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In Canada someone can refuse on religeous basis, and that basis has a wide spectrum, you don't have to even go to church to say its against your beliefs to kill. My question has anyone in the U.S. ever argued on the grounds that the draft is sexually descriminating?
Dan Lynch
Christine Stolba for President. Dan Lynch
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In Canada someone can refuse on religeous basis, and that basis has a wide spectrum, you don't have to even go to church to say its against your beliefs to kill. My question has anyone in the U.S. ever argued on the grounds that the draft is sexually descriminating?
The U.S. courts have upheld the all-male draft in at least one sexual discrimination case of which I am aware.
Here is the Selective Service home page, and here are their lame reasons women aren't also required to register.
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has anyone in the U.S. ever argued on the grounds that the draft is sexually descriminating?
I'm afraid so, Dan. The Supreme Court has ruled, and ruled again upon review, that the all-male draft is legal. In other words, the constitution (read "the 14th Amendment" that purportedly guarantees equal protection under the law) is a joke.
To put it another way, the majority (read "female") elected government has the right (read "power") to force men to kill, to be horribly maimed, to be captured and tortured and to be brutally killed solely because they were born outside of the ruling female biological group.
Feminists keep us men divided against ourselves in part by claiming that the suffering of minorities is entirely the fault of white men. This issue of the all-male draft should be used to galvanize and unite all men and boys in defense against our oppressors and murderers.
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Yes the femminists have been working hard and long to turn everyone against the white man. I think that the Americans should make a big stink about it as much as they can. In Canada I believe that the draft could be reinstated in a drop of a hat. But I also believe if it came down to defending our country we would in a heart beat. I agree with Plato the double standards are whats crap. Dan Lynch
Christine Stolba for President. Dan Lynch
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I remember comments from state senators about these, this may have just been the way the journalist wanted it to be presented, but the two female senators interviewed were against the draft and the two male senators were for it - citing, as usual, patriotism and citizenship and blah blah.
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Who knows the older generation have been brainwashed into male patriotism i.e. dying for their country. The women (older) don't seem to dissagree nor feel compelled to fight. The whole thing is twisted a generation later. Sometimes I look a war and see it as a way the older generations can kill off the younger ones, like aligators eating the young and up and coming competitors. Of course I'm insane and my comments are totally unresearched, but as wiccid says, "let the old fight their own fights" to paraphrase. Dan Lynch
Christine Stolba for President. Dan Lynch
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by Anonymous User on Friday March 15, @12:57PM EST (#5)
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I'm glad I live in Canada when I read about these things. The information on the Selective Service website is really scary to read.
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by Anonymous User on Friday March 15, @01:20PM EST (#7)
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Tsk!
The obligation of those who live within a country to defend , is something that both I, and Plato, agree on. However, that would not necessarily apply unless the country its'-self was in danger of physical invasion.
The war on terrorism is "small-scale " enough , and the US Armed Forces are large enough, that, even if we invade Iraq, we probably won't need a draft.
Its not the very notion of a draft that bothers me, its the unequal obligations imposed on men alone. Esp when we LET females enter the military voluntarily.
remo
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Not just voluntarily , but they do not have to complet missions, and can refuse assignments, and face no penalty from what I understand.
Dan Lynch
Christine Stolba for President. Dan Lynch
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by Anonymous User on Friday March 15, @03:43PM EST (#19)
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You know, the draft wouldn't be so oppressive if the U.S. Constitution was to read that draftees could only be used on American soil, in the case of an invasion of American soil. That's really what the draft is meant for: national DEFENSE, not corporate OFFENSE. Anyone who wants to go off to war can volunteer for it, as they do now. On the other hand, I suppose that the draft would be unnecessary in that case.
Perhaps a grass-roots campaign to make this change to the Constitution is in order?
Frank H
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"You know, the draft wouldn't be so oppressive if the U.S. Constitution was to read that draftees could only be used on American soil, in the case of an invasion of American soil. That's really what the draft is meant for: national DEFENSE, not corporate OFFENSE."
