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I almost never watch television, but this may actually be worth seeing. It could well be another piece of evidence that our movement is truly having an effect.
Though we have a very, very long way to go, I really don't think there remains any doubt that the men's/egalitarian movement is now having a very strong influence. Note that the ad refers to the "the new standard holding women accountable for sexual attacks on men." Indeed it is a new standard, and one that is at this point far from universally enforced. But at least now, to some extent, it does exist.
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I almost never watch television, but this may actually be worth seeing. It could well be another piece of evidence that our movement is truly having an effect.
It's worth watching on several levels:
1) This issue has not yet been tackled as a dramatic teleplay on any network television show with the large audience of Law & Order and its spin-offs;
2) Whenever there are hints of portrayals in the media of male rape by women, the victim is either turned into a clown (ridiculed for being a victim) or he "deserved it," as was the case in a recent episode of HBO's Oz;
3) American television audiences may get a severe dose of reality of the inequality in the justuce system.The Law & Order shows are known for the fact that the often portray justice as it might happen in real life. So we, as men's rights advocates, need to be sure we steel ourselves for the fact that the victim may lose in this fictional case. And if he does lose, it may be all the better because it will draw an arrow right to the heart of the hypocrisy of U.S. justice (holding men accountable, but not women, etc., etc.).
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Nightmist wrote: "The Law & Order shows are known for the fact that the often portray justice as it might happen in real life. So we, as men's rights advocates, need to be sure we steel ourselves for the fact that the victim may lose in this fictional case. And if he does lose, it may be all the better..."
I couldn't agree more, Nightmist. In fact, if they're going to portray this as it would *actually* happen in court, he pretty *has* to lose.
I hope he does lose. That might help create outrage among the viewers.
I'm not completely confident they'll do it that way, though. I suspect they'll have 'justice' prevail, and the guy win, and leave viewers with the impression that the courts are actually "fair to everyone, including men, so what are these wacho mens-rights loonies all about?"
Sorry. It's been a pessimistic day. Maybe I'm being unfair. Let's see what they do.
Ragtime
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"I'm not completely confident they'll do it that
way, though. I suspect they'll have 'justice'
prevail, and the guy win, and leave viewers
with the impression that the courts are actually
"fair to everyone, including men, so what are
these wacho mens-rights loonies all about?""
I just finished watching it, and I am quite satisfied. They did a good job in showing the bias in the justice system. I loved the way the rapist lawyer got nabbed in front of the cameras for the murder of Sydney Green, despite the fact that she got away with the rape.
He will never be the same. He will never change.
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by Anonymous User on Friday December 14, @11:24PM EST (#6)
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I watched it too.
Enjoyed it - but I admit to being very conflicted. Rape of females is hard enough to prove-- esp since the law doesn't require evidence of a struggle, and as was pointed out, the bodies' reactions to it are meaningless. And with a man - well, I don't believe there was any way in the world they could have proven rape against any of the three women had he not been admittedly drugged or restrained in some manner.
The expansion of the definition of "rape" hasn't made things any easier. Besides being problematical from the point of view of criminal forensics, it also brings the legal system into many murky areas of human sexuality and desire. After all, not all unenjoyable sex is rape.
Then there is the old bromide of rape being only about power, and not sex. Thats the operating assumption in both our laws and criminological models despite its dubious authenticity. One could write a book exploring this question. And the funny thing is, its damned if you do, dammned if you don't. Rad fems : sex=rape=power. And that formula explains so much in our society.
Overall it was an enjoyable , if disturbing show. It was really easy to believe it was real, and I found myself caring for the characters.
Remo
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Overall it was an enjoyable , if disturbing show. It was really easy to believe it was real, and I found myself caring for the characters.
Indeed, and when the defendant-lawyer got the opportunity to cross-examine her own victim, I was ready to throw a brick at the television! I think the characters came off really well. The rapists were *not* portrayed as victims themselves (I suspected they might try that in order to "justify" their rape of him). In fact, the lawyer in particular seemed quite smug and villainous. Not often you see a female portrayed that way on television these days.
And, indeed, all the characters who were the most unsympathetic to the victim were white males. Again, I think whoever wrote that episode knows something about male victims of sexual assualt and the prejudices they face. It just hit too close to home on all the issues surrounding such a case.
