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Mail addies,and phone #s are here, as well as an online form. Private companies may still accept snail mail.
T___
http://www.pactiv.com/pactivframe.asp?page=/cgi-bi n/mkpage2.pl?106&menu=/menu.asp?active=btn5
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Grrrrrrrrrr.
OK, folks. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm getting tired of re-typing my same arguments and bigot bashing messages to all these different companies over and over. I think it's high time we developed a form letter we can all download, copy, and then modify to suit our own needs. Anybody with me on this?
When I say "form" letter, I mean that we need to create a document which contains some basic, sane arguments about why this type of male bashing damages society. When we have those basic arguments laid out on a page, we can work our original complaints to individual companies around them.
I think this would be a good way to present ourselves logically to these morons, and, if we do it right, without the stigma of being an "angry white male."
Perhaps we should use this thread to post ideas for inclusion in this form letter, which I will from here on out refer to as a "template."
Ideas?
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Since I'm hard-pressed to think of anything new and bitingly articulate at the moment, how about if instead I give you free license to scour my 50+ archived commentaries (or polemics) at MANN and cull from them any really good "lines" and/or points which you feel would give a form letter pizzazz? :-)
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Disgusting ad. Your "form letter" idea sounds like a plan. That way maybe others could use it as a kind of draft outline if they want to write a complaint letter.
One suggestion is to include the point that the ad is insulting to the intelligence of women as well as bashing men. It really pitches itself to the lowest common denominator element in society.
I find this aspect to be a common trait in disgusting ads no matter who they are pitched to... they end up insulting the group they are ostensibly trying reach.
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Intriguing isn't it... Almost everytime we are confronted by discrimination/hate against men, feminists claim that women are also the victims.
This advertisement is against men, don't water down the form letter by claiming otherwise. People who imagine that anti-male hate-mongering and discrimination is anti-female can add their own statements to a form letter.
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This advertisement is against men, don't water down the form letter by claiming otherwise. People who imagine that anti-male hate-mongering and discrimination is anti-female can add their own statements to a form letter.
I actually tend to agree with Lorianne on this one, Thomas... for one reason: ad execs these days are more likely to consider pulling/changing an ad if they think women are being offended than they are if they think men are being offended.
I say mention that the ad is insulting to both sexes (it is, in fact, because there are many good women out there who don't trash their boyfriends/husbands) but because we are dealing with men's issues here, we should make sure the offense to men takes higher precedent in these letters.
Does that make sense?
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It might be useful to also contact their brand development and ad agencies to let them know that "trashing" their male customers is not a good idea.
Manufacturer:
Pactiv Corporation
1900 West Field Court
Lake Forest, IL 60045
1-888-828-2850
April 7, 2000 – Pactiv Corporation has selected Campbell Mithun as its agency to service integrated marketing communications needs and new product development for its Hefty Brand and other branded consumer products:
Campbell Mithun - Minneapolis
222 South Ninth Street
Minneapolis, Minnesota 55402
612-347-1000 phone
612-347-1515 fax
In late 1999, Pactiv announced that J. Walter Thompson (JWT), Chicago would become their advertising agency:
J. WALTER THOMPSON CHICAGO
900 North Michigan Avenue
Chicago, Illinois 60611 USA
Tel: 312-951-4000
Fax: 312-951-4610
Contact:
Brian Heffernan, President
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It might be useful to also contact their brand development and ad agencies to let them know that "trashing" their male customers is not a good idea.
Thanks, DaveW. It is a good idea that ad agencies know that their ads really aren't doing anything but pissing people off.
Of course, they may still not consider it important considering the complaintants are male.
I remember reading about male bashing advertising on some news site last year. The advertisers just "couldn't understand why men are getting so upset." The advertising companies major complaint was that "the times are too politically correct and white men are the only people we can pick on now."
Whatever.
Some folks have even taken more extreme measures of showing their displeasure to ad agencies, like mailing them doggie poo.
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Nightmist wrote: "ad execs these days are more likely to consider pulling/changing an ad if they think women are being offended...
"because we are dealing with men's issues here, we should make sure the offense to men takes higher precedent in these letters.
"Does that make sense?"
Only if it's truly the case that women are being offended. Often that's not the case, even though feminists claim that it is.
