the female may be the abuser- even if she calls first, even if she has visible scars, and even if the man has a temper.
Gary
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I hope your right Gary,
In fact I hit a woman tonight. I couldnt believe it.
I was making a joke with her, and she got very defensive as if I was attacking her virtue,( I was not, and didnt even think about it,) I thought she knew me so I was making light of the situation. She esculated in remarks, and like a dumbe ass I responded with remarks and she came over, I was "so what are you going to do? Hit me?"and I couldnt believe it she did, not a slap a full out strike with the heel of her palm. I thought she was going to hit me again so I hit her open handed and I couldnt believe it she fell to the ground. She was up fast and swinging again and her friend was there then more people came so I just ran, I felt I was in a no win situation, they started saying all this "so you feel like your a man hitting a woman" I was yelling "fuck you I was defending myself" . I didnt want to fight, I was trying to make a joke with her, I thought I knew her well enough to do that, . I liked her I didnt want to piss her off, this whole gender war is out of control.
Anyone who is in the ontario area may e-mail me at anytime. Dan Lynch
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....I couldnt believe it she did, not a slap a full out strike with the heel of her palm.
You're lucky she didn't have you arrested. People just don't believe that men should have the right of self-defense when a women attacks. We are just supposed to stand there and accept the assult.
The law however is quite specific. We have the right to go on the offensive (if necessary) to prevent injury using an equal amount of force (if necessary). Unfortunately, most juries don't believe that is true with female on male violence.
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by Anonymous User on Friday April 05, @09:53PM EST (#12)
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The police should decide on the basis of which gender shows up dead in these incidents most often.
Plain and simple. Believe me you're going to hear about it if the women in these situations are put in even more danger, cowards.
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Because when the men show up dead...well, that's OK. It's the women whose lives are important. Don't you see that, you cowards?!
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HaHaHa, I guess my point is hypothetical, "IF" men have equal rights in these situations, the police will be left with confusion as to who they should arrest. I dont care really, I guess some people can't control themselves. I learned that tonight, it will be interesting to see what happens with the fist "i" cuffs with that girl tonight I had. She hit me first, but somehow I think that will get swept under the table. My jaw is sore right now, she hit me pretty good. But I'm thing I am not provoked to call anyone for help, I'm not compelled to find justice. No one is telling me I'm a victim. But my jaw still hurts. God I wish that whole incedent never happened.
Anyone who is in the ontario area may e-mail me at anytime. Dan Lynch
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Unfortunately, logic and reason ain't what they used to be. Instead of the police making a decision on a case-by-case basis, our trolling friend would have them arresting the man simply because (s)he believes that women "show up dead" most often. It doesn't matter that in any particular case the woman may have been the aggressor. It doesn't matter that the man may have bruises, cuts, or other abbrasions on his body. It doesn't matter that the man may have made the 911 call. It doesn't matter that the woman may even confess to attacking her spouse.
According to our friendly troll, the man must be arrested, regardless. Why? Well, because more women "show up dead", that's why!
So, Anonymous User, if it's proven that the woman is the aggressor, at what point in time should she be arrested? A day later? A week? A month? A year? When?
Or should she be arrested at all? After all, men are bigger and can "take it", right?
It's important to note that people of the same persuasion as our trolling friend are the ones who constantly cry phrases like "Social Justice!" and "Rights!" Yet where is the justice in a man being arrested if he is the victim? What about a man's rights? Specifically, the right to be free from aggression and the right to EQUAL PROTECTION UNDER THE LAW?
I guess in the mind of our troll, rights and justice only apply when it concerns his/her favorite group.
"Force and mind are opposites; morality ends where a gun begins." -John Galt
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Please ignore the troll in this thread, folks. She/He is here to disrupt the topic (as she/he thought she/he did on the thread about "For Better Or For Worse"). No point in feeding that fantasy.
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I agree with Nightmist. I've certainly fed our troll in the past, but I think the best way to counter *her* is just to ignore *her*.
Brought to you by the sham mirrors.
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Nightmist: "She/He is here to disrupt the topic (as she/he thought she/he did on the thread about "For Better Or For Worse")."
The irony there is that she/he did draw a very apt and relevant comparison that I hadn't seen before. Our society views depictions of male-on-female violence as porn and depictions of female-on-male violence as amusing family entertainment.
It's good to point out and realize we are working for the day when society reacts to female-on-male violence with the same revulsion and contempt. Then, those who find a woman hitting a man "amusing" will have to go to an Internet porn site to get their jollies.
Even from trolls we can learn something.
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It's good to point out and realize we are working for the day when society reacts to female-on-male violence with the same revulsion and contempt. Then, those who find a woman hitting a man "amusing" will have to go to an Internet porn site to get their jollies.
According to my Merriam-Webster Collegiate Dictionary, one of the definitions of pornography is, "The depiction of acts in a sensational manner so as to arouse a quick, intense emotional reaction."
If she was trying to arouse laughter (For Better or for Worse is a comic strip after all) then the creator of the strip is a pornographer. In fact, everyone involved in portraying violence as comedy (in mainstream media it's almost always violence against men) is a pornographer. I think we should start using the proper term for the depiction of violence (usually against men) for comedic purposes: Pornography.
It literally is.
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Tawny Kitaen's drug prescription.
-----
This signature has been infected with Anthrax. Take your medicine.
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