"Women Above the Law?" by Carey Roberts

...complain about the very ideology you support. Changing the name does not change the tree or the fruit it bears.

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*"the most outrageous aspect is the total and i mean TOTAL silence from women. hell, they could care less. makes me sick." ~ donnieboy57

Actually, his columns appear at: http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/roberts

They are repeated regularly at mensnewsdaily.com. This time it looks like ifeminists picked it up. Hmmm, why didn't they just include a link to Carey's site?

I recommend him -- I don't think he's written a bad column yet.

He's an outside poster whose article they snagged? Alright. I stand corrected, I thought he was one of the Ifeminazis trying to act like they believe in equality while still promoting preferential treatment of women through the belief in feminist ideology and the usage of the term FEMinist.

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*"the most outrageous aspect is the total and i mean TOTAL silence from women. hell, they could care less. makes me sick." ~ donnieboy57

(C.R.) - "I have reached the conclusion that modern-day feminism has become totalitarian in its ideology, tactics, and objectives."

If you want to spend the waning daylight of this glorious Father's Day doing something meaningful, read his columns -- every one.

I do not always agree with every single one of his views, but this man is wise and honest and fearless.

What else can you ask?

..on the more serious cases. Intimacy of an adult with a 17 year old is perfectly legal in a lot, if not most countries, including mine (14+ here actually "if the relationship is not abusive", 16 in general). Just shows how ridiculously prude the US are. There's plenty of real cases with 10 or 12 year olds involved, why not mention these.

And there's nothing wrong with _early_ abortion. What's wrong is that the father doesn't even need to be notified, and that it's legal to have an abortion when the child is clearly already a thinking and feeling individual.
He's probably religious so it's all the same to him. For me, the next worst tendency in societies after feminism is religion.

n.j.,

Nothing personal....

But I would humbly suggest that the U.S. immediately redeploy from Iraq and invade the psychotic pedophile country you inhabit.

I would be happy to re-enlist just to dispatch you sick child molesters for good.

And as for you, it would be personal.

You are a sick, sick man.

I may be wrong. He/She seems to always comes in and say something totally off base that gives some kind of excuse for women's behavior.

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*"the most outrageous aspect is the total and i mean TOTAL silence from women. hell, they could care less. makes me sick." ~ donnieboy57

Hey bro' ---

In these days of the Patriot Act and 24 x 7 e-surveillance, I would recommend purging any and all references to sex with minors, pedophilia, and the like ....

words can put you on a very bad list today.

Evaporate this thread.

... could get you prosecuted!

..you already invaded us once, and once is enough.
14 year olds are not children anymore, they are juvenile. And they have nothing to do with "pedophilia", simply because they are not children. They can be parents themselves already.

I'm not sick at all, you are because you're basically saying your puritan customs are above nature. I guess nature is sick too for making humans reach maturity at around that age? Also, when have I ever said I support such relationships or would like to have one? This is an idiotic ad-hominem attack and indeed quite personal.

I have some doubts about 14 as an age of consent myself, but certainly not about 16. Prosecuting someone for sexual contact with a 17 year old is ludicrous. One year later, some of those "children" are killing people abroad. But I guess that's ok in your sick culture.

Sorry for the US-bashing but it had to be said.

n.j. --

It is good that we will never meet.

If that were to happen, your septum would be propelled into your brain in approximately 3 seconds.

Then, you would personally experience the ending of the Sopranos.

Nothing personal.

How in the f-ing world can you write to justify fucking children?

What makes you tick?

With about everything that you say to or about me, actually.
I haven't said anything to "excuse for women's behavior" and time after time you come up with these stupid attacks that are totally uncalled for. What the hell? You know what, you should get professional help.

You have successfully established yourself as a symbol for American stupidity.
I'll spell it out for you again though: 14 and 16 year olds are not children, they are _juveniles_. At least according to our laws, made by people who according to you all have to have their brains propelled yadda yadda blah.

edit: age of consent is only 14 if the other person is younger than 21. Otherwise it's 16.
http://www.avert.org/aofconsent.htm

(n.j.)-- "...you already invaded us once..."

You're Muslim, right?

I believe your prophet insisted upon a nine-year-old wife?