To see an example of this, consider the article linked to by, "A feminist blames feminism," posted 11/25. In that piece, the author states "Yes, girls may be achieving higher grades than boys, but what most really, really want is to be laid by gyrating boy bands." This is supposed to exemplify a failure of feminism. The insinuation is that girls are somehow suffering because they do far better than boys academically, but they often choose to have sex with boys in rock bands! Give me a break.
Yes, we may get better results at first, if we claim that women are offended, but we run the risk of distorting the facts. If only men are offended, then we should focus only on the real offense to men. Remember that this movement is growing and can't be ignored for much longer. (Note the results of the, admittedly unscientific, poll on this site -- "How long have you been active in the men's movement?" More than 1/3 have joined on in the last 6 months.)
Claiming that women are victims in cases where only men are victims is similar to claiming that women are heroes in cases where only men are heroes. We have to start making it clear just how horribly men and boys are treated and we distract from that by allowing spurious claims that women are also mistreated, even when that's not the case.
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OK, here's what I'm thinking of sending to the Hefty folks. I would REALLY APPRECIATE your input on it, everyone. I plan to send it in both an e-mail and snail mail version.
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Dear Sir or Madam:
This notice is to inform you that I will no longer be purchasing any products under the "Hefty" brand. I have come to this decision because of a recent advertising campaign intended to besmirch and degrade men to the level of women's garbage.
As a single man and the owner of my own home, I have always relied on Hefty products, but from now on I will be purchasing my garbage bags and other plastics products from your biggest competitor. I also intend to request that my local Wal-Mart and Food Lion (where I do my shopping for these items) refrain from stocking your product, so that other men who have not seen your idea are not unwittingly supporting the idea that they are nothing but garbage.
The advertisement to which I am referring is a television ad campaign in which a woman compares having Hefty trash bags to having a "big strong man" around the house, which she can then trash when she's done with "him." As a man, this advertisement is insulting on a variety of levels:
1. It paints a picture of men as soulless, lifeless "tools," good for nothing but exploitation by women;
2. It encourages women to think of men as "garbage" and not people; garbage which can be tossed out and trampled upon without second thought to our humanity;
3. Together with other male bashing ads by other companies and advertising agencies, your ad further polarizes men and women against each other, and fosters greater resentment between the sexes.
In another way, this particular advertisement insults women because it paints all women as heartless and evil people who are simply looking for someone on whom to take pleasure by destruction.
In this day and age when fewer men are choosing to marry out of fear of divorce and the destruction of their lives, and more and more women are become violent and murderous toward their husbands, boyfriends, and male children, your ad is an unwelcome instigator.
Considering the above, I implore you to take the following action:
1. Remove the offending advertisement and all others like it from the airwaves;
2. Fire your ad agency and marketing people, and demand your money back from the amazing display of social incompetence that created this offensive piece;
3. Reply to my message so that I know you received it and are taking this matter seriously.
I am forwarding this complaint to everyone I can find who may be affiliated with this particular advertisment. I am also posting it to several locations on the Internet which support men's interests, so that others may see my outrage and duplicate my action against it.
I also hope that you do understand my reasons for behaving this way against your company. I have nothing personal against you, nor do I have any complaints about your product. I am simply tired of and frustrated with fighting to prove myself a human being in women's minds every day. Advertisements like yours make that struggle all the more difficult, and make my life all the less worth living.
Thank you for your time and attention to this matter.
Respectfully,
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Fantastic letter, Nightmist. I've made a few changes, but they amount only to style and, therefore, should be taken with at most a grain of salt. Here's my modified version with my comments in capital letters and parentheses.
Dear Sir or Madam:
This notice is to inform you that I will no longer be purchasing any products under the "Hefty" brand. I have come to this decision because of a recent advertising campaign intended to besmirch and degrade men to the level of women's garbage.
As a single man and the owner of my own home, I have always (OFTEN) relied on Hefty products, but from now on I will be purchasing my garbage bags and other plastics products from your (I WOULD DROP “BIGGEST OR BE SPECIFIC) biggest competitor(S). I also intend to request that my local Wal-Mart and Food Lion (where I do my shopping for these items) refrain from stocking your product, so that other men who have not seen your (ADVERTISEMENT) idea are not unwittingly supporting the idea that they are nothing but garbage (TRASH – “GARBAGE” USED ABOVE).
