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Australia seems to be waking up to prevention of male suicide while the other countries in which it is alarmingly high (the U.S.) still almost completely ignore the problem. Even some folks on this site have described depression to the point of suicide as "female," although we've posted at least a dozen stories to the contrary over the past few months.
When I was a police reporter in 1997, one of my last stories prior to taking my current job broke two hours to deadline on a production day (the day the paper goes to press). I was half-listening to the police scanner on my desk while typing some entries for our "police blotter" section (standard stuff... somebody flashed somebody in public, somebody stole some real estate signs).
In the midst of my clickety-clack on the keyboard, I heard two brief sentences uttered across the airwaves: "He's on the Square. He's got a gun to his head."
My office was two blocks from Public Square. I jumped up from my desk, grabbed my pen and notebook and dashed out the door. Just as I turned the corner onto Public Square, I saw about 15 police officers surrounding an obviously distraught man on the Square. One officer was attempting to talk him into dropping his weapon. All I could focus my eyes on after that was this man's face. I took two steps forward when he put the gun in his mouth and squeezed the trigger.
Through later interviews with the police and witnesses, I learned that the man had been in family court all day. Through civil court records, I learned that he had been in the middle of a very nasty divorce and, on top of that, had just lost his job. Someone later mentioned to me that he may have also been getting treatment for depression, although we never published that (couldn't confirm it).
Depression and suicide are very real problems for men, but few men also really know how to seek help. Helplessness, indeed, is the most common feeling among men contemplating ending their lives. I think this Australian effort has the right idea by seeking to fix some of the life situations that result in men committing suicide.
Sometimes I think about that man on Public Square, and I think about the expression on his face. When he put the gun in his mouth, it changed. What had been a furrowed brow smoothed out. What had been angry and sorrowful eyes looked peaceful. He'd made his decision, and I think that's why many men seek this solution. It's a decision they know they can make. It's their way of regaining control over their own lives--regaining control from a society and a justice system which does all it can to wrestle their happiness away from them.
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I think a major reason why society continues to deny or downplay male depression and suicide comes from not understanding what the average man could be so depressed or suicidal about. I think a lot people would look at the man whom Nightmist described and think, "Well, he must have been exceptionally close to his kids." Or, "He must have had an exceptionally rough life." 'Exceptional' is the key word here. Otherwise, people are inclined to believe that men get a perfect deal, based on the "truth" behind most of the negative stereotypes about us.
The main stereotype is that we don't "connect" with kids or much care about them; that opens the door for a lot of discrimination, as we've seen. Another stereotype is that men are basically wrestled into marriage and don't enjoy monogamy, therefore divorce is our pleasure much more so than women's. Other stereotypes that hurt us are that we are hard-wired to enjoy going to work (and spending most of our days there), and that men have an easy time finding work, and that any paid, outside-the-home work is always fulfilling and "self-actualizing". In other words, men's "raw deal" suits us just fine; we wouldn't be happy without it.
Yet that's no different from justifying women's former lack of freedoms on the grounds that women are less intelligent, less independant, less ambitious and creative, and less sexual. The women's movement forced us to rethink those old ideas and, ultimately, have the epiphany that if women actually are as smart, independant, ambitious, creative and sexual as men, then there are no words to describe just how horrible their abuse throughout history has been - since their social role allowed for none of these qualities. In other words, we were compelled by the possibility that women were "masculine" beneath their feminine veneers and deserved to be given a chance.
There is a faction of feminism that wants to make men more feminine. Although they are essentially wrong in their thinking, I find this group of feminists to be (and my tongue is in my cheek, here) among the kindest and most compassionate for having that stance. No, I'm not of the thinking that gender is a social construct. I believe that men and women are naturally different in terms of behavior, and "masculinity" and "femininity" can aptly be defined as whatever each sex's respective behavioral differences are from the opposite sex. But, just because we behave differently doesn't mean we have different emotional needs, or that one sex is more emotionally equipped to deal with certain forms of punishment than the other sex is.
The only way men will get any justice - in any social matter, not just divorce and child custody - is if society begins to allow that, if women are more "masculine" than was thought, perhaps men are more "feminine" than was thought. And if it's true that men are actually not much different from women in terms of how we think and feel, then then there are no words to describe just how horrible our abuse throughout history (and continuing today) has been, either. Imagine for a second (and yes, I'm exaggerating for effect here - but hear me out) that a man is just a woman with a bigger, hairier body. Imagine that for just one second and see if it doesn't stop you in your tracks. Yes, it's an exaggeration, but just how much of an exaggeration? And if there's any kernel of truth to the assertion, then it would put all of men's "privileges" in a much different light, wouldn't it?
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The restrictions and privileges placed or granted on a person by society are founded up expectations of a person. Their gender role plays quite a bit into that.
Saying that a man may be just a woman with a bigger, harier body is really like saying "imagine that a man is human too, and motivated by the same needs."
It's odd to consider this a fundamental shift in thinking, but you are right to relate it to the feminist movement, which started out as "women are human too."
As for what abuse has been perpetrated...abused by whom? Scared people committing passionate defense against what they see as a threat. Ignorant people. Politically correct people who blindly accept definitions because they don't challenge anything.
But are we totally blameless?
How many of us here have been struck by a bout of PC-behavior? How many of us have judged and demonized groups (politicians and lawyers, anyone? Do you really think that every kid in law school is there thinking they'll make money?)?
Don't speak of "our abuse." We aren't blameless. You're fostering the wrong thinking. It doesn't matter what's being "done to us." What matters is solving the problem: law being used as a method of discrimination. Unequal expectations. Society not seeing a problem.
