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Roderic Beaujot (Population Studies Centre, University of Western Ontario. Discussion Paper no. 01-5, April 2001, ISSN 1183-7284)tells on page 7: "In the Statistics Canada report on the 1992 survey, Frederick (1995:27-28) observes that ... In this age group [25-44] a husband with a spouse who is not employed spend more hours (3.1) in unpaid work than a husband whose spouse is employed part time (2.8 hours) or full time (2.8 hours)" URL: http://www.ssc.uwo.ca/sociology/popstudies/dp/dp01 -5.pdf
Could the explanation be that when both husband and wife are employed, paid help may be used to do the housework and child minding? This is yet further proof that men, indeed, do more than their fare share of the household duties. If there is no paid help, the husband ends up with the major share of the work, which in this case is truly unpaid, as he most likely is also the one who works longer hours in paid employment, also documented by Statistics Canada, besides making a greater financial contribution to the family.
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"she counsels readers to look at the 'bright lights shining in the night skyline' and see that they 'represent thousands of women...who clean the corporate suites.'"
Fair enough," (from article)
Janitor: Women 21% Men 79%
http://www.genderequity.org/book/lesson11.html
It would not surprise me if the number of NIGHT
janitors were even more disproportionally male.
For further reading on female "oppression" and
male "privlege":
http://members.garbersoft.net/~spartacus/dingwall. htm
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Damn, Spartacus--I'm just never radical enough for you, am I?
Actually, I wondered about the janitor male/female ratio too, particularly at night, but I chose not to fight that batle at that moment. You do have a good point, though.--GSacks
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by Anonymous User on Thursday November 08, @02:14AM EST (#4)
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Of course there would be many more males working as night janitors. Ever heard of rape and sexual assault ,creep? Who commits these crimes against women, creep? Women don't have the freedom to go out at night on their own. As for the BS article - Why is a whopping 20% of men, who have a job and able to see their children NOT paying child support payments? Oh by the way, maybe some of you "men" might like to take up the jobs of caring for disabled/sick partners and relatives.
I'm getting pretty darn sick of looking after my mentally ill partner. I haven't met many men willing to look after sick family members. Must be like cleaning the toilet I guess.
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by Anonymous User on Thursday November 08, @02:20AM EST (#5)
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Whoops, on second thoughts, maybe it's not such a good idea for men to be looking after disabled or mentally ill women. Afterall, these women are even more vulnerable to sexual assault by men.
I have it on very good authority that even female corpses are not even safe from sexual assault by men.
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Would you discuss with someone that calls you a creep? If not GET THE H*** OUT OF HERE! You have no place calling other people (that you do not know) names. It really just show how imature and non caring you are. Should you want to discuss, talk in a civil and polite tone and you will get a civil and polite answer. Until you do, I bid you good day.
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I think somebody's got lost on their way to the NOW website.
The point being made on the subject of office cleaners is that the book encourages women to look at the bright lights or corporate America and see in them the oppression of women. The purpose of this is to encourage resentment towards men and male achievement. All feminist attitudes towards men are systematically negative, and resentment and hatred are the primary emotions that feminist attitudes and ideas provoke towards men. As has been pointed out, however, the bright lights of corporate America do not represent women cleaning offices but rather men doing so. My dad was a janitor, by the way. Men are real people who do real and ordinary things, we're not the phantasmogorical archetypes you read about in the kind of book that blathers on about 'patriarchy'.
As for women being in danger at night or at any other time, the fear is vastly out of proportion with the reality. The purpose of the fear - like the office cleaner thing - is to encourage negative attitudes and emotions towards men. Men are the majority victims of violence in our society, not women. And before you say it, yes, most of that violence comes from other men. In the feminist mind this allows such violence to be virtually ignored because it is men hurting 'their own kind'. This idea of 'kind' underpins the notion of a hate-crime. However, if another man is violent towards me he is most definitely NOT my 'kind', and the imposition of the idea of a 'kind' harms me by corrupting the perception of what has happened. Feminism relies on that kind of corruption of perception, which is why you, Anonymous User, have missed the point of both Glenn Sacks' article and the comments made about it. You're the kind of person who, if some terrible accident happened in which a hundred men and three women were killed, would think "How terrible! Three women were killed."
As for having sex with corpses; what can I say? We all have our needs.
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ah, insults. the perfect indicator that there is want for a legitimate discussion of the issues at hand.
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Thanks for the laugh! You have provided a classic feminist debate example.
1. your logic is a non sequitur. It does not really follow the contention that feminist studies textbooks are full of Ms-information. In classic feminist form you have provided an account of subjective opinions.
Like your comment about "women don't have freedom to go out at night?" Where do you live? In my city (Boston) one can easily observe this to be blatantly false.
2. Your Ad hominem "creep" references reflect your subjective prejudices towards men rather than offering credibility to your weakly supported contention.
3. You then attempt to appeal to emotions of the reader here with your "poor me" I have to look after a mentally ill partner (which no one here can prove to be true or not) . By subjectivising your basic contention that men will not take care of their partner if she happens to get sick - you are supporting a fundamental feminist goal, that being gender apartheid by lowering the status of men, through the use of unjust and untrue means (i.e. the feminist textbook).
I would like to add my own experience in this area - my grandfather took care of my grandmother for over 10 years when she fell ill...
4. The only toilet that needs a good cleaning around here is your head.
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Heh heh heh. It's interesting that you don't bother to post any links or references to this "good authority" of yours.
Oh, and by the way, women (and men) are vulnerable to sexual by other women, too. Isn't that interesting?
Or were you under the impression that only men are predators and only women are victims?
