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I made a similar post on another thread, but I want to do my best to get an answer, so I'll post this here.
I didn't write to Ames about this issue. (I write a number of emails in response to this sort of thing, but I don't have the time to write to every business that has a misandrist advertisement.) Anyway, I think it's not only important to complain about wrongs but also to thank those who take action to right those wrongs. If anyone who reads this has Stephanie Liebl's personal email address, would you please post it here so I, and anyone else who wants to, can write to her to thank her for her concern and action? Thanks.
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C'mon, lighten up a bit! Young girls who buy such stickers do so to laugh among themsleves. When I encountered buttons proclaiming "Boy Power!" at such a vending machine, I did not complain that there should "Girl Power" buttons. Besides, I want my boys to be able to continue to have their "Girls are yucky" stickers.
Furthermore, I am a staunch defender of free speech and against censorship. The best remedy for bad or offensive speech is more, good and non-offensive speech.
As an activist, I do not hesitate to take action when I feel it is warranted. With so many more pressing issues with which to deal, I think you are missing the forest for the trees.
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As an activist, I do not hesitate to take action when I feel it is warranted. With so many more pressing issues with which to deal, I think you are missing the forest for the trees.
I would sincerely love to know where on earth you found any sticker with "Boy Power" on it. Also, this debate is old. The stickers are beating up on children because they are male, and that's something which should not be tolerated. Likewise, if misandry were a bit less prevalent in the media these days (and misogyny not practically outlawed), I think a majority of us would be willing to let some things like this slide. However, it is and I ain't.
Even if you did find a sticker that said "Boy Power," I sincerely doubt you'll ever see one that says "Girls Are Aliens," "Girls Are Brainless," or "I Make Girls Cry."
Also, your definition of censorship is a bit off. Ames is a business which aims (pun intended) to please its consumers. If its consumers are offended, then they should complain, and Ames should respect them enough to take care of the problem. If someone in government said "no one can ever say anything bad about this individual," then *that* is censorship.
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p.s. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen anything anti-girl on a popular slogan medium (like stickers or t-shirts). The only t-shirt slogans I've ever seen which are gender related are things like: "Let's face it. Girls are smarter." That one's been on T-shirts since the 1970s. A newer one is "Girls rule. Guys drool," which is completely stupid.
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I agree with Nightmist on this. Right now the general assumption is that men don't care about children--theirs or anyone else's--and that therefore, men should be punished. A vast bureaucratic apparatus exists for separating fathers from their children and having them pay punitive amounts of child support based on what some kangaroo court decides the father could earn, for arbitrarily sticking innocent men with back child support bills with interest simply because some minor functionary decides to go after anyones whose name matches that of an alleged deadbeat in case he happens to be the real father, and on and on. I suppose one could adapt an argument from Warren Farrell and conjecture that women want men who are willing take on such risks to prove that they are worthy to sire their children, and that the laws are an extension of the female mate selection process--if that's the case, then I suppose I'm unworthy because I've decided against getting married and fathering children on account of the wild and often denied imbalance in power that the law gives to women, but I digress.
I mention this to suggest that the larger context in which the bashing of innocent little boys occurs lends the Ames vending machine sticker incident a significance that it might not otherwise have.
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by Anonymous User on Monday December 31, @08:21PM EST (#5)
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What about "Jew kids are tightwads!" or "Don't trust blacks" or even "Fags smell bad"??????
Supporting free speech is one thing, but please recognize that we have the free speech right to denounce these kinds of hate.
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Supporting free speech is one thing, but please recognize that we have the free speech right to denounce these kinds of hate.
Good point, Anonymous. In fact, this seems like a good time to remind people about the bigotry test. When you encounter something you think *might* be misandry, but you're not sure, try putting the words "black men" in place of "men" or some other such description about a specific group of people. If it sounds like bigotry that way, then it is misandry, and we should fight it.
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I have seen in public things like these stickers that were sold at Ames. There is no doubt in my mind that many a boy who sees them suffers as a result. When people go out of their way to cause children pain, I do not ignore their actions or pretend that they are irrelevant.
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by Anonymous User on Tuesday January 01, @02:20AM EST (#9)
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I'd like to know the name of the of vendor.
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> C'mon, lighten up a bit!
This sound like the kind of thing said to black people who didn't want to be the butt of jokes about 30/40 years ago. The point about these so called jokes is that they are not funny. Suppose I said "Eskimos are brainless, "Eskimos are aliens" "I hurt Eskimos"; really has you rolling on the floor, right? No? The only reason that anyone finds them funny is that they target a hated group, namely boys. Fair too many boys are being taught to accept themselves as the natural butt of jokes. For comparison, have a look at some of the stuff on Aryan sites. Their attempts to attack black people, Jews and Mexicans with humour falls decidedly flat on its face and demonstrates only their hatred. These stickers demonstrate only a hatred for boys, not a mild mockery.
> I am a staunch defender of free speech and against censorship.
Please explain what you've done for free speech.
> As an activist, I do not hesitate to take action when I feel it is warranted.
What action have you taken? I'd be interested to hear what activism you've undertaken, and what you think warrants what action. I don't think telling men to lighten up is helpful, unless you've got a banner that men will flock to and an action plan that is effective. In the meantime, different men have different priorities and telling men to stop doesn't help anyone unless you've got a much better plan and I don't mean a plan like the ones where some men say men should campaign only my way and only for the things I consider issues. All issues that affect one man ultimately affect all men. If we want to move forward in 2002, then I suggest that all men support all other men and applaud their actions.