Speaking of our abuse puts this movement in the "whining victim" category. We point out what's being done in an effort to show where we want to go, and to open people's eyes, NOT to talk about "our abuse over the years."
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As for what abuse has been perpetrated...abused by whom? Scared people committing passionate defense against what they see as a threat. Ignorant people. Politically correct people who blindly accept definitions because they don't challenge anything.
Well, you're right to challenge my use of the term "abuse", since it's a loaded term and I'll admit it doesn't properly state my meaning. Suffice it to say, living up to the stereotype of what a "man" should be can be a terrific burden, as we've seen - if not necessarily an abuse.
I don't quite agree with your trivilizing of the "abusers" as being politically correct sheep. Keep in mind that society is standing by as these "blind", "ignorant" and "scared" sheep wreak havoc on men's rights. Thus, you could say that all of society is somehow responsible for mistreating men. And why are we colluding with it? Because perhaps we agree with the sheep and always have - for generations?
Speaking of our abuse puts this movement in the "whining victim" category. We point out what's being done in an effort to show where we want to go, and to open people's eyes, NOT to talk about "our abuse over the years."
One, I believe that the conditions of men's life in the past are very influential of what men are going through today - so it is relevant to evoke this. The traditional masculinity exemplified by our grandfathers is what fosters the stereotypes of male stoicism and sacrifice which allow today's society to stand by and, with emotional ease, watch men get mistreated. It's like a corrupted form of chivalry.
Also, I think we need to draw the distinction between victimology and compassion. Yes, I was leaning toward victimology with my inproper use of the word "abuse." However, to shed tears for the man who committed suicide after he lost his kids and his job is not victimology - it's compassion. And I think that that man represents a significant portion of the male population, if not all of us, to an extent.
This is getting back to the original subject of male depression and suicide being ignored. We ignore it because of a fundamental lack of compassion for men that prevents us from understanding how certain injustices can harm us emotionally.
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Well said, Hawth. I also would like to point out that complaining about an injustice should not be equated with "whining" and being "victimized." For how else do we draw attention to and take action against injustice but first file complaint that such injustice exists?
I'm not as familiar as others on this site with the works of Warren Farrell, but I believe I'm correct in saying that he advocates complaint against injustice. Someone please correct me if I am mistaken.
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Well, you're right to challenge my use of the term "abuse", since it's a loaded term and I'll admit it doesn't properly state my meaning. Suffice it to say, living up to the stereotype of what a "man" should be can be a terrific burden, as we've seen - if not necessarily an abuse
Unfortunate, is it not, that all of our terminology that we would use naturally to describe something has been coopted by the mainstream? Oh for the days when the PC used long terms instead of common everyday words. Ah well, that's another topic.
I don't quite agree with your trivilizing of the "abusers" as being politically correct sheep. Keep in mind that society is standing by as these "blind", "ignorant" and "scared" sheep wreak havoc on men's rights. Thus, you could say that all of society is somehow responsible for mistreating men. And why are we colluding with it? Because perhaps we agree with the sheep and always have - for generations?
I don't mean to trivialize them, merely by calling them frightened, or sheep (some are frightened, some are sheep, etc). Salem is not the only site where frightened sheep have shown their strength.
In a way, because they mean well, because they are sheep, society allows them to run unchecked. "They believe that being very very sad is a subtitute for being right." Similar situation.
You have a good point about "all of society is somehow responsible." Is it our duty as so-called activists to make people cognizant members of the debate (whether on our side or not)? At least then people choose a side, rather than saying they "read an odd bit in the newspaper."
It's like a corrupted form of chivalry.
Well said. We have somehow gained the responsibilities and stoicism of our grandfathers, without being allowed to earn the respect that they had.
[T]o shed tears for the man who committed suicide after he lost his kids and his job is not victimology - it's compassion
I apologize for not being clear. It's hard for me to speak about a subject with compassion and logic held in mind simultaneously. Personal fault. I empathise with the loss he suffered. I have compassion for his plight. It was an insult to his memory for me to construe that as victimology.
Instead, let me say that I would like to keep this man alive as an idea of the way things shouldn't be, but are. I do not want to see the pain these men go through trivialized by labeling them as victims, or portraying them as such, which I see happen in society. How often do we talk to friends or relatives about men like these, and they respond with "isn't that a shame." Thus making a victim. That bothers me, and I wished to make a point about it. I just so happened to have my electronic soapbox with me.
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In a way, because they mean well, because they are sheep, society allows them to run unchecked. "They believe that being very very sad is a subtitute for being right." Similar situation.
Seizing on that point - that's why I feel that compassion is so important to the men's movement. What we're up against is compassion - for women. It's like we've been given an ultimatum: "We're declaring war between the sexes; which sex are you going to sympathize with?" Well, obviously, most people choose women. But, if we felt equal compassion for men as for women, then feminists and other politically correct people could not use compassion as a weapon against men.
I agree with you, however, that "victim" is a negative term that ultimately trivializes - not humanizes - the person. But I guess I also get kind of snarly when people have that knee-jerk response of: "Don't start victimizing men!" because, again, it plays into that whole inequality of compassion that I was talking about - that we'll let women get away with it, but not men. What I mean is, we have a tendency to take the non-victimization of men to a damaging extreme as well.
Don't apologize for challenging my points, though. When I first started posting at men's forums, I was extremely tentative and careful about what I said because I felt like it was controversial (even at a men's forum!), so I would always make sure that everything I said could be backed up if challenged. Since then, I've gotten a lot more relaxed and easy about speaking my mind. And that's when you can get into trouble.
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