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Can someone send me the chat log? my e-mail is just above this.
Cheers.
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Hi Adam,
Since the chat is being held in the iFeminists chat room, you'll have to ask Wendy for a copy of the transcript. I believe she's said she'll be happy to send them to those who request them by e-mail. Wendy's e-mail address is mac@zetetics.com.
BTW, when does the Super Bowl start? * Is this going to conflict with it?
Scott
* I guess I'm showing my lack of interest in football with this statement. :)
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Cheers Scott.
Actually, I'll see if I can make this one.
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I AM SOOOO THERE!
Although I have to leave @ 10 for a club meeting.
"Female men's activist" is not an oxymoron.
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I AM SOOOO THERE!
Excellent! New blood. :)I will be there as well... as almost always. ;) I generally watch the Super Bowl, but my Titans fricked up big time at the beginning of the season, and I've not followed the NFL as much as a result.
In other words, I don't really care about this year's Super Bowl. :)
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One needs look no further than the greatest series of sci-fi books of all time to see how women are portrayed: The Dune Chronicles. However, in that case, it wasn't so much Frank Herbert portraying women as villains or evil, as it was him simply accurately displaying the attitudes of many modern feminists. The Bene Gesserit and the Honored Matres were two classic examples of misandrists with lots of power and a superiority complex. (For those of you who have never read the Dune Chronicles, I strongly urge you to do so!!!!!)
The Honored Matres possibly could have been considered "evil", but the Bene Gesserit would probably best be described as simply misguided. Both, however, shared a striking similarity with modern feminism: the idea that women are superior, all the while camouflaging their sexism with the notion that they are benevolent victims of forces greater than themselves.
Anyway, please pardon my going off on that tangent. I'm arguably the world's biggest Dune fan, and this was right up my alley! :o)
"Force and mind are opposites; morality ends where a gun begins." -John Galt
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But what would you say about the Bene Gesserit Jessica of House Atreides? Or Paul's wives (Irulan and Chani) or his sister? They all sacrified themselves for the benefit of his religion.
Having said that, what do you think of William Gibson's portrayals of women in his universe? Molly, especially (the lady with the scalpels in her fingertips). What do you think of Heinlein's and Anderson's women in fiction? What do you think about Le Guin, and Russ, and Tiptree? How about Harlan Ellison and how his viewpoints have changed and changed again over the years? What about Rusch? What about Philip K. Dick's story in "Again, Dangerous Visions"?
Just teasing.
I'm going to try to make it for the chat.
"I'll preserve one last male thing in the museum of this world, if I can." -- D.H. Lawrence.
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Just teasing.
I'm going to try to make it for the chat.
I would hope so. You certainly seem to know a lot about the topic. :)
Scott
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Well Coyote, I never said Herbert portrayed *all* women in that manner. But the two most prominent female groups in the Dune universe were anything but benevolent. (Well, the Bene Gesserit may be considered *partly* benevolent.) :o)
But a couple of your points need to be addressed. First, Chani was never Paul's wife. She was his bound concubine.
Second, don't make the mistake of thinking Irulan was some kind of saint. She was one of the key players in the conspiracy against Paul in the 2nd novel. It wasn't until later that she "came around", so-to-speak.
As for his sister Alia, she didn't exactly sacrifice herself for Paul. Leto II killed her, if memory serves correctly.
I'd love to discuss this more with you, but I suspect this isn't the proper forum. If ya wanna write me and chat about Dune, my addy is:
napnip@mindspring.com
"Force and mind are opposites; morality ends where a gun begins." -John Galt
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