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by Anonymous User on Thursday November 08, @10:51AM EST (#11)
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"What about the 20% of males who have jobs and don't pay their support?" Good question. And since the latest census report says men are better at paying their court ordered child support than women are, the question becomes, "what about the *women* who have jobs and don't pay their support?"
Maybe the women have a good reason for not paying. After all, they often can only get to the mailboxes at night. And that's when the creeps come out.
Of course, the whole "can't come out at night" argument totally missed the point being made. Someone responded to the feminist argument about how women are the ones cleaning the suites at night by pointing out that most of the janitors are men. The reason why they are mostly men is beside the point. But even then, I don't buy the argument that it mostly men because the women are afraid of rape at night, because men make the majority of day janitors as well.
Marc
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Dear Angry Feminist:
No need to call names nor to go away--feel free to stay and debate!
In answer to your question about "only 80% paying" what I said was that 80% pay in full. Actually, only 5% don't pay at all. Since child support payments have reached meteoric proportions, and the divorced fathers referred to are merely employed but do not necessarily make much money, it's not suprising that some can't pay their child support in full.
If you're interested in more on the subject, please see my article "How to Bring Back Our Fathers" which ran in the Salt Lake City Tribune (6/17/01) and the Los Angeles Daily News (6/17/01)on Father's Day. You can see the article at my website at ://www.glennjsacks.com/how_to_bring.htm.
Feel free to continue the debate.
Best Wishes,
Glenn Sacks
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Well, I'll be darned, a radical has appeared.
Only 5% of divoced men willingly avoid Child Support. The overwhelming majority that don't pay or don't pay all their court ordered support simply can't.
Any father that can't pay should still have full access to his children, in fact, if the father has a 50/50 shared parenting (which should be automatic) then he should not be paying any support because he is supporting the children during his time with them.
Women take convienent jobs because they choose to, not because it's unsafe. Go to any all night restraunt and see all the waitresses (Female Waiters) working the 'graveyard shift'. Women are shying away from hard and dangerous jobs by choice, not out of fear.
Lets not get into the issue of mental illness because it's well known that women suffer from mental disorders at four times the rate of men.
The medical and care industries are dominated by females. These jobs pay more than many male dominated fields.
Now for your unwarranted fear of being dead around men, I must remind you that sexual disfuntion is a mental illness. As stated above, sufered more by women and therefore I believe it's more likely a female would take advantage of a corpes than a man. This could be why more undertakers are men.
You grossly overgeneralize men which is very typical of those that dispise us, but thanks for dropping by, I needed a reminder of just why men need to speak up against these obvious negative stereotypes.
Dan Curry
DanCurry.Com
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by Anonymous User on Thursday November 08, @05:39PM EST (#14)
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Genderequity.org is a feminist website, sponsored by NOW. Why do you deem any statistics from a feminist website as believable?
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*chuckles*
i saw something quite amusing. take a ride over to genderequality.org. what's the first thing you see? that's right, 9 pictures of women and 0 of men.
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by Anonymous User on Thursday November 08, @06:28PM EST (#16)
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From what I saw, the site aims to encourage women to enter occupations that are currently male-dominated. From the POV of the poster complaining that there aren't enough women janitors, I'd think this would be a good thing, though it's beyond me why any decent parent would encourage their kid to aspire to a career as a janitor. Why would you want your kid spending their life living hand-to-mouth, paycheck to paycheck, with no benefits, no health insurance, always struggling to pay even the smallest bills?
But that's beside the point.
Generally, guys in the men's movement discount all statistics from feminist sources as biased, faulty, even fraudulent. Why then did the other poster post that janitor statistic, taken from a feminist source, and proclaim it gospel truth? I thought all feminist statistics were biased. Why then is that one true? Because the guy who posted it likes it?
I don't know if it's true or not. I'm just wondering. I'm also hoping that the majority of parents today aren't truly encouraging their sons and daughters to become minimum-wage janitors in order to achieve and maintain a gender balance in this occupation.
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I worked as a night cleaner when I was in college.
Most of us were male. We did work with some females, but they didn't hate us. And they worked just as hard as we did, and they still didn't hate us. All this hatred and envy is the true myth.
Please read and sign a petition at
http://jmhays37.tripod.com/strip/s.html
John Hays
http://johnhays.net
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by Anonymous User on Thursday November 08, @08:37PM EST (#18)
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You ask, "who commits crimes of rape and sexual assault against women?" Black men are the primary perpetrators. Were you trying to make a point (without being both sexist and racist)?
You ask why 20% of noncustodial fathers with jobs and access to their children fail to pay child support. Good question. Since noncustodial mothers are more likely to fail on their child support obligations, why don't you ask them.
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It is interesting that "Gender Equity" thinks it is being "equitable" by offering career guidance for aspiring girls from professional engineers, and for boys they offer a guy that landed a job as a receptionist who is learning how to use a computer!
where is the gender equity???
feminism=sexism
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by Anonymous User on Friday November 09, @01:30PM EST (#20)
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There are men out there who say that receptionist guy is better off, because unlike a firefighter, that job is "safe."
I think it's pathetic that anyone would encourage their kid to grow up to be a $6/hour receptionist. Even if you live by yourself your entire life, you cannot support yourself on receptionist wages.
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by Anonymous User on Friday November 09, @02:14PM EST (#21)
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from a feminist perspective, gender equity means anything that supports
the aspirations of girls and discourages boys. From a basic mentoring
perspective, who would encourage someone to strive for excellence
by getting a receptionist position? not that there is anything wrong with
this career choice, but it isn't something that one prepares for in college.
yet this is what the gender equity website is doing. completely insane.
does the gender equity people survive on public funding?????? if so, then
i think that there is serious discrimination going on.
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