Please inform us that you're just a debauched Scandinavian.....

atheist, please.

The tone of your posts and the numerous excuses you come up with(after being made a fool of) for your own stupid behavior and that of your female comrades more than justifies someone realizing that you may in-fact be a female.

Also, I find it odd that you say I should get "professional help" when you condone raping children. Whooo whee. You have better be glad we don't know each other personally...bitch.

*E-Group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/No_Feminazis/
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*"the most outrageous aspect is the total and i mean TOTAL silence from women. hell, they could care less. makes me sick." ~ donnieboy57

I'm still German, and agnostic.

p.s. do you have problems with reading? How could a muslim say religion is the second worst thing after feminism?

It's easy for that cowardly motherfucker(n.j.) to talk shit on the internet.

*E-Group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/No_Feminazis/
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*"the most outrageous aspect is the total and i mean TOTAL silence from women. hell, they could care less. makes me sick." ~ donnieboy57

You have successfully established yourself as the person most in need of immediate intense psychiatric treatment of any poster EVER ... on this site.

I really hope you have mental health insurance, because I cannot afford to make you well.

It would take too long, and would be boring as hell.

You're a kook and a troll, do you know that?

...I recall using your own statements against you numerous times. Or maybe you're just dumb. That seems more likely. You're preoccupied with stalking children.

*E-Group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/No_Feminazis/
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*"the most outrageous aspect is the total and i mean TOTAL silence from women. hell, they could care less. makes me sick." ~ donnieboy57

Ever since she has been coming here I have seen nothing but excuses from HER for women's inexcusable behavior. Just ignore the posts from her from now on. She has derailed the thread enough already. Women who act in such a manner(coming into men's forums to derail the threads) are not worth the time.

*E-Group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/No_Feminazis/
*Site and Blog: http://www.freewebs.com/nofeminazis/index.htm
*"the most outrageous aspect is the total and i mean TOTAL silence from women. hell, they could care less. makes me sick." ~ donnieboy57

Oh, you're German!

The Master Race!

My bad.

Now I understand the attitude, as well as the I.Q.

Eugenics, I believe?

While we mature as nature intended, you people never become juveniles. You stay children until you're 18 and then you directly become adults. At least that's what the law seems to say?
17 year old children. Must be genetic engineering?

We studid non-pedophiles just take offense when sick neo-nazis put out the kind of toxic vomit you espouse.

You really have as yet expressed no logic, and you are an admitted pedophile.

If you wish to redeem yourself, could you please post WHAT YOU BELIEVE constitutes the ethical, moral code of having sex with persons under the legal age in any country of origin?

Your wisdom is all that is needed.

That, and an ethical voice.

Oh, and some pretended integrity.....

First of all, you should be careful whom you call an "admitted pedophile". I'm sure slander is illegal there too.

Second, is there a way at all to get the difference between juveniles and children into your head? Maybe you should look up what pedophile means. Also, what the hell does it have to do with me. I've dated women 10 years my senior and I never liked women under 25 much. But this doesn't have a to do with anything. You should learn to detach a discussion from personal things. You should also learn how not to be an asshole.

Either way - contrary to what I said above, contacts between 14 year olds and adults ARE legal in Germany if the younger part is not "in a position of dependence". This is generally considered to be the case if the older one is a teacher. Otherwise, it's decided on an individual basis.
Unconditional age of consent is 16, as in most other European countries. Austria lowers it to 12 if the age difference isn't more than 4 years. 3 years in Switzerland.

My personal opinion is that 16 as an age of consent is reasonable.
Nonetheless, younger people are biologically mature and nature intends us to procreate, so if there is something ethically wrong with contacts between adults and sexually mature people younger than 16, it must have something to do with society (too young to be a good parent in today's world, older one abusing her/his position or greater mental maturity etc). Comparing that to pedophilia (sexual contact to sexually immature persons) is nonsense and not being done in serious research, at least not here. Still, because of differences in mental maturity, such contacts are likely to be unethical, depending on age difference.

p.s. I have surely expressed more logic than you so far. Nature itself is a pedophile because it makes people sexually mature earlier than is appropriate according to your infinite wisdom with information straight from tabloids. And Europeans of course.
Also, never mind that according to logic, men want to spread their genes and can father more children with a sexually mature wife that is as young as possible.