The advertisement to which I am referring is a television ad campaign in which a woman compares having Hefty trash bags to having a "big strong man" around the house, which she can then trash when she's done with "him." As a man, this advertisement is insulting on a variety of levels:
1. It paints a picture of men as soulless, lifeless "tools," good for nothing but exploitation by women; (I’D USE PERIODS RATHER THAN SEMICOLONS)
2. It encourages women to think of men as "garbage" and not people; garbage which can be tossed out and trampled upon without second thought to our humanity;
3. Together with other male bashing ads by other companies and advertising agencies, your ad further polarizes men and women against each other, and fosters greater resentment between the sexes.
In another way, this particular advertisement insults women because it paints all women as heartless and evil people who are simply looking for someone on whom to take pleasure by destruction.
In this day and age when fewer men are choosing to marry out of fear of divorce and the destruction of their lives, and more and more women are become violent and murderous toward their husbands, boyfriends, and male children, your ad is an unwelcome instigator.
Considering the above, I implore you to take the following action:
1. Remove the offending advertisement and all others like it from the airwaves;
2. Fire your ad agency and marketing people, and demand your money back from the (INCOMPETENTS WHO CREATED THIS OFFENSIVE PIECE) amazing display of social incompetence that created this offensive piece;
3. Reply to my message so that I know you received it and are taking this matter seriously.
I am forwarding this complaint to everyone I can find who may be affiliated with this particular advertisEment (SPELLING OF "ADVERTISEMENT"). I am also posting it to several (SITES) locations on the Internet (THAT) which support men's interests, so that others may see my outrage and duplicate my action (I'D DROP "AGAINST IT." IT SOUNDS LIKE THEY'D DUPLICATE YOUR ACTION AGAINST YOUR OUTRAGE OR AGAINST YOUR COMPLAINT.)against it.
I also hope that you (I'D DROP "DO.") do understand my reasons for (TAKING THIS ACTION) behaving this way against your company. I have nothing personal against you, nor do I have any complaints about your product. I am simply tired of and frustrated with fighting to prove myself a human being in women's minds every day. Advertisements like yours make that struggle all the more difficult, and make my life all the less worth living.
Thank you for your time and attention to this matter.
Respectfully,
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Nightmist,
I think that you express your point of view very well in your draft letter, but I would write a different letter. I don't have time to write a full letter at the moment, but mine would run more along these lines:
Dear Sir or Madam,
I just learned of your incredibly offensive new Hefty Gripper television ad and I must say I'm disappointed. I've always considered Hefty products to be of excellent quality and I'm having trouble understanding why your company would run such a patently stupid and offensive ad for such a good product.
This ad compares your Hefty Gripper bag with a "big strong man" who can be used by women and, when they're finished with "him", thrown in the trash. As a man, I consider this ad to be a grievous insult.
What puzzles me is that such offensive advertising tactics are usually undertaken by companies with inferior products who are desperately scrabbling for market share and so want their ads to have "shock" value. I don't understand why—just two months after firemen and policmen died trying to save the victims of terrorist attacks, and at the same time as our military personnel (most of whom are men) are putting their lives on the line trying to put an end to terrorism—your company would be running an ad comparing men to trash bags. Unless, of course, you have a particularly clueless and skilless ad agency.
A better advertising agency would have come up with a TV spot that would have shown how strong and dependable Hefty Gripper trash bags are without insulting half the population, particularly now that men are experiencing something of a resurgence in popularity. I suggest that you fire your current ad people and hire some others who can be clever without being insulting... and who watch the news and so know what's going on outside their offices.
[As an end note, I notice that Pactiv's head offices in Canada are in Scarborough. That has been known to cause brain damage... :-)]
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What puzzles me is that such offensive advertising tactics are usually undertaken by companies with inferior products who are desperately scrabbling for market share and so want their ads to have "shock" value. I don't understand why—just two months after firemen and policmen died trying to save the victims of terrorist attacks, and at the same time as our military personnel (most of whom are men) are putting their lives on the line trying to put an end to terrorism—your company would be running an ad comparing men to trash bags. Unless, of course, you have a particularly clueless and skilless ad agency.
Very good points, and I think I'm going to incorporate them into my letter, if you don't mind, BusterB. :)
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Damn good one, too, BusterB. I think it will be good to have these on hand and rewrite our own form letters to suit our own styles. Do we have both your permission to copy from these as we see fit?
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...when fewer men are choosing to marry out of fear of divorce and the destruction of their lives, and more and more women are become violent and murderous toward their husbands, boyfriends, and male children, your ad is an unwelcome instigator.