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The phrase "iighten up" is usually patronizing. Most of the comments were unsupported opinions--I couldn't find any substantive, cogent argument for choosing one form of activism over another. A vague suggestion to see the forrest for the trees isn't specific enough to be helpful (while I'm at it, neither is the suggestion to choose one's battles without some discussion of what ought to go into that choice).
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Actually, I feel you would be right in this sentiment bacasper IF there had been stickers for young boys saying "girls are yucky" etc.
However, since there weren't anti-girl stickers in the vending machines and you imply in your post that there are stickers saying negative things about little girls around, someone deliberately made the decision to not include the anti-little girl stickers in the machines. I feel this person must have made this decision with deliberate malice. The sound unbiased business decision would be to include stickers that would appeal to girls and boys to cover both adolescent markets.
These stickers were obviously aimed at pre or early pubertal children who nature has instilled in their value systems a natural repugnance to the opposite gender to protect them from the natural urge to procreate too early.
Of course we all know that the little boy who once said "all girls stink" and the little girl who once said "all boys are yucky" soon become very interested in the opposite sex around 15 or so and significantly revise and ameliorate their earlier critique of the opposite sex and life goes on.
Finally, after reading "Who Stole Feminism," I have to state that I have found an exception to this natural rule in aging mid life "gender feminists" who infest our education systems. They obviously did not grow out of the infantile "all boys are yucky!" pre adolescent fixation. They are quite retarded in this area.
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by Anonymous User on Tuesday January 01, @10:07PM EST (#20)
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Around 15 or so?!
Luek, I remember my interest starting around the age of 13. Obviously your mailage may vary. :)
Remo
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On the one hand it is encouraging to read that Ames is sensitive to the situation about the vending machines with the offensive stickers.
Their representative says that the company has requested from the contractor that owns the machines that the offending stickers be removed and has reason to believe this will be done within the next week.
However, on the other hand the Ames company could have removed the machines and stored them away until the contractor removes the misandric product. Ames, as all businesses that contract to have such things as gumball machines, newspaper dispensers etc. on their property can remove them if they pose a hazard or problem which these machines obviously are causing.
So, as they used to say during the Reagan era with regard to Peristroka; "Trust but always verify fully."
The poster who lives near the Ames store that has these machines and first brought this outrage to our attention would perform a most valuable service if he or she would monitor that the offending stickers have indeed been removed as promised by the Ames representative.
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by Anonymous User on Tuesday January 01, @11:21AM EST (#13)
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Thanks to everyone who helped in this effort to stop the spread of misandry! Really, thank you very much. It's a small victory, but still a win against a culture that has increasingly become anti-male.
Every single sticker in the vending machine that was offensive specifically targeted "boys" It was a very sad display to see anti-boy stickers right next to American flags. Regardless of one's opinion about 'freedom of speech" (which I firmly believe in) these stickers are nothing short of hatred and reflect the hypocritical nature of political correctness and "left think" i.e. it is OK to bash males, and no one else.
I was the one who noticed the stickers and sent in the picture and statement.
Thanks again, I will check up on the removal of this hate, and will try to locate the company that stocks the machines as well.
THANKS, IT IS NICE TO SEE SOME CHANGE PUT INTO EFFECT!
Ched
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Thanks again, I will check up on the removal of this hate, and will try to locate the company that stocks the machines as well.
Hey, Ched. Information about the owner of the vending machines should be found somewhere on the machines themselves. Look for a sticker on the side or back of them.
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Thank YOU Ched for being so diligent in this situation.
It is a great idea to get the information about the vending machine company that actually is the culprit in spreading this misandric hate.
I am sure that these same hate stickers are unfortunately in other locations and not just the AMES department stores.
PS: Have you thought about contacting your local news media and tip them off about this story? It would be an even sweeter victory if more people were made aware of the corporate toxic misandry aimed at their sons.
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In response to bacasper at post #2, I do think that this whole misandry thing has gotten THIS far simply because men are so much more willing to laugh at themselves. Women were the ones who becaame so sensitive about the way they are portrayed in the media, both in advertising and in program content. Men have been laughing it off for decades. The problem is that, now, it's becoming an institutionalized campaign to devalue men and masculinity. Silly stickers are just a small part of it, but remember, the feminists would not put up for a second with stickers that said that boys were smarter or that boys "recycle" girls. Even if we choose to ignore this, the intermediate outcome is that there are a variety of anti-male messages but zero anti-female messages to offer apparent balance. The extended outcome of this is that sociaety appears to value men less than women. This is NOT a message that leads to men making a valuable contribution to their own lives or anyone elses. So, regardless of whether or not we a re willing to laugh this off, the messages visible in the media and in society in general must be balanced. So we are forced to be sensitive to this misandry.
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I'd like to thank Ched and make sure everyone knows that he is the one that started this whole thing, brought it to our attention, and helped to rally us all. I'd also like to thank Ched for being patient with me, as it took several days from the time he first e-mailed me about the stickers to when it finally appeared on MANN.
Nice work, Ched, and thanks again!
Scott
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I just sent an e-mail to Stephanie Liebl thanking her for her efforts in this matter. I think it's important that we not only make complaints when we see injustice, but we also need to show our appreciation when someone takes steps to right a wrong.
Additionally, if you have an Ames store in your area, another way you can show your support is by making purchases! When a company shows they care for the public, the public can show its appreciation by buying from that company. We as consumers have the power to hurt or help a company. Let's show our appreciation to Ames by buying from them! It's good for them, and it's good for the economy.
"This is John Galt speaking." -Atlas Shrugged
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