Well in Alberta Canada the age of consent is 14, these laws are controversial and flawed, there are lobby groups and individuals trying to change them. Though they are not in place to encourage relationships between 30 year olds and 14 yr olds but to prevent a miscarriage of justice like what happened to Generlow Wilson in Georgia. I can’t speak for Germany , but even though it is not illegal here, if a thirty year old man began openly dating a 14 year old female in Canada it would not be welcomed by the general public, it would and has in such cases that have hit the paper, caused outrage. Of course the adult women are not considered predators and the boys not considered as victims in the debates over the law. “These laws need to be changed to protect girls from men” is the popular sentiment. I personally think they need to create a time frame for ages. I don’t see why this is so hard; perhaps being over twenty negates the age of consent for those under 16 or something? How does one, or who will decide what the “right” ages are though? No matter what the ages are, female violators will receive less condemnation and less punishment than men. There is more going on here than sex with a 17 year old, it is illegal for a teacher to engage in sex with students, and if it had been a male teacher having sex with a 17 yr old female student, you can bet he gets more than a slap on the wrist. I think this is Carey’s point.

I tire of reading through the pissing contests on this site. Your efforts could be better placed towards actually contributing to the men's rights movement, you know.

We tend to think that the laws passed by our own government are the gold standard in what is right and what is wrong. This is common for every country (that I'm aware of). Take a little perspective from each other and realize, there is nothing wrong with the thinking of either of you, Roy or n. j. What your governments have enforced is the norm for you, and therefore what you feel to be right.

MrReality, too often when I read what you have to say I sense a lot of hate. I think maybe you actually DO need some therapy. The men's rights movement does NOT need to become another hate movement. The answer to a hate group is not another hate group.

Been here for years and it happens every now and then. A few radicals appear and attack everyone whom they think is out of line. Like in a Stalinist party where you have to prove you support the party's ideals. Or like the Two Minutes Hate in Orwell's 1984 where you better shout loud enough at the image of Emanuel Goldstein, the "enemy of the people". The net seems to be a playground for such people. I don't play this game, I don't preach to the choir. This ticks them off. But you can bet that I am as frustrated as they are, I just learned to control it which is an absolutely necessary step to achieve anything.

About laws, your assumption is wrong in my case. I consider a lot of my country's laws stupid, and I'm always very critical of governments.
But in this case I simply think of what's natural. Once a woman had her first period, it would make no sense if she wasn't attractive to men from a biological point of view. She can simply bear more children in her lifetime than someone older.
Now, a lot of bad things are natural, and it is also human nature to bring all this into shape. On this basis, it can be discussed if sexual maturity is enough for a relationship to an older person.
However, shouting this "pedophile" bs and starting with ad hominem attacks is not civilized discussion and also doesn't make sense because the term refers to prepuberal children. It was coined by Krafft-Ebbing in his famous work Psychopathia Sexualis. The tendency in English speaking countries to misuse it for contact with juveniles seems to be pretty unique and a cultural peculiarity apparently connected to prudishness for which the US are notorious here and often mocked for.

This is one of the typical subjects where discussions between Europeans and Americans tend to get out of hand due to cultural differences. Other such subjects are guns (where the stupidity is on our side, in my opinion) and the welfare state vs. the US model.

Roberts should simply have taken one of the cases that would have been a crime anywhere in the western world. Unfortunately there's more than enough of them.

i could be wrong but raising the age of consent might also create another sort of false accusation.

it's not directly a false accusation per se but there could be some girls who lie about their age so they can get laid.

of course, not all of them will be good at lying about it but if one of em is convincing enough, it's obviously the guy who'll have accusations of pedophilia to deal with.

I tire of reading through the pissing contests on this site.

Then STOP reading them and spare us the pontificating Reverend.

I could care less what you and the he-she thinks of me. Try sticking with the topic from now on or just stay out of the conversation. Your weak opinion is just that, an opinion. No more. It does not make me nor break me in the least.

Try worrying about how women have been spanking your sorry ass for 40+ years as opposed to what another man on an MRA site is saying about females.