Excellent point to throw in, Thomas. I suspect that most of the deliberate male-bashing in the media is done in the name of social progressivism. The "creative minds" who come up with this drivel believe that they are taking a stand in favor of a low-esteemed, socially downtrodden class (women) in favor of an overrated, power-corrupted oppressor class (men) who need to be taken down a few notches.
This is also why I don't agree that the ad paints women as evil. Those old Warner Bros. cartoons showed Tweety doing a lot of horrible things to Sylvester - but we always understood that the canary was justified in doing so.
Also, too - far from insulting women's intelligence, the ad actually takes for granted that most women are smart enough to know that you don't literally throw men out with the trash, and this is not a legally sound endorsement of that.
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Damn good one, too, BusterB. I think it will be good to have these on hand and rewrite our own form letters to suit our own styles. Do we have both your permission to copy from these as we see fit?
Yep. Copy away.
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1. It paints a picture of men as soulless, lifeless "tools," good for nothing but exploitation by women; (I’D USE PERIODS RATHER THAN SEMICOLONS)
Actually, though, semicolons are the gramatically preferred method of listing items in a series. :)
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Hawth: Thanks for the recognition, but that point was actually contained in Nightmist's original copy, so he's the one to credit.
BusterB: Is it okay with you if people copy parts or all of your letter verbatim?
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Maybe I missed something here, but this all seems to be based on hearsay about an advertisement. Has anyone here actually seen the ad? If not, we should be very cautious about taking action against Hefty. If the rumor isn't true, we would be wrongly attacking a company. In addition, if we don't make sure about this sort of thing before taking action, we could be easily set up by feminists who could start a rumor and then discredit us by pointing out that we attacked an innocent company.
So, again, has anyone here seen this ad?
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So, again, has anyone here seen this ad?
Better yet, can someone find out when it will be airing again? Usually, the marketing departments of companies like that will have a schedule of the times and stations on which their ads are airing.
Anyone feel like calling Hefty marketing today? I would, but I'm not in a good mood to be reasonable with them about it.
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disclaimer:
Thanks. I'm glad someone here saw it.
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Yes, it is real, and just as disgusting as everyone has been saying. I AM going to copy the letters and addresses, and work on contacting these people myself.
If this is all that stops people from reacting, whether or not it is real, let me assure everyone who hasn't seen it.
IT IS REAL.
Thanks to all who posted the letters and addresses.Most mendo not want to just sit there and be bashed, but they do not know what to do in terms of a constructive reaction to the Hefty ads; I have wondered myself how to respond to this, I just did not know how.
fritzc77
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Nightmist,
This is a really good professionally dont letter!
I am impressed.
However, how about using the word, MISANDRY or the adjective MISANDROUS more instead of male-bashing.
The idea is that the more a word that decribes a negative is used, like "racist" or "bigot" becomes a code word that makes the point without using excessive explanations to make a point.
When the general public becomes wary of becoming known as a MISANDROUS BIGOT then the man's rights movement will be a "Real Deal."
Again, a great letter! Good work!
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I second the motion. Copy away.
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by Anonymous User on Saturday December 01, @01:49AM EST (#27)
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Disagree. This ad is also anti-women. It portrays women as conniving bitches and makes it look like we don't love our husbands, fathers, brothers and sons.
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Hi, Luek. Thanks for the comments.
When the general public becomes wary of becoming known as a MISANDROUS BIGOT then the man's rights movement will be a "Real Deal."
The reason I don't use some form of the word "misandry" in my letter is because, more than likely, I would be required to define it for them. Unfortunately, I think that would distract from the effect. Perhaps if there's a follow-up letter or e-mail, I will use and define the term, so the people at Hefty can begin to become familiar with it.
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I agree that the ad is anti-woman as well as anti-man, but I have political reasons for ignoring that fact in my draft of the letter.
For all of my life I have heard every issue that I can remember framed with respect to its impact on women. Even the "men's movement" (which is really a bunch of different movements) has taken to saying that men's issues affect women and children too... because they know that they won't get any sympathy if they simply say that something hurts men.
Of course I want to stop male-bashing, but I also want to start people thinking that men are people too, and that for a problem to be of consequence one needn't demostrate how it affects women and children.
Naturally, if you're a woman I would expect to write your objections to ads like this and their impact on women, and I have no problem with that. Just the same, I understand some of the objections raised by the men here about taking that tack themselves.
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Yes, I have seen this ad and I found it to be offensive (and rather stupid too).
Steve
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