Then again, Law & Order does base episodes on real-life incidents. Perhaps this was based on an actual case somewhere. I remember instances when male strippers have sued their clients because their clients took things too far. Unlike female strippers, male strippers don't have body guards to protect them from being mobbed and mauled.
I also must admit that when SVU first started airing, I thought "Special Victims Unit. It's about sexual crimes. OH, great. Here's another opportunity to paint all men as villains." I have to say that they've surprised me several times.
One more thing: I think it was important that the attorney, even when she offered her apology to the rape victim, didn't really seem upset that things didn't go her way. Likewise, when she and the defense attorney are walking off, they're already talking about the murder trial, treating it all as a game.
He may have won one victory against one of the defendants, he may have lost the other one, but, in the end, he was unable to raise awareness.
My favorite quote was from the judge: "Women are either equal to men or their not. Which is it?"
:)
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It was very interesting to watch. I too was suspcious of the show when I first heard about for the same reasons Nightmist mentioned. I do feel they did a good job though of potraying male victims of rape.
I serioiusly doubt though that any serious attention will be brought to bare on this problem.
As a side note for anyone who gets into a conversation with radical feminists about this topic here is the arguement I use:
Radical feminists usually use the "expanded" version of rape that includes in its definition "pressured into sex." I bring up the case that men often feel pressured into having sex by society or friends.
I also mention that part of the definition of rape means that you can say "no" to sex. Men are not allowed this option when sex is offered.
Maybe these ideas will widen the topic of male rape for more discussion.
Tony H
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I also mention that part of the definition of rape means that you can say "no" to sex. Men are not allowed this option when sex is offered.
I don't buy this for a nanosecond. I've said no to sex on more than one occasion. It was not particularly difficult to do, with the exception of an offer from a woman to whom I was very attracted and cared for a lot, but whom I thought was somewhat screwed up sexually. We had both been drinking when she came on to me. I told her that I didn't want to have sex with her unless we were both sober. She said that, in that case, we wouldn't have sex and I said, "Fine, then we won't have sex." That was a tough one.
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I also mention that part of the definition of rape means that you can say "no" to sex. Men are not allowed this option when sex is offered.
I've actually said "no" before, as well, and I have a pretty healthy libido. :)
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I also have said no to sex but my arguement is not that individuals cannt say "no" to sex but that there is social pressure to always say yes.
This is especially difficult for young males. I doubt that any of us that are aware of the current pressures on men in society would not combat this very basic but prevalent one. The arguement still stands though. If your a young male and a woman "comes on" to you in a bar it is very difficult to turn her down especially in front of men. This is really just the flip side of the madonna/whore complex.
Tony H
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Yes, he lost. And it was a good show that at least brought forward the idea that male rape is a possibility. I found it interesting that the only people sensitive to this possibility were women. The only male portrayed to somewhat understand the victims plight was an asian man. The white males were all portrayed as insensitive and defensive.
The show left one with the feeling that the guy got screwed by the courts, the system, the police, and women who were furious that this man was making a mockery of female rape victims.
Good show. Asked some good questions.
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I've been a fan of L&O for years, and one of the things I enjoy about it is its realism. Sometimes the bad guys get away, and sometimes innocent people get railroaded, just like in real life.
Those women were just *evil.* The viewer absolutely *hated* them. Very good casting, and very good acting. The guy who portrayed the victim was very good, too. He brought a range of complex emotions to life. The viewer cheered for him.
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There was an episode of Picket Fences a few years ago which had a similar theme. A man was tied down and raped by a woman, and initially, the police didn't believe him. If I remember correctly, he won in the end, but the woman received a sentence so light it was sad.
"This is John Galt speaking." -Atlas Shrugged
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There was an episode of Picket Fences a few years ago which had a similar theme. A man was tied down and raped by a woman, and initially, the police didn't believe him. If I remember correctly, he won in the end, but the woman received a sentence so light it was sad.
That's not really surprising for Picket Fences. I don't remember that episode, but I don't put it past that show. For those who never saw it, Picket Fences was created by the same man responsible for Ally McBeal. Picket Fences, however, was much less gynocentric. They also once showed a rear nude photo of Lauren Holly (back when she had red hair), which was a point in the show's favor for me. ;)
Anyway, every week something odd happened in this little town, and, somehow, it would end up in court (in front of crotchety old Judge Bone, incredibly well-played by Ray Walston).
Of course, that said, it means that the Picket Fences writers thought women sexually assaulting men was "odd."
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