*E-Group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/No_Feminazis/
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*"the most outrageous aspect is the total and i mean TOTAL silence from women. hell, they could care less. makes me sick." ~ donnieboy57

...from a thread about "Women being above the law"?

I swear this joker sounds more and more like one of the feminists.

*E-Group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/No_Feminazis/
*Site and Blog: http://www.freewebs.com/nofeminazis/index.htm
*"the most outrageous aspect is the total and i mean TOTAL silence from women. hell, they could care less. makes me sick." ~ donnieboy57

> The answer to a hate group is not another hate group.

Sure. The answer is getting rid of that hate group without any hate in the heart. With cold blood and clear mind.

OMG! )) I just read through the discussion in this topic.

n.j., you need to take into account that in US a couple of months ago a man was put in jail for 200 (TWO HUNDREDS) years for having 20 child porno photos on his computer. You may understand now why male Americans suddenly began to publicly express such extreme intolerance to anything what even remotely connected with sex with women younger than 18. ))

..in which he talks about killing of the unborn child.

..and you find it necessary to start a cry lobbying for abortion? He doesn't talk about it so much as point it out--in one measly sentence--to show how unfair women's privileges truly are. It's a small example, yet one you seem to be extremely focused on. Again, the thread focuses on "women being above the law", as does the article, not on backing up feminist belief in abortion.

Trying to explain that to a woman is like trying to get cows to fly though so I'll just ignore your subtle feminist/pro-female remarks from now on.

*E-Group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/No_Feminazis/
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*"the most outrageous aspect is the total and i mean TOTAL silence from women. hell, they could care less. makes me sick." ~ donnieboy57

These numbers you guys using are getting confusing. I don't know that the U.S. is a "Puritan" atmosphere, but a 16 or 17-year old is no longer a child in my opinion, even thogh still a minor under the law. For example, I think it is okay for a 17-year old to have sex with a 16-year old, at least in some states; and I agree with that philosophy. Also it is a well-known though poorly-understood phenomenon, the fact that over the last few decades, girls have been maturing physically earlier than in the past. With physical maturity often psychological maturity follows. It is not as if the two are totally separate.
I hope someone doesn't take this out of context and say, that I'm advocating sex between minors and adults; not to mention that it's against the law, although I think the penalty is less if the young person is 14 or over (though still a severe penalty as we all know - at least when the adult is a man).

-ax

"You should learn to detach a discussion from personal things. You should also learn how not to be an asshole."
ha ha!, that is funny :-> it cracks me up!!

It's not like the drinking age for example which falls under provincial jurisdiction and subsequently is different depending on the province you are in. This is one area of the law that Canada differs from the USA as in the USA age of consent is under the jurisdiction of the State.

However, part of Mr Harpers campaign platform to get elected Prime Minister was that he was going to raise the age of consent to 16. His Conservative party has twice since he has been in power put forward legislation to raise the age of consent to 16 and in both cases it has been rejected by the 3 main opposition parties. The first time because there was no 'Romeo & Juliet' clause and the second time because the scheme they came up with for the handling of 'Romeo & Juliet' cases was to complicated and not clear and the opposition feared a charter challenge due to the unclear language as well as a flood of new cases filling up the courts.

I agree with what you're saying. But I think what n.j. is getting at is consensual sex / relationships, not predatory behaviour. Predatory behaviour against children is clearly a crime. N.J. is bringing up the fuzzy line where people are mature, making conscious decisions, close to, but under 18. He's questioning why these cases need to be emphasized when there are many cases where clearly illegal, immoral, predatory behaviour is occuring. I think that's reasonable.

One note on American popular history that I think fits into the context here...
Jerry Lee Lewis. Married his 13 y/o cousin when he was 23 (second/third cousin twice removed). There was a scandal, but it was legal.

"for a man from his time and place, however, marrying at thirteen and marrying one's third cousin (twice removed) were both fairly commonplace occurrances"

info

This points out that that the laws in America once tolerated much lower age of consent. So I don't think anyone should be feeling morally superior on this issue based only on nationality. You could argue that those attitudes have changed and that that's for the better; but then the kind of witch hunt mentality you're raising in your post negates that... :)