Very well put.
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The obligation of those who live within a country to defend , is something that both I, and Plato, agree on. However, that would not necessarily apply unless the country its'-self was in danger of physical invasion.
Agreed.
even if we invade Iraq, we probably won't need a draft.
"Probably," of course, is an important word in this case.
Its not the very notion of a draft that bothers me, its the unequal obligations imposed on men alone. Esp when we LET females enter the military voluntarily.
The president can get us into an armed conflict that can lead to war. Congress declares war. I'm not sure who calls up the draft. If women don't suffer and die in war in numbers commensurate with their percentage of the draft-age population, then we should ask ourselves if any woman has the right to be in congress or to be president.
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by Anonymous User on Friday March 15, @04:51PM EST (#23)
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I wonder where some of participants in these chat rooms come up with some of these statements about life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. To maintain these ideals/freedoms the country must maintain a deterrent and vigilant force. They (government) must always have contingent plans in place (the draft). It is a fool who under estimates his opponent or enemy. I don't know if any of these participants have been in foreign countries during national strikes or elections. How about governments walking out and leaving the country in a state of turmoil where nothing moves. Hospitals shut down, police and fire departments unable to assist people who really need help. Runs on banks, leaving people unable to buy food or other necessities. If its anarchy you want, move somewhere else, out side of the United States. And please, don't bother to ask to come back or ask for amnesty because you think you've made a bad choice or decision.
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I wonder where some of participants in these chat rooms come up with some of these statements
Yoo hoo! Hellloooo! From what I see, most of the posts here don't object to defending one's country. They object to the heavy burden of the draft being placed entirely on men.
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On Wednesday night I was listening to National Public Radio which was airing President Bush's press conference. At one point a reporter brought up the draft and specifically asked, "don't you think the draft should also apply to women?" I was blown away. Bush of course evaded the question and explained that the draft will not be necessary because our volunteer military is sufficient.
Still, to hear that question being asked amazed me. I wish I knew who that journalist was.
Scott
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Bush of course evaded the question and explained that the draft will not be necessary because our volunteer military is sufficient.
Last I read, Bush is considering a force of 250,000 to invade Iraq. Most of those combatants will be American. It won't take a need for much more to make the draft necessary, and much of the combat may well end up hand-to-hand in the cities, particularly Baghdad (not the push-button war of the future that so many people dream of).
If we start having hundreds, perhaps thousands, of young male draftees coming home in body bags, it may well be the flashpoint of the men's movement.
BTW, Scott, Nightmist, and I (and Adam?) have all been "taking a break." I felt a little odd jumping in here, and out of that break again, but I'm glad to see none of us could resist this one.
The government is preparing to round us up. Off to the camps notawomen!
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Yeah, I'm still here. I'll try to not lurk so much.
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Yeah, I'm still here. I'll try to not lurk so much.
Hello, Adam. I hope you didn't take what I wrote as a criticism. I just wasn't sure if you were on an "official" break.
Cheers!
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It's okay Tom, everybody probably thought I was missing in action :-)
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*snort* Bush's own service record during the war makes me wonder what he is thinking anyway. Not everyone can have daddy arrange nice stateside positions for us during war time.
I always wondered why "war" shouldn't be one-on-one combat, leader against leader. Rather than making the 18 year old boys (and girls, these days) go out and get killed, make the middle-aged rich guys (and women, these days) fight their own damn battles.
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>Bush of course evaded the question and explained >that the draft will not be necessary because our >volunteer military is sufficient.
Which is why we still require young men to register themselves for the draft, not because there's need... but... uh... So we don't require women to register for the draft because the military is sufficient but men are still required for no given reason??
My boyfriend finally went and registered, was a very depressing day.
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by Anonymous User on Friday March 15, @01:59PM EST (#15)
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I know when I received my US citizenship (in addition to my Canadian one) about a year ago they made me sign the draft card. I was kind of creeped out having to fill this in, but figured there was no way around it.
I suppose if I really wanted I could take shelter in Canada if there was a draft. Of course I may need to take shelter in the US if the Canadian DV industry decides to come after me. Who knows, I might end up living in Zimbabwe, the closest thing in the world to a free and fair democracy.
Garth
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Garth you have already commited domestic violence by entering canadian citizenship and being male, your best off with the draft you may have a better chance of dodging landmines than the long and descriminatory arm of the law in canada. Dan Lynch. P.S. women have been the majority of people who have hit me, maybe I shuld join the army to escape the violence.
Christine Stolba for President. Dan Lynch
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by Anonymous User on Friday March 15, @03:03PM EST (#17)
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We are all guilty in the Western World of domestic violence just because we are men. I will immigrate to the United States when I turn 27 years old, isn't that the age when they can't kill you with the draft anymore? But you can't escape the guilty of DV thing just by moving there unfortunately, and then there's all those men paying CS for kids that are not theirs. that's all too common.
the only way to escape all that is suicide.
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the only way to escape all that is suicide.
I think your right and that is why over 3000 men have committed suicide in Canada last year, nobody seems to know why. Nor do they seem to care, unless you go to war and get a medal and return in a box. Dan Lynch
Christine Stolba for President. Dan Lynch
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I will immigrate to the United States when I turn 27 years old, isn't that the age when they can't kill you with the draft anymore?
Any such age is arbitrary and can and will be changed as needed. If I remember correctly, men were drafted in WWII Germany up to the age of 60. Also, boys have been drafted in Iraq and Afghanistan down to, what, 4? (They're good for sweeping land mines, I guess.)
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by Anonymous User on Friday March 15, @06:07PM EST (#27)
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For WWII, I might have gone to fight. I mean it was an important cause. I just don't want to go to something like Vietnam. That was just wrong.
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Using state sponsored coercion to promulgate individuals to serve and/or to register to serve in the military will be counter-productive as it has and will instill in males the very trenchant concept that it is a state sponsored invasion of their individual liberties such that they should, as a matter of principle and self-interest, rebel against the same. North American women demand privilge and no public nor private responsibilty while, at the same time, using their electoral strength, as in the military draft, to force public responsibilites and burdens on males. The long term affect of the same is the degradation of public ethics and the destruction of the foundations of a a stable political state, the anti-thesis of what these draconian military draft laws invision as promulgating. The governments of North America should set an example by makeing males, through laws and practices, believe that they have the equal protection of the laws and the equal rights of all citizens with generous and just compensation for their military service. Men will register for the draft when they feel that the state represents their just interests and liberties rather than the selfish and unjust interests of those who are unwilling and unable to defend their country, namely women and others who now receive preferential treatment in North America. By example, not coercion, will North American governments induce males into military service. I served with the U.S. Army;4th Inf. Div.; 2/8th Inf.;Republic of Vietnam 1969-1970
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generous and just compensation for their military service.
Upon his registering for the draft, pay each man $200,000. If the man serves, make it $500,000. Where to get the money? Tax women.
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If the man serves...
Make that "If the man is drafted..."
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by Anonymous User on Sunday March 17, @11:10AM EST (#31)
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The gov. constantly refers to a drivers license as a privilege.Its NOT a privilage,its a GOD GIVEN RIGHT enshrined in the bill of rights.All Americans have the god given right to travel freely,unhindered by the gov. with "transportation of the times".Be it a horse and buggy or be it an automobile.The ONLY restrictions are trade[commerce and trucking] or if you are PROVEN to be a public menace.The practice of taking drivers licenses and passports is unconstutitional.You can go be blown to pieces for your gov. at 18 but you cant have a beer.This scam is but another unconstutitional violation of the rights of the people of the USA.
An elected legislature can trample a mans rights as
easily as a king can. Benjamin Martin-The Patriot
[Mel Gibson]
Why should I trade 1 tyrant 3000 miles away for 3000
tryants 1 mile away? Benjamin Martin-The Patriot
[Mel Gibson]
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